Talk:Women in the Montana government

Original research
There are several sentences within the body of the article that do have citations, but the the sources do not accurately reflect the corresponding sentences and may contain original research. In addition, the article may appear to be an essay written for academic purposes. --PerpetuityGrat (talk) 00:10, 11 January 2022 (UTC)


 * I have cut all the argumentative and unsourced claims from this article. Now I just think it needs to be renamed, per my comment below. Cielquiparle (talk) 15:40, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Pay equity
I'm not sure that the lead sentence about pay equity ought to be included in this article at all. The scope of the article is by and large [elected and appointed] Women in the Montana government. The pay equity statement speaks more broadly, and doesn't relate to any of the sections. I'm assuming the legislative, judicial, and executive-level salaries that are relevant to this article are statutorily set. --PerpetuityGrat (talk) 15:37, 23 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Yes agree, have deleted. Can we keep this article now? Cielquiparle (talk) 15:42, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
 * No need to be snippy. I'm not working tirelessly to get this article deleted or anything. ? --PerpetuityGrat (talk) 15:43, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
 * No snippiness intended. I was just wondering what the next steps are. (My first experience with AfD. To be clear, I 100% agree it was problematic before, but think it's kind of OK now, except the title.) Do we need to canvass all the relevant projects to review and comment? Cielquiparle (talk) 15:55, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Rename page to "Women in Montana state government"
Propose renaming page from "Women in the Montana government" (what is that, exactly?) to either "Women in Montana state government" or "Women in the Montana state government". Cielquiparle (talk) 15:38, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
 * The issue I have with this, which I referenced in the section above, is that the content of the article focuses exclusively on elected and appointed women in the Montana state government, not women in general. This article does not mention, or even come close to touching on, the 99% of women in the Montana government who are not appointed or elected. The current name of the page and proposed names do not clarify that; I don't have a particular solution to this issue unless we take it upon ourselves to do a ton of additional research. --PerpetuityGrat (talk) 15:42, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, there definitely is a SCOPE problem with this article. But I interpreted your comment above on "Pay equity" to mean that the article should continue to only address elected and appointed women in Montana state government, which is one way to bound the article. If we want to add a section for other state government employees, we can do that instead...but prefer to change the article title first. Cielquiparle (talk) 16:05, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Well this is an issue that we do need to identify; what does/should the article identify? Obviously the creator of the article solely meant to touch on elected/appointed women (because nonelected and non-appointed women aren't mentioned at all, yet the title implies otherwise). This is why I suggested merging some of the content with Montana State Government because there is no conceivable way to touch on all women in the Montana government. I still think that's the best way to solve this issue. Just move these sections with the other article. --PerpetuityGrat (talk) 16:17, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
 * In that case, this needs to be a MERGE discussion, not an AfD? Cielquiparle (talk) 16:25, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Realistically, this article is only talking about the first women to hold specific offices, if women ever ran for those offices, and if there are women holding those offices. The executive branch section (which the executive branch is comprised of many more positions that just governor, lt. governor and supt of public instruction) does touch on some of their legacies, though. --PerpetuityGrat (talk) 16:23, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
 * It's still useful information to someone who wants to look up whether women ever held those offices. I have also wondered if this is just an article that really should be a list...but I think there is some value to having the context which the article provides (which is why I didn't completely cut the U.S. Congresswoman or the county-level officials). Anyway, the article isn't perfect, but it still has useful information all in one place. Cielquiparle (talk) 16:37, 23 April 2022 (UTC)