Talk:Women warriors in literature and culture

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 12 January 2021 and 30 April 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jpatlas24. Peer reviewers: Lmlambe3, Bambiwikipawdia.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 13:09, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 20 January 2021 and 7 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Lguzman24.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 13:09, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Why is there no definition of what a woman warrior is?
Is this page necessary? I ask because after reading the archived talk-pages, the greatest weakness of this article seems to be that there is no actual definition of what a "woman warrior" actually is. There is picture of Joan of Arc, but no text to explain why she should be considered one. Also, according to the introduction, this page is about The portrayal of women warriors in literature and popular culture. Why then is there a section on archaeology and historical examples? This doesn't address the huge lack of citations and OR that's on this page.

Or are we also talking about women who actually served in combat? If so, then why is there is no mention of the Night Witches, Women's Battalion, Rani of Jhansi Regiment, Ochotnicza Legia Kobiet, Red Lanterns (Boxer Uprising), Women in the Israel Defense Forces, Women in the Pakistan Armed Forces, etc. All this information is located on Wiki, such as List of uprisings led by women, List of women who led a revolt or rebellion, Band of Sisters: American Women at War in Iraq, etc.

It seems to me that outside of having a page with the words "woman warrior" on it the information presented here can also be found on other Wiki pages, presented in a much cleaner context than what we have on this page. Beag maclir (talk) 19:09, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree the article needs work, but it seems like the Wikipedia does have an article on the key word "Warrior" that answers this question. I have created a WL to it:
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrior

-Classicfilms (talk) 17:39, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

Moving Non-Literature and Pop Culture References Here
I'm not saying this article can't include this information, but as the introduction states this is about the portrayal of women warriors in literature and pop culture, not history. As a result please put back the information if the article is changed to reflect a wider range, if editors in the future feel it is necessary. Beag maclir (talk) 15:30, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Archaeology
In the older literature, the term "warrioress", following the author/authoress pattern, was sometimes used when describing women warriors. In terms of the archaeological record, in 1997 the earliest known women warrior burial mounds were excavated in southern Russia. They were buried with their swords, daggers, arrowheads and saddles. David Anthony states, "About 20% of Scythian-Sarmatian 'warrior graves' on the lower Don and lower Volga contained females dressed for battle in the same manner as men, a phenomenon that probably inspired the Greek tales about the Amazons."

In 2004, the 2,000 year old remains of an Iranian female warrior were found in the northwestern Iranian city of Tabriz.

And ...

Historical examples


Fu Hao was one of the many wives of King Wu Ding of the Shang Dynasty and, unusually for that time, also served as a military general and high priestess.

Tomoe Gozen is believed to have been a late twelfth-century female samurai warrior (Onna-bugeisha) who may have pioneered the two-sword style made famous in the 17th century by Miyamoto Musashi.

In terms of normal women fighting as part of a regular army, one of the earliest examples known is Nusaybah bint Ka'ab; the first female to fight battles in defence of Islam and Prophet Muhammad. After her, many others followed. She took part in the Battle of Uhud, the Battle of Hunain, the Battle of Yamama and was part of the battalion deployed which consequently negotiated the Treaty of Hudaibiyah. This was over a millennium before women took active roles in modern western armies.

The daughter of a Duke, Princess Pingyang raised and commanded her own army in the revolt against the Sui Dynasty. Later, her father would become Emperor Gaozu. Artemisia I of Caria was a tyrant of Halicarnassus allied with Xerxes and commanded five ships of her own in the Battle of Salamis; though her actions in the battle are questioned by some historians, it is said that Xerxes commented after the battle, a Persian loss, that "my men have turned into women and my women into men" in compliment to Artemisia's performance. The Spartan princess Arachidamia is said to have fought Pyrrhus (of the phrase "pyrrhic victory") with a group of Spartan females under her command, and killed several soldiers before perishing, though little else is known about her. The British Queen, Boudicca, led a revolt against the Roman Empire in 60 AD but was decisively defeated at at the Battle of Watling Street. Emilia Plater was a Polish noblewoman who fought as a Captain in the November 1830 Uprising against Russia. The Roman Empire was known to sometimes have women fighting, called gladiatrix, in gladiator games.

Women leaders have not only played an important role in cultures where there is a direct analogy to the western concept of a "princess," but have also served their societies in indigenous tribal warfare and rebellion, as well. The Dahomey people, who live in western Africa also established an all female militia, who served as royal bodyguards to the king. With regard to Native American history, the majority of Native American tribes possessed respected and well established women leaders of their "militia". These female leaders determined the fate of prisoners of war among other tribal decisions. However, the Europeans and early American men refused to deal with Native American women on such matters and so their significance was not understood or appreciated until relatively recently.

In Vietnam the sisters Trung Trac and Trung Nhi led a rebel against the Han rule in 40 AD. According to folk tradition, they were joined by many woman warriors and succeeded in establishing a short live independence. Another woman warrior called Lady Trieu rose up against Eastern Wu oppression in North Vietnam. An early modern example is the Tay Son General Bui Thi Xuan who led an army in the age of gunpowder.

In South Asia and the Indian Subcontinent, the concept of a "woman warrior" exists both in mythology and in history, and there are records of women who have led armies into battle. Rani Lakshmibai of Jhansi was one of the leading figures of the Indian Rebellion of 1857 and was described by the British as "remarkable for her beauty, cleverness and perseverance", and that she had been "the most dangerous of all the rebel leaders". Unniyarcca was a famed warrior princess who lived in south Indian state of Kerala during the 16th century. Kittur Chennamma, queen of the princely state of Kittur led a rebellion against the British decades before the 1857 uprising.

Indonesia counts a number of female warriors among its National Heroines. Cut Nyak Dhien and Cut Nyak Meutia waged a nationalist war against the Dutch during the Aceh War at the turn of the 20th Century. Another Indonesian National Heroine, Martha Christina Tiahahu, joined a guerrilla war against the Dutch colonial government as a teenager, in 1817.

Somdet Phra Sri Suriyothai (สมเด็จพระศรีสุริโยทัย) was a royal consort during the 16th century Ayutthaya period of Siam (now Thailand). She is famous for having given up her life in the defense of her husband, King Maha Chakkraphat, in a battle during the Burmese-Siamese War of 1548. For the movie, see The Legend of Suriyothai.

Several women fought in the Napoleonic Wars. One famous example was Friederike Krüger, who dressed as a man and fought for the Prussians under the alias August Lübeck. Eventually it was discovored, that she was in fact a woman, but Frederick William III of Prussia allowed her to stay in the army. She was later awarded with the Iron Cross for her bravery.

Lyudmila Pavlichenko was a Soviet sniper during World War II, and is regarded as the most successful female sniper in history.

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved to Women warriors in literature and culture. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:09, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
 * PS I have also redirected Woman warrior to the disambiguation page Warrior woman. Some disambiguation will be required. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 01:43, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Woman warrior → Women Warriors in Literature and Popular Culture – information concerning history already exists with much better sources Beag maclir --Relisted. walk victor falktalk 20:13, 6 April 2014 (UTC) (talk) 15:42, 29 March 2014 (UTC) Since this article is poorly cited and the information presented here already exists in other articles, plus the introduction states this article is about woman warriors in literature and popular culture, I would like the title to reflect that. Beag maclir (talk) 15:42, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment. I would hold off renaming this article until its scope is hammered out. My understanding in the previous discussions is that this page is suppose to be about the stock character-type in general, a sort of WP:DABCONCEPT page about the topic. The page is already written in sort of a summary style, linking to the more detailed articles of List of women warriors in folklore, List of female action heroes, and List of female action heroes (when an article is written in a summary style, "information presented here already exists in other articles" is what it is suppose to do: summarize content from different articles into one page). If that is the case, per WP:CRITERIA a longer less-concise title would not be appropriate because there is no "woman warrior" articles that need to be disambiguated from (the scope that is in "literature and popular culture" is already stated in the lead section). Zzyzx11 (talk) 17:56, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment if this is renamed then "woman warrior" should redirect to warrior woman -- 70.24.250.235 (talk) 05:02, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment If the only thing this article is suppose to do is recap (I'm sorry, "summarize") what is presented elsewhere in better sourced articles, then so be it. I've noticed there are a lot of Wiki articles that get away from actually using any citations at all because they apparently link to other pages that, in theory, are cited; if that's the way editors here roll I certainly won't get in the way of WP:CRITERIA. I retract the suggestion of a name change. Best of luck. Beag maclir (talk) 18:11, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Support, per the current content. I was mildly surprised to see that this broad topic appears Wikipedia-notable.  Not sure about the capitals A, P & C, shouldn't it all be lowercase?  Give some thought to alternatives to the awkward "in literature and popular culture".  Maybe Women warriors in literature and culture.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:27, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Support Women warriors in literature and culture per SmokeyJoe. Redirect the base title to the dab at Warrior woman. --BDD (talk) 18:35, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Synthesis and women warriors article
This article appears to be an unpublished synthesis of materials, and may not qualify for inclusion as an article on Wikipedia.

Also, there doesn't seem to be any sources that cover this particular topic. Please see WP:N and WP:RS. Steve Quinn (talk) 23:39, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

"Masculine clothing"
The following is circular reasoning: "Masculine clothing, like Joan of Arc's knightly armor or Megan Turner’s police uniform in Blue Steel, generally plays an important symbolic role in denoting narrative status, sanction to act, and distance from typical female limitations."

If a woman wants to fight against swords and arrows, she needs an armor. If she joins the police, she needs a uniform. This makes it unisex clothing, not masculine clothing. Essentially, there is only one really gender-specific piece of clothing that I can think of: the bra.

The use of "masculine clothing" in the article is circular: If being a sword fighter or joining the police is considered male activity, the clothing worn during these activities is considered "masculine". In truth, these activities can also be practised by women, so the circular reasoning is wrong. --91.34.136.10 (talk) 14:39, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Is this supposed to be about what Feminists believe or what is true?
I couldn't help but notice the line "Her sexuality may be overt, but it is made aggressive and unsettling, as with the insect-like Aeon Flux." and was led to wonder whether this is supposed to be a description of the popular feminist interpretation or if it was supposed to be an unbiased analysis of Aeon Flux. I don't mean to start a political argument, but the tone of the article seemed to be one of a presentation of assumed facts, whereas many of the subjects presented seem to be highly opinionated and/or nonsensical. Aeon Flux is a show about aggressive, unsettling, insect-like people. Joann D'Arc would have to have worn knights armor because she was participating in medieval combat. As the article for Thelma and Louise states, it was a road film, so of course it would have a car. I would recommend either amending these points or specifying that these are politically motivated interpretations to some extent beyond placing them under a feminism-related sub-section i.e. "Many feminists agree. . ." or "Noted feminist scholar Jane Doe notes in her book. . ." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Woogasnerk (talk • contribs) 07:52, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Bibliography of sources for article.
I'm compiling a bibliography of sources for a project in which I will be working on this article, making edits, and adding citations. I'll be posting my bibliography here in case anyone has advice or would like to view the sources.

The Amazon Women: Is There Any Truth Behind the Myth?

St. Joan of Arc: French Heroine

Mulan: The Legend through History

Women Warriors Are the Rage in Hollywood--But What Was the Truth?

Avenging Women

15 Strongest Female Characters in the DC Universe — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jpatlas24 (talk • contribs) 00:40, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: History of Sexuality
— Assignment last updated by JoePayne6467 (talk) 16:05, 11 November 2023 (UTC)