Talk:World football transfer record/Archive 1

Circular reference
I expect it is highly likely that the BBC reporter used this article as their primary source. These should be replaced with original references for each transfer. ed g2s &bull; talk 13:53, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * This article you mean? GiantSnowman 22:51, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I have now removed the references. ed g2s &bull; talk 08:00, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

No, I would have thought this article used the BBC article as its source. Willy turner (talk) 06:53, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That's impossible. This article was written first. ed g2s &bull; talk 08:00, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

The euro
Since all record-breaking stransfers in the new millenium were made in euros, why not creating a third row with the current value in euros? The tradeback to pounds can create conflicts like the one with Zidane and Kaká's transfer values... BrickBreak (talk) 01:35, 21 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree. Actually, why not take this to its logical conclusion and just write all the sums in Euros? As it stands now I don't see it making any sense. Pebapi (talk) 16:18, 17 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Listing 1957 transfers in Euros is nonsensical. It's also unclear how the conversion was done - there seems to have been much more inflation in pounds than euros, for example. Modest Genius talk 16:02, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, there's something wrong with the euro transfer fees in early times - are they DM? I'll change if I get time — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.168.85.199 (talk) 07:28, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Andy McCombie
The Andy McCombie article says that he is "reported to have joined Newcastle United for a fee of £700.[6] If correct this would have been a world record transfer fee, exceeding the fee of £520 paid by Sunderland in June 1904 for Alf Common." There's no mention of the 1904 Alf Common record on this page - is this an oversight here, or is the McCombie article wrong? It's also mentioned in the Alf Common article. Greenman (talk) 16:34, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Column Titles
The fee columns are untitled, which makes it unclear what they represent - which is the real value, and which is the nominal? Burakov (talk) 01:35, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Fixed
There is an anomaly in the table that is possibly an error (thought not necessarily so). At first glance, I thought that this particular table would necessarily be in the same order (CONJECTURE) whether sorted by "progressively later date" or by "progressively more money". So it seemed to me at first that there must be an error within these two consecutive entries:
 * 1976 1,750,000 Paolo Rossi, Vicenza to Juventus (alll Italian transfer)
 * 1981 1,500,000 Bryan Robson, West Bromwich Albion to Manchester United (all English transfer)

Their order depends upon whether they're sorted by "progressively later date" (Rossi then Robson), or by "progressively more money" (Robson then Rossi). This contradicts my CONJECTURE above. Upon further thought, I can construct a counter-example to my CONJECTURE if for example the value of the Pound in 1976 was cnosiderably less than its value in 1981, but that the value of the Italian Lire remained constant. Thus I realized that this apparent anomaly may be legitimate, and merely be an artifact of the currency exchange difficulty (alluded to in the Euro section above). But if so, one must infer that
 * one a half million Pounds in 1981

is worth more than the Italian Lire equivalent of:
 * one and three quarter million Pounds in 1976

At exactly those times, I worked and was paid multinationally within Europe. I don't recall such fluctuation in value. Are the Robson and Rossi entries both individually correct AND do both represent new world records at their respective times? I think this page should spruce itself up, because I understand a new entry is imminent (new entry - but familiar buyer). With thanks from ChrisJBenson (talk) 13:46, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks - this was a recently added entry, and is clearly wrong - it was a British record, not a world record. I've reverted it. Greenman (talk) 16:41, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

No, Greenman. Thank you. I will be sending you a message here shortly - different topic - same article. From ChrisJBenson (talk) 23:18, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Firstly a note about dubious and disputed
An anonymous user added a "disputed - discuss" template to the recent entry for Gareth Bale. Hey folks, please let's do this according to the Wikipedia guidelines on Dubious Statements, Disputed Statements, and Accuracy Disputes. Those guidelines can be found here: WP:DUBIOUS, and include the following points: In accordance with these guidelines, I am removing the anonymous template attached to the Gareth Bale transfer entry. I recognize that there is genuine current concern about whether Gareth Bale's transfer fee set a world record, so I am adding a template, associating it with a sub-section below. ChrisJBenson (talk) 02:49, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Please do not mark up the article text with a template without first creating a corresponding Dubious Talk section, describing the issue.
 * Secondly, insert a template instance. Note that at this stage, the word is dubious not disputed.
 * Do not use a template unless there are already more than five  templates in the article (or after an unresolved dispute in the Talk page discussion).
 * Please use the correct date in these Dubious/Disputed templates. Don't try to back-date your observations.
 * The template means that Wikipedia editors have tried but failed to agree on verification, clarification, or removal of dubious statements. No Wikipedia article, or a section or statement within one can be classified as Disputed unless a discussion on the issue has taken place and at least one editor is certain that the presented (and sourced) information is false, and at least one editor is certain that the same presented information is true. It does not mean that a statement is being disputed out there in the real world (although that may be happening too).

Lower fee in media reports from the Madrid area
The transfer fee paid by Real Madrid (Spain) to Tottenham Hotpur (England) on 1 September 2013 for Gareth Bale (Wales) was widely (but not unanimously or officially) reported as €100 million. On the day of the transfer, that amount was equivalent to £85,300,000 and thus the reported amount constituted a new world record, using the criterion of this Wikipedia article. Almost immediately, press reports originating in Madrid called into question the precise amount, and whether it exceeded the previous record of €94 million (for Cristiano Ronaldo's move to the same club in 2009). Some of these reports from Madrid stated that the fee was €91 million, and one of them specifically attributed the discrepancy to different agreements over potential arrangements for either immediate payment in full, or for payment by instalments over a period of time. A separate report indicated that Real Madrid had been successful in its effort to obtain bank instruments for immediate payment of the whole transfer fee.

In the middle of October 2013, FIFA.com reported that Real Madrid insured Gareth Bale for €91 million, and quoted a source within the club that the insurance valuation was for "the amount [we] paid for him". The President of Real Madrid Football club, Florentino Pérez, followed his earlier vague statements with an unequivocal clarification in mid-October 2013 that Gareth Bale's fee was less than the fee that Real Madrid paid for Cristiano Ronaldo in 2009. Neither club has issued a statement indicating the amount of the Gareth Bale transfer fee, so there is no authoritative or definitive public source to resolve this discrepancy.

A selection of recent statements from the Madrid press and the Real Madrid club President should be placed here to stimulate an informed discussion, perhaps balanced by the original reports of a new world record. I should have time to do this myself within the next day or two, but other interested editors can jump ahead if they wish.

Oh yes, there is one more thing. I moved to the USA long before Gareth Bale was born, but I was born in Glamorgan, Wales (the same county and country as Gareth Bale). This makes me potentially not neutral on this topic. I do try to be WP:NPOV, rather than WP:COI, even to the point of naming my country after the founder of Wikipedia.

Did the recent transfer fee for Gareth Bale set a new world record? Comment or vote by 9 Dec 2013
This sub-section was initially created by ChrisJBenson (talk) 02:49, 21 October 2013 (UTC).

An entry was added to this article on 1 September 2013, following widespread reports around the globe that a new world record transfer fee was paid by Real Madrid CF (Spain) to Tottenham Hotspur FC (England) for the services of Gareth Bale (Wales). Over the subsequent weeks, some press reports (primarily originating in Madrid) and recent statements made by Florentino Pérez, the President of Real Madrid, have questioned whether the still undisclosed fee exceeded the previous world record set in 2009. Please discuss, comment, or vote on how this article should handle these reports, optionally indicating your preference from the choices below, to ascertain current sentiment and level of consensus. Of course any consensus chosen from above would be reviewed and would probably be abandoned if any official definitive information becomes available.
 * 1) The recent Gareth Bale entry should be completely removed from this article?
 * 2) The recent Gareth Bale entry should be retained but clearly marked with text something like this ...  "Amount reported in the range €91 million to €101 million, but has not been officially confirmed. The lower 30% of that range would not constitute a new world record". Talk page discussions will continue and wait for further information, such as a revised media consensus or an official statement.
 * 3) The recent Gareth Bale entry should be left unchanged, keeping its appearance of the last seven weeks, with the originally reported world record fee, without any indication of controversy or contradictory reports?
 * 4) Something else should be done (specific details might be helpful).

77.98.61.51> I feel that he should remain with annotations, and that this should become the norm. This is because the shift to "undisclosed" transfer fees in the past five years has been overwhemling, and a huge majority of transfers fees are now "undisclosed". Therefore, it is likely that the World transfer record will become a matter of rumour and hearsay rather than official statement (as with the Bale transfer).

[Please add ~ to the end of posts on Talk Pages.]


 * To Paragraph Above (Birmingham, UK), From Original Section Creator (Martine, California, USA), I agree with all of that. I think Wikipedia already restricts "rumours", by only allowing those having a widely reported consensus. That has two components here:
 * Did the fee for the new transfer break an existing record (prerequisite to appear here)?
 * What was the amount of the fee?
 * I think each of the two components above should be determined separately, (after conversion to British pounds at the base exchange rate of the day of the transfer), but can be reported together. I had previously noted that the fee for Zinedine Zidane's transfer appeared in the following year's public financial report for Juventus, thus becoming an officially reported fee almost exactly 12 months later. Do most of the top European clubs trquired to individually report such large sales or purchases in their next annual report?


 * With thanks from ChrisJBenson (talk) 10:16, 29 November 2013 (UTC)


 * This section has been here for almost six weeks, and apart from its creator Chris J Benson (talk), it has only attracted one anonymous comment (Thanks Brum. Please sign Talk page posts with ~ ). The two contributors agree, and that agreement will be adopted after 7 weeks (for the Gareth Bale case only). That is unless dissenting comments appear below before 23:59 Monday 9 December 2013 UTC.


 * There have been no further comments or votes. The original media reports of Gareth Bale's world record transfer fee continue to be affirmed by reliable sources and it remains the broad media consensus. Until these are retracted or replaced by new reports in a broad media consensus, or an authoritative official statement is released directly from one of the sources, the existing information will be retained as a reported world record transfer fee, but with prominent annotation for the unofficial remarks made by Florentino Pérez, the President of Real Madrid Football Club.


 * In light of the suggestion by 77.98.61.51, an extra column will be added to the primary table providing room for a small amount of inline textual annotation. For the Gareth Bale entry, this will contain a brief stand-alone summary with citations of the remarks made in mid-October by Florentino Pérez, along with continued assertions to the contrary, such as the citations in the paragraph above.

ChrisJBenson (talk) 04:03, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Please, add next comment immediately above here. Indent paragraphs using one more colon than the previous post. Sign it by adding ~.

The currently proposed solution is Item 2. in the numbered list 1. to 4. near the top of this sub-section. Informal inferred voting is currently 0-2-0-0 for those four choices.
 * 2. The recent Gareth Bale entry should be retained but clearly marked with text.

Lajos Détári
Why is Lajos Détári not part of this list? At the beginning of the 1988 season he was on the move from Eintract Frankfurt to Olympiacos for a world record fee of £7,000,000 beating the previous fee for Ruud Gullit. Statto74 (talk) 18:57, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Reverted back to my amendment, as no valid reason was given for removing it. Detari's page mentions he broke the record so it is inconsistent that this page differs. Statto74 (talk) 19:43, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Neymar
Where is Neymar? ... his transfer was 111,3 millions finaly and he doesnt appear in this list

James Rodriguez
What is his name doing here? Someone please remove it.