Talk:Women in Vietnam

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Brittany Lai. Peer reviewers: Rjpg12, Sa49.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 04:58, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Revising this Article
I will be updating this article for a class assignment. Does anyone have any suggestions for specific areas that need improvement/updating, or other sections you would like to see added? On that note, are there any sections of this article that you think need serious revision?

My current plan is to update old statistics, add a section about the influence of the Vietnam War on women’s rights in the present day, and add more text to the section called “Human Rights.” For my contribution to the Human Rights section, I will talk about women’s involvement in politics and reproductive rights. I will focus on middle and upper-class women’s involvement in professional jobs (so I will look at women workers in business jobs, not menial laborers or sex workers) in a new section called “Women in the Workforce.” My idea for this section came from Nicolevnguyen’s suggestion. Does anyone have any ideas for specific segments of society I should talk about (i.e. women in different regions of Vietnam, class groups, or income categories)?

Lastly, I agree with those who mentioned the bias of this article. What can I do to make this article less biased, less seen through the eyes of the Western world? Kimmyfromtexas (talk) 19:22, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

The whole page sounds like a student paper as is, there is WAY too much opinion/perception here, even in the opening paragraph. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.208.133.77 (talk) 19:30, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Nice!
Thanks for your efforts on putting this article together—looks like a great start. --dragfyre_ ʞןɐʇ c 21:14, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Propaganda and biased
The first paragraph reads like a propaganda piece, totally neglecting the other side of the story. The second paragraph is off by hundreds if not thousands of years. Wife-buying, kidnapping, rape, etc did not just start in the 1980s. This article needs serious rework and should never have made it to DYK. BarkingMoon (talk) 12:45, 7 May 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree that the article is totally inadequate; it's basically just a random selection of facts about Vietnamese women. I did see this on the Suggestions page and had some suspicions about it but never got around to checking it out.


 * Given the number of DYK controversies I was involved in through the last week however, I have absolutely no desire to get involved in another one right now. I suggest you ask User:Materialscientist to take a look at the article, or else place a request at WT:DYK. Gatoclass (talk) 12:56, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * After reading the article, I've pulled its DYK hook off the main page. The article is indeed rather unbalanced and sketchy and does not fit to its name. The first part about the war has no relation whatsoever with the second part, on bride trafficking. Materialscientist (talk) 13:40, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Good call.BarkingMoon (talk) 13:51, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, it technically went live on main page still. So credit should be given. - AnakngAraw (talk) 13:55, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * It went there by mistake and was pulled off 90 min late because of slow reaction. It is surely disappointing, because you might have improved the article if this was raised earlier, but this happens, and I'm sure you have many more DYK credits ahead. Cheers. Materialscientist (talk) 14:00, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm going to try to eliminate a lot of the bias in this article. Any suggestions about how to do that? Are there particular sections that seem more biased, or phrases I should take out?Kimmyfromtexas (talk) 19:48, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Suggestions
I think this is a great article, but I think the article would benefit if a section was added that detailed the roles of Vietnamese women in the modern workforce. Nicolevnguyen (talk) 21:09, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Hey, I just wanted to let you know that I'm going to work on this part of the article! I will focus on middle and upper-class women’s involvement in professional jobs (so I will look at women workers in business jobs, not menial laborers or sex workers) in a new section called “Women in the Workforce.” Any particular suggestions for it? Which aspects of women's roles in the modern workforce should I focus on? Kimmyfromtexas (talk) 19:46, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Peer Review
I think your article is very strong, and has a lot of good information. I really liked some of the precise information you gave, such as the statistics under the "Women's Roles in the Vietnam War" section and the information about the Gender Inequality Index. The main areas that I think you could continue to expand on are the introduction and the Gender Relations in Post-War Vietnam section. The Post-War Vietnam section left me with a few questions, such as why women were able to "take on leadership roles" after the reunification, or why women were "confident" that they would one day be liberated. I also thought that your article could benefit from a few more links. it seemed like all of the links to other articles were in the "Human rights" section, but there are certainly many opportunities to link to other pages such as the Trung sisters page. Avw1 (talk) 02:37, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Overall I think that this article is great. You touched base with various aspects of the topic such as the Historical content and the Gender Relations section. My suggestions for a better article would be to provide more in-depth on Gender relations in Post-war Vietnam as well as provide more aspects of the sociological aspect of the argument. Another good subtopic would be Women's health or economic position. You provided solid information and a pretty good amount of blue links in the last sections. Also, the introduction could be expanded a bit to provide a better overview of women in Vietnam. Cristell24 (talk) 12:54, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Will contribute further information on women in the Republic of Vietnam, and Thai pirate abuses and violence against women in the Boat People refugee crisis, in the near future.
Time permitting. Article has almost no information on South Vietnamese women, and certainly women in the South had far greater freedoms and emancipation than the Northern populace. Nguyễn Quốc Việt (talk) 09:21, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

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Proposition for article revisions
Hi all,

As part of a class assignment at my university, I am interested in possibly making revisions and expansions to this article, namely the section titled "Contemporary Societal Influences" (which I am also interested in renaming, as I'm not sure if it fully fits the content it describes). I would like to add information expanding upon the societal view upon women, mortality rates, and potentially the rise of sex-selective abortions (though I'm not sure yet where that would fit). In addition, I would like to improve the language of the overall article, as well as add statistics that can be found and are relevant, presented in more visually-appealing tables perhaps. Please let me know if you have any suggestions for improvement or feedback, it would be greatly appreciated! Brittany Lai (talk) 05:27, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Potential sources
As a follow-up to my post above, below is an annotated bibliography I have constructed for the sources I plan to use in revising this article. Please leave any suggestions and feedback you have; it would be greatly appreciated! Further detail about my plans, additions, and revisions are available on my sandbox and user page.

1.   Higgins, R. (2015). Is It My Job to Make Him Care? Middle-Class Women and Gender Inequality in Ho Chi Minh City. Anthropology of Work Review, 36(2), 74-86. doi:10.1111/awr.12069

This article by Higgins will help to expand a new Economy sub-section, under "Contemporary societal influences" with its detailing of middle-class women in Vietnam and their expected economic roles. Higgins conducts an ethnographic study of women in Vietnam while writing about the women navigating throughout their professional lives, as well as their wages, hours worked, and more. Higgins's synopsis and study would help to provide an insightful and unique perspective to this article. Information from this study could also expand the information on women's domestic role, which I plan to include under a new Family sub-section.

2.   Kelly, K. (2000). The higher education system in Vietnam. World Education News and Reviews, 13(3), 5-6.

This article gives a general overview of the education system in Vietnam, including statistics pertaining to the amount of teachers and students in the system and educational budget. The article further continues on to describe literacy rates in the country and trends amongst females and males. In addition to outlining the various stipulations of the education system in Vietnam, Kelly points out different statistics specific to women as well, such as age limits for women in higher institutions. These details will help to expand the short Education sub-section under "Contemporary societal influences" to include more relevant information.

3.   Kelly, K. (2009). Obliged to Mother, Required to Retire: Gender, Class, Equality and Retirement Rights in Vietnam. Conference Papers -- American Sociological Association, 1.

This source outlines retirement rights for women in Vietnam and the stipulations attached in pertinence to their Domestic and economic role. Therefore, this source is relevant to the project at hand in its contribution to the Family and Economy subsection. Included in this article, Kelly outlines arguments by Vietnamese women laborers for earlier retirement ages and by other women for equal retirement ages.

4.   Kelly, K. (2011, October). Vietnam case study (preliminary findings): Women in educational leadership and management. In A paper presented during the Gender Equality in Education: Looking beyond parity. An IIEP evidence based policy forum held in Paris between (pp. 3-4).

The information found in this source would help contribute to the Education and Politics subsection of the "Contemporary societal influences" section of this article. Kelly describes the percentages of women participating in politics and the leadership positions they hold. Furthermore, Kelly outlines current plans by Vietnamese government to improve women representation, such as the National Strategy on Gender Equality. Part of these efforts involve increased training and curriculum, as well as increasing women representation in the education sector of Vietnam society.

5.   Knodel, J., Vu Manh, L., Jayakody, R., & Vu Tuan, H. (2005). GENDER ROLES IN THE FAMILY. Asian Population Studies,1(1), 69-92. doi:10.1080/17441730500125888

This source outlines a study performed on numerous married families in the Red River Delta region of Vietnam. Through this study, the authors explore Vietnamese women's domestic role in the family unit, and various tasks and responsibilities that are expected of them. This source will help to expand the Family subsection of this article, specifically pertaining to women's domestic role.

6.   Larsen, J. J. (2010). Migration and people trafficking in southeast Asia. Trends & Issues In Crime & Criminal Justice, (401), 1-6.

Larsen describes human trafficking trends across southeast Asian countries, including exploitation, rough statistics, and data on trafficking by gender. Larsen details of general trends and practices across destination and source countries in southeast Asia ("push" and "pull" countries), and I believe this information can be pertinent to the human trafficking section already existent on this article.

7.   Pham, B. N., Hall, W., Hill, P. S., & Rao, C. (2008). Analysis of socio-political and health practices influencing sex ratio at birth in Viet Nam. Reproductive Health Matters, 16(32), 176-184.

The information in this source would help contribute to the new Child mortality subsection I plan to create under the "Contemporary societal influences" subsection. The authors of this article detail the influence sex-selective abortions and Vietnam's two-child policy have on sex ratios at birth in Vietnam. Furthermore, they outline various other factors that could influence a shifting of the sex ratio.

8.   Pham, T., Kooreman, P., Koning, R., & Wiersma, D. (2013). Gender patterns in Vietnam's child mortality. Journal Of Population Economics, 26(1), 303-322.

This article studies child mortality rates in Vietnam, with a specific focus on gender differences. The authors describe trends and declines in child mortality rates over the past years, as well as child mortality rates by gender-- specifically, how they are affected by the education levels of each parent. I plan to use this source to add to my subsection on child mortality.

9.   Sen, A. (2003). Missing women—revisited: Reduction in female mortality has been counterbalanced by sex selective abortions. BMJ : British Medical Journal, 327(7427), 1297–1298.

This article outlines the relationship between female mortality, sex ratios, and sex-selective abortions-- phenomenons familiar to Asian regions. Sen proposes that while female mortality rates are declining, practices of sex-selective abortions are increasing, which can in turn affect sex ratios. The intersectionality between all these issues is an interesting and intuitive point I want to include within the child mortality section in order to tie everything together.

10.   Schuler, S. R. (2006). Constructions of gender in Vietnam: in pursuit of the 'three criteria'. Culture, Health And Sexuality,8(5), 383-394.

This source examines grassroots-level political activity in Vietnam towards women and gender equality advancement. Furthermore, Schuler identifies general trends and improvements Vietnamese legislation has made towards improving gender equality, especially relative to other Asian countries. This analysis continues on to place special focus on the Vietnam Women's Union and their political ventures. I believe this source would be highly relevant to the politics subsection I plan to add to this article.

11.   Teerawichitchainan, B., Knodel, J., Vu Manh, L., & Vu Tuan, H. (2010). The Gender Division of Household Labor in Vietnam: Cohort Trends and Regional Variations. Journal Of Comparative Family Studies, 41(1), 57-85.

This study looks at trends in improvements and failures political development in Vietnam have made towards women's domestic role in the family and the responsibilities expected of them. Included in this study is an analysis gender roles in Vietnam, including critiques and acknowledgements where they are justified. The study and analysis included in this source is relevant to family subsection of this article.

12.   Truong Thi Thuy, H. (2008). Women's Leadership in Vietnam: Opportunities and Challenges. Signs: Journal Of Women In Culture & Society, 34(1), 16-21.

Truong's work in this article further expands upon efforts Vietnamese government has made towards gender equity in the political realm. Specifically, Truong focuses on improvements in women representation in high leading positions in Vietnam, such as detailing efforts at instituting a gender quota for Vietnam's National Assembly. I plan to include the information and statistics presented in this study towards the politics subsection I plan to add.

13.   Vu, H. S. (2014). Divorce in the context of domestic violence against women in Vietnam. Culture, Health & Sexuality, 16(6), 634-647.

This paper outlines problems of domestic violence and divorce within Vietnam, an issue I want to expand on within this article. There is already a short section dedicated to domestic violence in this article, so I plan to add supplementary material from this source to make the section more informative. This paper offers a variety of statistics concluding that domestic violence is a significant issue in Vietnam, as well as explanations as to why this issue might be suppressed by many women.

14.   Waibel, G., & Glück, S. (2013). More than 13 million: mass mobilisation and gender politics in the Vietnam Women's Union. Gender & Development, 21(2), 343-361. doi:10.1080/13552074.2013.802148

This paper expands further on the Vietnam Women's Union, with this organization being the prime focus of analysis. Waibel traces their advocation for women empowerment and how it extends into actual policy developments and societal advancement. More specifically, this paper places the actual union under the microscope and looks at their objectives, membership, and so forth. This subject is highly relevant to politics in Vietnam and would serve a great addition to the related information available in Schuler's paper (source #10).

Brittany Lai (talk) 06:23, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Peer Review
Brittany, your contributions to this page look excellent! I am especially impressed with your work on the “domestic violence” section – you maintain a neutral point of view, give a comprehensive overview of the topic, and cite multiple reliable scholarly sources. Two areas that I think could use some more work are images and neutrality. There is currently only one image on this page, which is not enough for an article of this length. You could easily add images to the “education”, “economy”, and “Vietnam Women’s Union” sections. A far as neutrality goes, you may want to reconsider some of your wording in the “Vietnam Women’s Union” section. Specifically, your voice shines through in the claim that Confucian values “keep a male-dominated hierarchy in place”. People who have a less individualistic or feminist worldview may view the Confucian basis for the VWU very differently, as a positive or neutral force. Giving more attention to these perspectives can help keep your article balanced and neutral. Overall, though, great job! I look forward to seeing you continue to develop and improve this page. Rjpg12 (talk) 21:19, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

I'm very happy to see a rigorous approach to this topic. If I may make suggestions, I would be interested in more statistics concerning the average age of women getting married, having children. Consider the "Selected determinants of fertility in vietnam: age at marriage, marriage to first birth interval and age at first birth" article to bolster the Family section. I was also interested in media portrayal of women, but I've not been able to find a good primary reference for it yet. Perhaps you'll have better luck, but the general idea is the reinforcement of gender roles through media where women are often portrayed as docile, obedient, etc. Best wishes! yellowtailshark (talk) 03:43, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi yellowtailshark, thank you so much for your feedback! I love your suggestions and I will definitely keep them in mind and try to find sources to add the relevant information to the article. If you find anything else you would like to add, please feel free to! My ultimate goal is to get the status of this article raised to a B. Thanks, and take care! Brittany Lai (talk) 15:23, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Peer review
Hi Brittany! Well done on expanding this article. I think your restructuring of this article and sections added really helped the organization and readability. Particularly, I appreciate the “Sex ratio” section that you have added. Before you started working on this article, there was only information on sex-selective abortion, but to place it under the more general “Sex ratio” heading gives it context and makes the implications of sex-selective abortions apparent. While your content is great in many places, your article still does not have a lead section. This should be included in the next round of edits as the lead section previews an article and follows the Wikipedia format. Including a lead section is the most important thing to be changed in the article. In addition to this, more images and scholarly references need to be used. In general, great work and I am excited to see the next contribution! Sa49 (talk) 18:20, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Brittany, I am happy to see the lead section of this article well-developed and representative of your restructuring of the article. Particularly, I appreciate the new images added as well. The image of the traditional wedding ceremony is fascinating to see. While these new edits improved your article, there still are sourcing issues. The first few paragraphs of the lead section need extensive sourcing to provide backing for the history and claims. I think this is the most important change to make for your next contribution because you also do not have a minimum of 15 scholarly sources. In general, great work with development of the lead sections and I am excited to see the next contribution! Sa49 (talk) 04:45, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

Peer Review 2
Hi Brittany! The work you've done on this article looks really good. Your images are much better, as is your lead section. The lead section is now fully representative of the content of the entire article, and is much more complex and well-written. This is really coming along to be a high quality article. I really only have minor suggestions at this point. First, I think your lead section could be a little more concise. It will be challenging to make it less wordy without taking out the meaning, but I think you can do it. Also, I would still like to see alternative perspectives on the VWU. Finally, you still need a few more scholarly references to make it to the 15 we're required to have. Great work! Rjpg12 (talk) 21:42, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

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Orphaned references in Women in Vietnam
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Reference named "nghiamvo-1623": From Mekong Delta:  From Names of Ho Chi Minh City:  From Ho Chi Minh City:  

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