Talk:World of Warcraft/Archive 22

Destroyed the games Economy
The lack of security has lead to rampant item creating by hacking Eg Mounts and crafting items (This should be mentioned) which has destroyed the games economy. (this is important and not mentioned).--Ertttttttt (talk) 23:34, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Per WP:V, please provide a reliable source that verifies the statement and shows that it's a noteworthy aspect of the game. Content is usually only added if journalists from third party sources have covered it in their writings. Sergecross73   msg me  00:26, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

TOS offers users no protection
So when your account gets hacked because of their poor security, you get banned :). (not that they will mention what they claim u have done). Again not mentioned and important. Network attacks - These happen often disabling the game. (not mentioned in article) Since Gambling is allowed (not mentioned in the article), is done with buy gold with cash, so should be 18 plus rating in Australia.--Ertttttttt (talk) 23:34, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Per WP:V, please provide a reliable source that verifies the statement and shows that it's a noteworthy aspect of the game. Content is usually only added if journalists from third party sources have covered it in their writings. Sergecross73   msg me  00:27, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

Role Playing
While this can be done its >.5%, So before that its many many things Role Playing is not worth mentioning--Ertttttttt (talk) 23:36, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Per WP:V, please provide a reliable source that verifies the statement and shows that it's a noteworthy aspect of the game. Content is usually only added if journalists from third party sources have covered it in their writings. Sergecross73   msg me  00:28, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

Interesting point the article claims its a role playing game, but no reference for that so u will remove that claim? I bet it will still be there in weeks GG. --Ertttttttt (talk) 00:34, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Have you even read the article? There's several sources tied to statements of "roleplay".... Almost every source in the article refers to the game as an MMORPG. It's well established. -- ferret (talk) 00:40, 6 February 2016 (UTC)== Extremely Pro Biased Article ==

It is — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ertttttttt (talk • contribs) 23:19, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Feel free to highlight any statements you feel are do not have a neutral point of view. -- ferret (talk) 23:28, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Neutral point of view? So things that are facts and can be proven? by being on the net. I have listed several negative facts which u deleted. Also the blizz comment about botting software is hilarious since they knew 150,000 botting accounts and took 6 months to suspend them--Ertttttttt (talk) 23:37, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * This stuff is all your personal opinions. Sorry, it can't be included in the article. -- ferret (talk) 23:59, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

You could look at the article and see its very biased but don't want to fix that, why not? No they are not, again u can can educate yourself on the matter, have you done that with patents yet?--Ertttttttt (talk) 00:19, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Its your responsibility to provide the sources to verify any information you want in the article. In short, that's your job, not anyone else's.  Sergecross73   msg me  00:48, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on World of Warcraft. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090926121556/http://eu.blizzard.com/en/press/080626-ba.html to http://eu.blizzard.com/en/press/080626-ba.html
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 * Checked. -- ferret (talk) 22:27, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Private servers
Very odd that the article becomes locked and no mention of Nostalrius |Nostalrius or any mention of private servers at all. With the numerous articles, why is not not even mentioned? Multiple sources are available for citations - one is included here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.27.158.26 (talk) 23:37, 18 April 2016‎ (UTC)
 * The article has been locked since 2010 due to repeated vandalism. It has nothing to do with the Nostalrius topic. There is a request for an article for Nostalrius at the WP:VG request board but no one has worked on it yet. -- ferret (talk) 00:02, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Highest Grossing Game
I checked the source for the claim in the opening section that says World of Warcraft is the highest grossing game of all time. The slide show does not load for me, and their listed source for the information, Digital Battle appears to be a broken link. In fact, the site digitalbattle.com does not appear to exist at all.

What also concerns me is an article from last year from the same website says it is in fact only the fourth highest grossing game of all time having earned $8.5 billion. This number contradicts the $10 billion number from the original source. On this second article they give two sources for this claim, and both those sources appear to get their revenue figures from the same sources. It is interesting to note that on these lists, World of Warcraft is number one without adjusting for inflation, but it is number 4 when inflation adjusted.

Is the original source link broken for other folks, and should we edit the article to make a note that the highest grossing claim does not hold when adjusted for inflation? 137.132.200.133 (talk) 13:55, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I'd say the information is out of date. Both BusinessInsider articles cite a source I would consider unreliable. The first one is iffy, but the second one outright sources Wikia which is complete unreliable. We need a better source. List of best-selling video games might shed some light on available sourcing. -- ferret (talk) 14:11, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

This would need to be covered in the body, with better source. I am going to drop it from the lead, once, as a wp:bold update.Shajure (talk) 17:02, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Subscription numbers in the lead
As the world moves away from Pay to Play models, the subscription numbers will shrink toward 0. Further, these will no longer be reported by Blizzard, so the 5.5million number is the last there will be unless that policy changes. I would like to encourage an enterprising editor to propose text for the lead and the body to address this change... the rise to 12 million, droppoff since. Just for example (not for article content, just discussion), I still play 2 accounts, but I don't subscribe. I paid for the previous WoW expansion with "funny money" from the D3 auction house. I can't even imagine how they accounted for that in terms of "subscriptions" or "units sold".Shajure (talk) 17:12, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

I would propose S1 of the last para of the lead be changed to drop the stale subs number, and trim it to "World of Warcraft holds the Guinness World Record for the most popular MMORPG by subscribers". I am dubious of this remaining in the lead, however, as again, the numbers will become more and more incorrect... I would expect Guinness to drop that record over time, as it becomes meaningless.Shajure (talk) 17:18, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I would trim the lead to simply say "With a peak subscriber count of 12 million." or something along those lines, and let the body handle any other details. -- ferret (talk) 17:25, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I added the peak of 12 million to the lead section. --Frmorrison (talk) 18:16, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Release Date
The first line of the article says the game was released in 2004, but the info box says 2005. Somebody please hunt down the truth and fix this immediately, it is causing me a lot of stress and I don't deal well with stress. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.43.10.74 (talk) 14:08, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Its already correct. Infobox notes two release dates, first in 2004 for NA/AUS and then in 2005 for EU. -- ferret (talk) 14:10, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

Plot too detailed
I have never played World of Warcraft, so the plot section doesn't make much sense (in-universe, without any context). I added an {In-universe}} template because of this. Puuuj (talk) 00:02, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Since the plot is about the in-universe plot... it ... is in-universe. See most book, movie plots.  The article tag is not appropriate for a section.  Removed.Shajure (talk) 02:35, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Subscription section name
Since the game no longer requires a subscription to play, and especially since it no longer requires a subscription to play the full game, this may need a new title. One can play continuously characters up to and at level 20 at all times, and can "spend" in-game gold every 30 days to play without restriction compared to subscribers.Shajure (talk) 16:22, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
 * To illustrate... if I walk up to a news stand and buy a Wall Street Journal, I have not bought a 1 day subscription. If I buy one EVERY day, I *still* don't have a subscription.  If the WSJ is giving out a free web or printed version with headers and lead-ins only, I don't have a subscription.Shajure (talk) 16:26, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Blizzard calls WoW players "subscribers" and the game box even says it requires a subscription. I play WoW and playing it has been "free" for a while since I been buying tokens with in-game gold and I consider myself a subscriber. A subscriber is someone that pays for something in advance. In-game gold has a monetary value, so that counts as a payment.

I am going to change the article back to say it "requires" not "required" a subscription. --Frmorrison (talk) 18:16, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I've corrected it, and the correction was reverted twice, not doing it again. No, you can play forever without spending gold or money, but there are restrictions on the FTP model, as there always are.  I'll leave this for someone that cares.Shajure (talk) 00:31, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Based on the updated OED entry, I am going to switch to support Frmorrison's position. OED entry for Subscriptions - 13:52, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

Longest session
A longest-session record was added to the lead. wp:lead I whacked it out. With some concern, I added it to the social/study/player-base section. I am not convinced this belongs.Shajure (talk) 15:37, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
 * The fact is verified by a first-person source; there might be a RS out there for use. I am presently concerned about the WP:WEIGHT. --Izno (talk) 16:14, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
 * My concern is simpler... this isn't an article about people who play WoW, it is an article about WoW. To me, it would be like trying to record every football record in the football article.  I am dubious... and I was 100% certain it did not meet wp:lead. ;)  Unless someone comes along with a "we need this" I expect to drop it the next time I wander past.  Hah, or that someone else will. Shajure (talk) 16:53, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
 * You were right to remove the section about a record for game play length, it is trivia. I am taking it out of the main article, however it could belong in a "unhealthy habits of gamers" article. --Frmorrison (talk) 19:25, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Not really... competing for world records often involves risk/health impact. Doing something for 29 hours...while lounging about ... I am a bit bemused the record is so low.  People have been fighting wars and staying awake and active for longer than this since there were enough people to HAVE wars.  The longest continuous RUN is over 80 hours.  29?  Sitting?  Pfft.Shajure (talk) 02:38, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Adding Class Information
Hello. I was wondering whether or not I should add less-detailed information regarding playable classes and their characteristics into the main article or if it should be okay adding separate, highly detailed pages for classes. Let me know if possible. Vitas m (talk) 23:11, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
 * This article has enough information on the classes. However, this article Gameplay of World of Warcraft could have more info on classes. --Frmorrison (talk) 18:36, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Public Concerns
I feel like the article is lacking in the area of public opinion about the game,and it's association with addiction/removal from society. I would like to add a brief section titled "Public concerns," that goes over this information. I'm not planning on going into video game addiction in general, but specifically how it relates to the World of Warcraft game. WhiteCheddarPupper (talk) 18:47, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
 * If there's reliable sourcing that supports it. I'd be curious what sources you may have before it's added. There's a very fine line between WoW being used as an example of video game addiction and WoW being reported as somehow unique or special in this regard. -- ferret (talk) 19:07, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
 * There is an amazingly bad opinion-and-nonsense filled article on computer addiction. Getting it into good shape would be a good place for these concerns, since this is about the game, not about societies opinion of games.Shajure (talk) 23:28, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 April 2017
I would like to have the following section added under a subheading "Public Concerns."

There are a number of public concerns about World of Warcraft, mainly pertaining to addiction to the game, which leads to the players removing themselves from society in order to play as much as possible. Video game addiction (Link this to the Wikipedia video game addiction page) is not exclusive to World of Warcraft, but being the largest MMO, it is widely considered to be the most addictive video game on the market. A study has shown that up to 40% of World of Warcraft players may be addicted (Ref 1 here). There are countless stories of neglecting real life responsibilities because of addiction to WOW, some even go so far as death due to exhaustion or parental abuse (Ref 2 and 3 here). Cases such as these cause some to view World of Warcraft a detriment to society.

References: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_addiction - Video game addiction page

1. http://www.treatment4addiction.com/addiction/other/world-of-warcraft/ 2. https://www.engadget.com/2005/11/04/wow-online-funeral-commemorates-death-of-young-gamer/ 3. http://www.kxly.com/news/local-news/north-idaho/woman-loses-children-to-world-of-warcraft-addiction/176960245 WhiteCheddarPupper (talk) 23:51, 2 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Oppose - this is appropriate for the article (terribad as it is) on the proposed Video Game Addiction disorder. The article should be included in the SA.Shajure (talk) 16:57, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Hmmm I note the lack of an SA... we had one, no idea what happened to it and I just don't care enough to hunt it down and put it back or recreate it.Shajure (talk) 17:01, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
 * OK so since the SA was gone, I added it back after all, and linked both the overarching Internet addiction disorder as well as the Video game addictionShajure (talk) 17:10, 3 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: I think this represents WP:Original research. What we have here are two stories about people who were addicted (One died, one lost custody of children). The other reference, treatment4addiction, may not be a reliable source on subjects of addiction, as appears to be owned and operated by a social/marketing media group.


 * From these three sources, the statement is made that there's a "number of public concerns" about the game, and that there are "countless stories". Some of this content might be suitable for video game addiction, as already noted, but there doesn't appear to be reliable sourced coverage of Warcraft in particular as a separate form of addiction, or the focus of any specific public efforts or concern. -- ferret (talk) 17:07, 3 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Good points... I put a bit of OR in the SA... which was sloppy of me.Shajure (talk) 17:11, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I took a few pages off my watchlist--this one maybe shouldn't have been one of them. This question of video game addiction in relation to WoW is presented as overdue weight anywhere in the article, TBH. --Izno (talk) 16:46, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I can't agree with the complete removal of the SA.Shajure (talk) 22:47, 30 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Unless the mainstream media has reported on video game addiction with respect to WoW, I think the addiction or disorder articles do not belong.
 * For a see also? Seriously?  Mmmmm, no.  Anyway, yeah the mainstream media makes pretty steady references to people being addicted to MMOGs and especially WoW. News search on Google "world of warcraft addiction" will give you lots of pop media junk.  And of course the professional headshrinker press LOVES gaming addiction, and WoW as the largest ever gets top billing.Shajure (talk) 04:55, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Italics
Both World of Warcraft and WoW should be italicized when they appear in the article, as per Manual_of_Style/Titles. Follkon (talk) 18:20, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I would encourage an interested editor to dive into the many many MANY unprotected articles and make just a few edits, be automatically approved, then come back and make such a change. :)Shajure (talk) 05:03, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Game Play - Starting a New Character
This section is out of date.

MoP (Mists of Pandaria) introduced Pandarens who not only need not commit to Alliance or Horde upon character creation, but cannot until they level up a bit (I think to 15, but I'm not certain).

The line in this paragraph referring to choosing sides should either be qualified to something like "most races" or "in most cases" or a line should be added specifically excepting Pandarens from the general statement. No need to go into great detail, just, what's there is inaccurate. Fixing it would not be a huge issue, I don't think. But I didn't want to just alter it without coming here first.

As to sources. Hmmmm. Beyond the process of the game itself, I don't know. There is no officially published manual for the game that I'm aware of. But the character creation screen does clearly show the Pandaren racial choice as neither Alliance nor Horde (the races for each of those are in a column under faction heading - Pandaren is below those and centered).

I can report that what I'm saying is true. I don't know how to prove it within the accepted standards of Wikipedia. 2607:FCC8:AB03:7600:C13F:D5B8:E88A:73AA (talk) 12:00, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for pointing out the missing information and I updated the article to include it. --Frmorrison (talk) 15:58, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

Vanilla servers
With the recent announcement of official vanilla servers, I think that it would be nice to have a section about them and all of the unofficial ones that prompted Blizzard to make them. --Posted by Pikamander2   (Talk)  at 06:40, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I added a sentence about the official vanilla server. I am uncomfortable writing a section about the player-created legacy servers and how Blizzard shut them down, but it is something that could be included in a seperate section. --Frmorrison (talk) 17:59, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. For anybody that wants to write up a section, here are some links about the various private server shutdowns, some of which were legacy/vanilla servers: --Posted by Pikamander2   (Talk)  at 04:09, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/07/blizzard-shuts-down-legacy-wow-fan-server-hours-after-it-goes-up/
 * https://www.polygon.com/2016/4/11/11409436/world-of-warcraft-nostalrius-shutdown-legacy-servers-final-hours
 * https://www.polygon.com/2017/7/25/16025176/felmyst-warcraft-shut-down-burning-crusade-private-server
 * https://www.pcmag.com/news/355148/blizzard-shuts-down-private-wow-server-5-hours-after-launch
 * https://kotaku.com/popular-world-of-warcraft-legacy-community-shutting-dow-1791307230
 * https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/ezpve7/nostalrius-shut-down-blizzard-responds-vanilla-servers
 * https://kotaku.com/blizzard-says-they-had-to-shut-down-world-of-warcraft-f-1773089312
 * https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/04/07/vanilla-world-of-warcraft-server-nostalrius/

If any such article is to be written, I hope it won't perpetuate myths that some news articles subscribed to. For example, it can't really be said that Blizzard shut down Nostalrius (Nost shut it down themselves after receiving a cease and desist letter from Blizz, the court was not involved, and the force was not used). And as for this article, Elysium did not delete Nostalrius' database (the player characters from 2015 are still there (on Light's Hope after the October 2017 drama) to this day, the staff just said they would use their own core (it might even be the same for all we know); yet the article put it as if all Nost data was wiped). An example of a discussion from Reddit to better present the thoughts of the community.

Also, private servers have had a long history with Blizzard games. The Korean BW server Fish was integrated into the official release of StarCraft: Remastered (until it was closed in October). Warcraft 3 private servers W3Arena and YY have never had any trouble with Blizzard (unlike WoW where private server streamers were banned from Twitch, and all WoW game categories were molded into one).

What I want to say is that if you solely rely on sensationalist news articles, the end result will be quite far from reality. They're essential as reliable sources, sure, but some form of perspective has to be maintained.--Adûnâi (talk) 02:29, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Bad wording in § 3.3 "Expansions"
""On June 28, 2011, The Burning Crusade expansion was automatically applied to all previous Warcraft accounts at no cost. On September 19, 2012, the same thing was done with the Wrath of the Lich King expansion, and on October 15, 2013 the Cataclysm expansion was also applied. Most recently, on October 15, 2014, Mists of Pandaria was applied to all accounts following the release of Warlords. On May 17, 2016, Warlords of Draenor was applied to all accounts to coincide with the release of the Warcraft movie that gives a 30-day trial of the game.""

(emphasis mine)

Can somebody remove the "Most recently" at the beginning of the third sentence?

Topkecleon (talk) 22:43, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅ -- ferret (talk) 22:44, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Topkecleon (talk) 22:55, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

Typo in "Sale of virtual goods in the real world"
Near the very end of the "Sale of virtual goods in the real world" section there is a link that improperly links to the "American Red Crosss" which leads to a dead end. Dgcampbe (talk) 08:51, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Fixed. -- ferret (talk) 10:31, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 May 2018
The word disaster is spelled wrong (disater) under the headline "Sale of virtual goods in the real world". CalliopeMuse (talk) 03:54, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done DRAGON BOOSTER   ★  04:49, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121017213041/http://blog.megabloks.com/ to http://blog.megabloks.com/

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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 07:41, 9 January 2018 (UTC)