Talk:World War II casualties/Archives/2019/February

Numerous questions to the article
1. "According to Nazi ideology, Slavs were useless sub-humans" - this is a ridiculous claim that has no place on Wikipedia, Slavs were allies of Hitler (Slovakia) and were involved in the SS (Galizien). I'm not trying to make it a forum, I just suggest toning down clearly contentious parts (which are not the subject of the article, and thus proper argumentation cannot be used). 2. "fleeing on the eastern front" x3 - this part occurs three times in the text, in the same paragraph, in all cases I fail to see the meaning of it. One can flee to or from somewhere, but not "on". I have not corrected it. 3. "is included with American not Czechoslovak war dead" - should the not Czechoslovak be marked with commas? 4. "Additional losses not included by Krivosheev were 267,300 [556] died of sickness in hospital, 135,000 [557] convicts executed, and 422,700 convicts [557] sent to penal units at the front." - I have improved parts of it, but it still is quite clumsy. 5. "The Overmans study" > shouldn't it be possessive, The Overmans'[s] study? 6. What's about all the cases where the tenses are not sequenced? Such as in "Il'enkov and Mikhalev maintained that the field unit reports did not include deaths".--Adûnâi (talk) 04:12, 30 January 2019

the Nazis were just using them According to Nazi ideology, Slavs were useless subhumans. As such, their leaders, the Soviet elite, were to be killed and the remainder of the population enslaved or expelled further eastward. As a result of these racist fantasies, millions of Soviet civilians were deliberately killed, starved, or worked to death. Millions of others were deported for forced labor in Germany or enslaved in the occupied eastern territories. German planners called for the ruthless exploitation of Soviet resources, especially of agricultural produce. This was one of Germany's major war aims in the east. https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-german-army-and-the-racial-nature-of-the-war-against-the-soviet-union

The concrete measures taken by the Nazis to secure their Lebensraum demonstrate the very real power of ideas. Again, in his second book, Hitler wrote that Germany should “[concentrate] all of its strength on marking out a way of life for our people through the allocation of adequate Lebensraum for the next one hundred years.” Naturally, the inferior races that occupied this region must be removed, both Slavs and Jews.

The drive to clear the East of inferior populations in preparation for German colonization led to intensive planning for the mass starvation of over 30 million people there. Policy guidelines issued before the invasion of the Soviet Union stated unequivocally that “many tens of millions of people in this territory will become superfluous and will have to die or migrate to Siberia… https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/lebensraum Jack90s15 (talk) 21:14, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

That encyclopaedia makes no sense. It conflates the Slavic elite with the ruling stratum of the Soviet Union (which often was not even Slavic). It conflates Slavs with the peoples of the USSR (omitting Slovakia and Croatia who fought for Hitler as equals). And of course, it says not a word about such formations as the SS Galizien. Also, starvation is not exclusive to Nazi ideology - Bolsheviks did not subscribe the Lebensraum ideals, yet starved millions of Slavs nonetheless.--Adûnâi (talk) 01:53, 11 February 2019 (UTC)


 * You wrote That encyclopaedia makes no sense This is not a blog, lets discuss sources, not our opinions--Woogie 10w (talk) 01:57, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

but Hitler and the Nazis hated Slavic people Generalplan Ost? he was Just using them

The Nazis considered the Slavs as Non-Aryan Untermenschen ("sub-humans") who were to be enslaved and exterminated by Germans.[4] Slavic nations such as the Ukrainians, Czechs, Slovaks, Bulgarians and Croats who collaborated with Nazi Germany were still being perceived as not racially "pure" enough to reach the status of Germanic peoples, yet they were eventually considered ethnically better than the rest of the Slavs, mostly due to pseudoscientific theories about these nations having a considerable admixture of Germanic blood.[11] In countries where these people lived, there were according to Nazis small groups of non-Slavic German descendants. These people underwent a "racial selection" process to determine whether or not they were "racially valuable", if the individual passed they would be re-Germanised and forcefully taken from their families in order to be raised as Germans.[12][13][14] This secret plan Generalplan Ost ("Master Plan East") aimed at expulsion, enslavement and extermination of most Slavic people. Nazi policy towards them changed during World War II as a pragmatic means to resolve military manpower shortages: they were allowed, with certain restrictions, to serve in the Waffen-SS, in spite of being considered subhumansJack90s15 (talk) 03:50, 11 February 2019 (UTC) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_policy_of_Nazi_Germany

Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party regarded Slavic countries (especially Poland, Russia, and Serbia) and their peoples as non-Aryan Untermenschen (subhumans), they were deemed to be foreign nations that could not be considered part of the Aryan master raceJack90s15 (talk) 03:58, 11 February 2019 (UTC) Longerich, Peter (2010). Holocaust: The Nazi Persecution and Murder of the Jews. Oxford; New York: Oxford University Press. p. 241

The Nazis' policy towards Slavs was to exterminate or enslave the vast majority of the Slavic population and repopulate their lands with millions of ethnic Germans and other Germanic peoples. According to the resulting genocidal Generalplan Ost, millions of German and other "Germanic" settlers would be moved into the conquered territories, and the original Slavic inhabitants were to be annihilated, removed or enslavedJack90s15 (talk) 03:58, 11 February 2019 (UTC) Bendersky, Joseph W. (2007).A concise history of Nazi Germany Plymouth, U.K.: Rowman & Littlefield. p. 161


 * Please this article is way to large to begin with, there is no need to repeat what appears in other Wikipedia articles WP:REDUNDANTFORK--Woogie 10w (talk) 04:03, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

ok I Just wanted to show information that the Nazis policy towards Slavs was to exterminate-enslave them and that Hitler was just using them the ones in The waffen-ssJack90s15 (talk) 05:15, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Referenece 175 is bad
Reference leads to a page in the 1960 Statistical Yearbook that references the total number of churches in German, has nothing to do with civilian or military deaths. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jordanss2112 (talk • contribs) 14:01, 21 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I corrected the ref it is the 1961 Statistical Yearbook, not 1960. In German it says Band 1960, which I picked up--Woogie 10w (talk) 17:14, 21 February 2019 (UTC)