Talk:Witness (Katy Perry album)/Archive 1

Break

 * I think moved it into mainspace.--Jennica  ✿ / talk 15:49, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I know, but Snuggums did the most work. f  e  minist  15:53, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Jennica, the nomination is transcluded at Template:Did you know nominations/Witness (Katy Perry album). Feel free to comment there before it concludes. Snuggums (talk / edits) 15:56, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 May 2017
Add Onika Maraj to the writer list for the song Swish Swish. She has written her own verse. Source: [Apple Music] [Young Money Label, via mail] 213.160.196.82 (talk) 08:34, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
 * ❌ Source? — I B  [ Poke ] 09:32, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 May 2017
In the track listing section, add the lengths of the tracks and the producers which are given at this link here: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAiUQ1sXoAAa247.jpg Beary126 (talk) 05:14, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
 * ❌, a screenshot is not a reliable source. — I B  [ Poke ] 05:15, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 May 2017
I need to add the tracklist Thacker101 (talk) 21:27, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
 * it hasn't been officially confirmed and I know some fans got to go a listening party but we need a URL source that's reputable, aka iTunes or on Katy's site/twitter. --Jennica ✿ / talk 22:03, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Swish replaced Bon Appetit as a single
_ According to Music Aggregator Billboard. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Beachey23 (talk • contribs) 15:35, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
 * That's a misleading statement; what the ref actually states is how "Swish Swish" is "the single that Capitol Records is now promoting to pop radio". It just means that her label is focusing on that song instead. Furthermore, songs can only be "replaced" or cancelled as singles BEFORE their commercial release, not after it already has taken place. Snuggums (talk / <b style="color:#454545">edits</b>) 15:43, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Okay, makes sense. Thank you so much.--Beachey23 (talk) 19:27, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
 * --<span style="font-weight:bold;font-variant:small-caps;color:#FFFFFF;background-color:#F49259;letter-spacing:1pt;">Jennica ✿ / talk 18:07, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

im fan of her since 2008 and no it was not replaced

bon appétit was a huge flop. katy expected that the single would debut as a HOT SHOT in the hot 100 but we know that it did not and therefore its a flop

swish swish was released as the third single from that album — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.247.246.13 (talk) 15:18, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

Composition
Good article from Herald Sun can be used for developing the composition section. — I B  [ <b style="font-family:Tempus Sans ITC;color:#1C1CF0;">Poke</b> ] 07:22, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

Please add Witness' Review from Idolator to Critical Reception section
Dear editor(s),

Please add the Review from Idolator, which is Positive (4/5) to Critical Reception section. http://www.idolator.com/7664420/katy-perry-witness-album-review

Thank you :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Basyirun90 (talk • contribs) 01:28, 10 June 2017 (UTC)
 * ✅ thank you for providing the link. <b style="color:#454545">Snuggums</b> (<b style="color:#454545">talk</b> / <b style="color:#454545">edits</b>) 04:12, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

Save as Draft needs a page
"Save as Draft" deserves a page! It's a single. Why there isn't a page about "Save as Draft"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ira di Urabrask (talk • contribs)
 * Single release (or lack thereof) isn't an automatic indicator of whether a song warrants its own page. If there are no good sources outside of album reviews and artist/label/producer/songwriter commentary that go into much detail on the track itself (which could mean the article isn't likely to grow beyond a stub), then it shouldn't have it's own article per WP:Notability (music). The only good reference I can find so far with any decent amount of detail that's not part of an album review is this piece from Idolator. One good source alone isn't enough for its own page I'm afraid, and any article on the song definitely is unlikely to grow beyond a stub at the moment. <b style="color:#454545">Snuggums</b> (<b style="color:#454545">talk</b> / <b style="color:#454545">edits</b>) 13:26, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Witness has sold 528,000 copies in China and was certified 5x platinum
As of now, Witness already sold 528,000 copies in China and was certified 5x platinum. Here is the source for the sales - https://y.qq.com/n/yqq/album/0049G4ZJ03LeoA.html The reference was already used in the article of List of best-selling albums in China. For the certification, I can't find the official site where you can see the certification of the album. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ShaneFilaner (talk • contribs) 17:24, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not really familiar with the site, so can't comment on whether it is usable, but it either way seems incomplete to add a nation's sales without any knowledge of the chart. <b style="color:#454545">Snuggums</b> (<b style="color:#454545">talk</b> / <b style="color:#454545">edits</b>) 03:55, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Fan source. ShaneFilaner after all this time you have no idea of what's right and reliable, please do a favour and don't add anything. — I B  [ <b style="font-family:Tempus Sans ITC;color:#1C1CF0;">Poke</b> ] 08:08, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I know that are different articles, but I asked to the main user that made the list of the best-selling albums in China and he answered. So technically, in his answer, is an appropriate source. Chrishonduras  (<small style="color:#FF0000;">Diskussion ) 20:04, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Please note any certification by QQ is not an official certification. Its just a vendor/retailer like how iTunes used to be for US. So any sales reported from it are for that particular vendor only which we do not report. — I B  [ <b style="font-family:Tempus Sans ITC;color:#1C1CF0;">Poke</b> ] 16:33, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Agree with you. Even if they have a mention in IFPI, the certifications (and sales) are unofficial. Because we have an article called "best-selling albums in China", new albums gonna be add with this source and users gonna ask in their own talk pages. Probably with the time this source gonna be add in sources to avoid. Chrishonduras (<small style="color:#FF0000;">Diskussion ) 18:15, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

i m Katy perry fan since late 2008 and i admit its not official. it s impossible that the album sold 528,000 copies in china. nope. no single is known from that album — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.247.246.13 (talk) 15:14, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 July 2017
Hello,

I am requesting that an additional review be added to the 'critical reception' section of this page. The review is by Music Mania (Musicmania.org.uk) and here is the link to the review: http://musicmania.org.uk/2017/07/05/review-katy-perry-witness/

The review is 3.5 stars, album has 90s vibes, is good but not purposeful pop.

82.19.199.21 (talk) 08:33, 5 July 2017 (UTC)


 * ❌, does not seem to be a reliable source. And there are enough reviews present in the section. — I B  [ <b style="font-family:Tempus Sans ITC;color:#1C1CF0;">Poke</b> ] 09:59, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

New source peaked from Taiwan
Hello,

I am requesting that an additional review be added to the 'Chart' section of this page. The review is by Five music (5music.com.tw) and here is the link to the review: https://web.archive.org/web/20170709053016/https://www.5music.com.tw/CDTop.asp?top=6 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.36.99.135 (talk) 03:55, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
 * per WP:Record charts. That site is a retailer, not an official chart. <b style="color:#454545">Snuggums</b> (<b style="color:#454545">talk</b> / <b style="color:#454545">edits</b>) 04:06, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

“Save as Draft” single?
Save as Draft is only a promotional single to the Adult Pop Radio. Katy never said that this song will be a single. There is no promotion or something like that. Maxgoldman12334 (talk) 10:59, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
 * No, we never did get an announcement from KP or her label Capitol Records. Promotion isn't required for something to be a single, though it would seem out of character for her and Capitol to never promote a single release to any extent or even say anything on the matter. As I previously noted here, it looks like any AC release wasn't officially a single release with multiple references from this past August calling "Swish Swish" the "latest" single from this album after the supposed AC release. Unless some announcement or other solid evidence to the contrary comes along within the next week, I'll remove that listing accordingly. Either way, I don't know if calling that a promotional release is appropriate when we don't have any citations refer to it as such. <b style="color:#009900">Snuggums</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 14:00, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 October 2017
save as draft is not an official single off "Witness." I believe it should be removed? Popfan312 (talk) 19:00, 21 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: @Popfan312: I see sources in the article that say it was released as a single. What are your sources that say it wasn't released? —C.Fred (talk) 19:02, 21 October 2017 (UTC)


 * See the above thread. The fact that Exclaim!, Fuse, and even Billboard pieces from back in August call "Swish Swish" this album's "latest" single indicates that the AC release "Save as Draft" had in June wasn't an official single release. Unless somebody can provide solid evidence that it actually was or is going to be (i.e. a solo physical/digital release or perhaps a mainstream radio release) within the next 24 hours, I'll remove that as misleading. <b style="color:#009900">Snuggums</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 19:11, 21 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Since nothing solid has come along since my previous comments, I'm now removing it so readers don't get the wrong idea. Feel free to restore later on IF a solo physical/digital purchase comes along or maybe a release to mainstream radios. <b style="color:#009900">Snuggums</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 20:23, 22 October 2017 (UTC)


 * I'm restoring "Save as Draft" back as a single. The interpretation of the above sources is textbook WP:SYNTH. There's sources indicating a radio release. Chase (talk &#124; contributions) 16:04, 28 October 2017 (UTC)


 * The point isn't about whether any radio release occurred; it's that the AC premiere wasn't an official single release. A solo CD/download release (and probably debuting on mainstream radio) would've been a different case. I don't see how/why the linked publications would call "Swish Swish" the album's "latest" single AFTER that AC debut occurred if it was actually official. While an article saying something like "Witness had three singles; 'Chained to the Rhythm', 'Bon Appétit', and 'Swish Swish'" would be nice to have, I'm not so sure WP:SYNTH applies here as that's more about ADDING conclusions into pages not inferred by references instead of removing text. <b style="color:#009900">Snuggums</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 16:27, 28 October 2017 (UTC)


 * It wasn't a "premiere" though, it was an add date. And I would imagine some sources referred to "Swish Swish" as the latest single because "Save as Draft" was so under the radar that perhaps the writer wasn't even aware of it. In fact, here's one of the Billboard editors tweeting about its release to adult radio. Chase (talk &#124; contributions) 20:11, 28 October 2017 (UTC)


 * I have seen that tweet and can understand why people would think it's a release in the way other songs are, but what concerns me is how another Billboard article (see above) said differently. It doesn't seem likely that someone from the same organization would be unaware of whether something is officially released or not. For what it's worth, Gary later sent another tweet indicating the AC release (regardless of whether it counts as an official single release) wasn't intended for pop radio (which I believe is synonymous with mainstream radio). <b style="color:#009900">Snuggums</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 20:36, 28 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Because the single only went to adult contemporary and adult pop radio. It wasn't sent to top 40. Chase (talk &#124; contributions) 01:40, 29 October 2017 (UTC)


 * In case it wasn't clear before, what I'm getting at is that—especially after seeing the pieces I linked—I'm not convinced that only going to AC/adult pop radio counts as an official single release. <b style="color:#009900">Snuggums</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 02:22, 29 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Why wouldn't it? It's the same as a single only going to urban radio, or only country radio. Top 40 isn't the only radio format. Chase (talk &#124; contributions) 17:52, 29 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Because mainstream radio tends to be the most clear cut form of single release of all radio formats in that they don't simply play tracks just because they have access to the parent album. Also, the lack of solo purchase (not counting downloads/streams as an album track) made me have my doubts, and it's best to have artist and/or label confirmation on whether something is being released as a single. <b style="color:#009900">Snuggums</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 18:03, 29 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Any radio format, including mainstream radio, can and does play any song they choose to. Taylor Swift's "Ready for It" debuted on top 40 radio the same week it was released, despite not being released as an official single until recently. Katy Perry's "Dark Horse" got unsolicited airplay which prompted its single release. We have sources indicating the song was released to radio, there's no reason to just ignore those. Chase (talk &#124; contributions) 22:46, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

To "just ignore" them implies they were never even looked at let alone examined against anything. Seeing the aforementioned "latest" single dubbings for "Swish Swish" after AC release is what have me even more doubts than I already had about it being official when there wasn't any artist/label confirmation or an individual physical/digital release. It made me take prior statements with a grain of salt. As for "Dark Horse" and "Ready for It?", something to keep in mind for those other tracks are that they each had their own digital release independent of parent albums, regardless of airplay (albiet as promotional singles at first). I perhaps should've been more explicit in that "album track" also excluded promotional single releases, and that conventional radio doesn't nearly as often (if ever) play things that are simply album cuts as official or even promotional singles. More obscure stations are more likely to do so from what I know. <b style="color:#009900">Snuggums</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 23:48, 29 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Pop radio is no different than any other radio format aside from the style of music played. Every radio station has the choice to play singles, promotional tracks, or deep album cuts. Most go with singles for business reasons, i.e. it attracts the most listeners. And I don't think the "Swish Swish" as the latest disproves anything, only suggests that "Save as Draft" was such a low-key release that even some writers weren't aware of it. You can open an RFC if you want but I don't see very many other ways to interpret the information other than that "Save as Draft" was clearly serviced to a specific radio format. Chase (talk &#124; contributions) 16:13, 30 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Even if there was a specific radio release, I wouldn't go so far to say it was a full-fledged single release in the way that those released to mainstream radio are or songs individually serviced to retailers (whether online or in person). <b style="color:#009900">Snuggums</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 16:40, 30 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Radio add dates are for single releases only. With digital downloads already in place, multiple songs can be for single releases. "...Ready for It?" was still a single when it went for official radio adds, and "Gorgeous" was changed to a promo single when the radio adds date was pulled the plug from it. — I B  [ <b style="font-family:Tempus Sans ITC;color:#1C1CF0;">Poke</b> ] 05:19, 1 November 2017 (UTC)