Talk:Working on a Dream Tour/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer:  Kitchen Roll   (Exchange words)  22:20, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

I'll be reviewing the article in the next few days or so. At first read through it looks good, but have spotted some issues. I know a fair bit about the subject of the article, so I hope this will help in the review.  Kitchen Roll   (Exchange words)  22:20, 8 July 2010 (UTC)


 * OK, thanks. Look forward to the review.  Wasted Time R (talk) 02:51, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

The lead

 * “Even more unlike all his previous tours, Working on a Dream Tour ... ” --> “the Working on a Dream Tour”
 * Fixed.
 * “The final leg of the tour featuring Springsteen often playing one of his classic 1970s or 1980s albums all the way through, another first.” --> “Often, during the final leg of the tour, Springsteen played one of his classic albums from the 1970s or 1980s all the way through.”
 * It's important to keep in that this was the first time Springsteen had done this. I changed it to "The final leg of the tour often featured another first as Springsteen played one of his classic 1970s or 1980s albums all the way through."
 * Lead section looks good. ✅

Ticket sales

 * “The two each New Jersey and Philadelphia shows sold out in about an hour” --> “All the shows in New Jersey and Philadelphia sold out in about an hour”
 * It's important to keep in the number of shows, since the difficulty of selling out depends on how much you're selling. I changed it to "The pair of shows in both New Jersey and Philadelphia sold out in about an hour." although that's still a little clunky.
 * “the Springsteen people” isn’t very encyclopedic. Who are “the Springsteen people”?
 * Changed to say Springsteen's management.
 * “where tickets are sold on the secondary market” --> shouldn’t this be in the past tense “where tickets were sold on the secondary market”
 * Done.
 * “Springsteen's organization, as well as record companies and promoters, do hold back substantial numbers of tickets from public sales and making supply of them even tighter, especially for New Jersey shows.” --> ”Springsteen's organization, as well as record companies and promoters, held back substantial numbers of tickets from public sales and made their supply even tighter, especially for New Jersey shows.”
 * Done.
 * “In March 2009, Springsteen manager Jon Landau” --> ”In March 2009, Springsteen’s manager Jon Landau”
 * I think the existing form is allowable, as a compound adjective. Putting it into your form means putting in commas around "Jon Landau" and the commas already pile up later in the sentence.
 * “When Springsteen's fall Giants Stadium shows were ... ”. Does “fall” mean the shows happened during autumn? To reduce ambiguity the months should probably be given instead.
 * Trouble is, the shows were in both September and October, which would be awkward to state. Changed it to "autumn", which might make it clearer.
 * Everything adressed in this section. ✅  Kitchen Roll   (Exchange words)  16:04, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

The show

 * “Springsteen performed a couple of public rehearsal shows at Asbury Park Convention Hall before beginning the tour proper.” --> “Springsteen performed a couple of public rehearsal shows at Asbury Park Convention Hall before he began the tour properly.”
 * This sense of "proper", meaning "in the strict sense of the word" and used immediately following the word in question, can't be used in the adverb form (see dictionary.com entry #7 here). So I think this is correct as it is.
 * “Once the first leg of the tour proper began with the consistent show opener "Badlands"” --> “Once the first leg of the tour began properly, “Badlands” consistently opened the shows”
 * “featuring the two added singers”. Does the two added singers refer to Curtis King and Cindy Mizelle? If so, it would be better to name them here.
 * Have done so.
 * “Nor was the prior album Magic given any due, with only "Radio Nowhere" included.” --> “Nor was the previous album, Magic, given any due, with only "Radio Nowhere" included.”
 * Done.
 * “Van Zandt said that the emergence of the recession theme was in part what led the show in a direction away from showcasing the Working on a Dream album.” --> ”Van Zandt said that the emergence of the recession theme was in part the reason why the shows were led away from showcasing the Working on a Dream album.”
 * Reworded to make it even shorter.
 * “While wife Scialfa was nowhere to be seen in Europe, their son Evan appeared and played guitar during encores of a number of shows.” The way this is written implies she’s Jay Weinberg’s wife.
 * Clarified who she is.
 * “Lofgren continued his practice of often opening shows with national songs played on accordion.” --> ”Lofgren continued to open shows, playing national songs on accordion.”
 * Done.
 * “Apart from the album playings, Springsteen's kept setlists flexible during the third leg”. Springsteen’s --> Springsteen
 * Done.
 * Everything's been reworded in this section, apart from the comments I've striked. ✅  Kitchen Roll   (Exchange words)  16:04, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Band members

 * “As mentioned previously, Jay Weinberg substituted for Max Weinberg on a number of dates” doesn’t need the “As mentioned previously”.
 * Done.
 * ✅  Kitchen Roll   (Exchange words)  16:04, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Itinerary

 * Ref #3 to the Glastonbury website seems to be a redirect http://www.glastonburyfestivals.co.uk/news/site-snaps-3.
 * Replaced with BBS News story saying the same.
 * Excellent ✅  Kitchen Roll   (Exchange words)  16:04, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

The show

 * The paragraph beginning “Per past practice, Springsteen performed ... ” needs a source
 * ✅  Kitchen Roll   (Exchange words)  16:54, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The section beginning “Of the other Working on a Dream songs, a couple were never attempted in private rehearsal;” until the end of the paragraph needs a source.
 * “Other honored sign requests were usually for songs early or obscure in Springsteen's catalog.” Seems like OR until a source can be found.
 * “while Ali Weinberg and Clarence Clemon's nephew also made playing appearances and Springsteen's mother and aunt also took the stage.” Needs a source, also the apostrophe in “Clemons” should be after the “s”, not before.
 * ✅  Kitchen Roll   (Exchange words)  16:54, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * “The European leg ended with five shows in Spain, at more out-of-the-way locations than in the past; the last of these shows, at the Monte Do Gozo in Santiago de Compostela, played "Rockin' All Over the World" but concluded its encore with "Born in the U.S.A." after 1 a.m. local time. Max Weinberg immediately flew back to Los Angeles and resumed his role on The Tonight Show later that same day.” Needs a source.
 * “Showcasing featured vocals from Cindy Mizelle or Curtis King and trumpet solos from Curt Ramm, the song stretched to eight minutes with key changes, reprises, and walks through the pit area by Springsteen and the singers, and became recognized as one of the highpoints of the entire tour.” Is referenced to source #110, which doesn’t seem to support the sentence.
 * I believe all of the above are now sourced. Wasted Time R (talk) 10:50, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Ref #68 to http://www.mcall.com/entertainment/music/all-d4_weekconcerts.6882370may02,0,2402026.story is a redirect
 * I ran a 'checklinks' when I put the article up at GAN and dealt with a bunch of news cite links that had gone bad. Just in the time from then to now, these others have gone bad too.  With newspapers aggressively moving content behind paywalls, this problem is only going to get worse for articles like this.  Anyway, this one couldn't even be found in the pay archives, so I commented out the url.
 * This ref is fine now, a link would be better, but we can't have everything ✅  Kitchen Roll   (Exchange words)  16:04, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Ref #60 to http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090508.wspringsteen0509/BNStory/Entertainment/?page=rss&id=RTGAM.20090508.wspringsteen0509 needs a tag.
 * 'Fee required' indication added.
 * Ok ✅  Kitchen Roll   (Exchange words)  16:04, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Critical and commercial reception

 * Ref #117 to http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/chi-091208-best-concerts-2009-pictures,0,494632.photogallery is a redirect
 * Paywall link given and 'fee required' indication added.
 * Ref #119 is dead.
 * Paywall link given and 'fee required' indication added.
 * section's refs are fixed ✅  Kitchen Roll   (Exchange words)  16:04, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Broadcasts and recordings

 * Needs sources for all but the last paragraph. ✅
 * Sorry for the delay; I was very busy for the past several days and wasn't on WP at all. I've added the cites for this section, and will continue working on the other unresolved issues in the review.  Wasted Time R (talk) 14:03, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * No need to appologise; there's obviously been a lot of work put into this article and is nearly at GA standard, so I wouldn't fail it on the basis of you being busy in real life.  Kitchen Roll   (Exchange words)  14:36, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Tour dates

 * Whole table needs sources.
 * I figured this would come up. Tour dates listings are a borderline violation of WP:NOTDIRECTORY.  I never include them in tour articles I start, but lots of other editors like them and put them in, at which point I don't try to remove them.  The dates listing at least can be sourced, via one entry for the first two legs at the Springsteen official website and another entry there for the third leg.  But there's no sources for the attendance figures, and I think those are really excessive in terms of minor detail.  However, I don't feel like hand-editing 85 rows of table entries to pull out those columns.  So until somebody does, I've commented out the entire section.   Wasted Time R (talk) 01:39, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
 * As long as the table remains hidden this doean't matter. I'd also move the ref in the table that supported the cancelled Kansas show to support the "It was not rescheduled" sentence in the Itinerary section to make it clearer that it's supported by a source.  Kitchen Roll   (Exchange words)  16:04, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok this is done now ✅  Kitchen Roll   (Exchange words)  14:33, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Is it broad in its coverage?
Pass

Is it neutral?
Pass

Is it stable?
Pass

Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
Pass

Result
Really interesting article and a good read. It goes on hold until the above comments have been adressed. Thanks  Kitchen Roll   (Exchange words)  15:57, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Right everything's done. I'm more than happy to pass the article.  Kitchen Roll   (Exchange words)  17:41, 27 July 2010 (UTC)