Talk:Wyangala/GA3

GA Review
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Reviewer: MonkeyStolen234 (talk · contribs) 23:05, 17 May 2020 (UTC)


 * GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)


 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):  d (copyvio and plagiarism):
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a (major aspects): b (focused):
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * 1) It is stable.
 * No edit wars, etc.:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * This has vastly improved from since the last time it was once a Good Article. I did minor adjustments but this did not hinder anything.
 * 1) It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * This has vastly improved from since the last time it was once a Good Article. I did minor adjustments but this did not hinder anything.
 * This has vastly improved from since the last time it was once a Good Article. I did minor adjustments but this did not hinder anything.

Further review

 * Reopening per discussion with MonkeyStolen234, I'll add some more comments. Kingsif (talk) 00:34, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

Copyvio

 * There appears to be some copyvio (check).
 * Two parts from this pre-2015 source (with a copyright notice):
 * explored the Lachlan from its junction with the Belubula River to the Great Cumbung Swamp
 * a dam was needed to regulate the Lachlan river-flow. Following the completion of Burrinjuck Dam on the Murrumbidgee River, work started on Wyangala Dam
 * A sentence from this report: It is one of the most important agricultural regions in Australia; accounting for 14% of the state's agricultural production.
 * And a long phrase not in quotation marks from this source: to provide primary level education for the children of the dam construction workers
 * Sources with less than 10% certainty not checked
 * Copyrighted images are used on the page, but hosted under free licenses on commons. This is from a spot check of the many images (spot-checked images country club and beach), so I've now checked all of them:
 * The first I spot checked came from this website, visible on the front page with a copyright notice. Other images have also been taken from here.
 * The beach image is sourced to 'Allhomes', which is a commercial real estate listing site.
 * Village center (infobox image) says it is the uploader's own work. Though the upload and image date are over a decade apart and the photo appears to be backed on white card and scanned, it doesn't show up anywhere else on the web. With the age of it (2003), there is the possibility it could be from e.g. a library and scanned by the uploader, but there's no real evidence of copyvio except for the uploader (commons:User talk:Fvalzano) blatantly doing it with other images
 * Wiradjuri map is from this blog post, which is copyrighted to the author mentioned at the commons upload. While it's unknown if the image is by him or just used in his blog post, it's evidently come from somewhere that may have copyright.
 * Historic portrait appears to be in PD
 * Selection of historic photographs: 1, 2, 3. Evidently not taken by Fvalzano in 2014 as claimed. If they're from c. 1900, they are probably PD in Australia, but there's no source
 * Some historic (1930s) photos by Dianna Haworth: Main Ave does have a source - that is broken - and a credit to Dianne Haworth, the copyright owner, with no indication of permission. Same broken source for village photo. 1930 date may or may not be PD in Australia, but the current license is wrong
 * Historic dam image free from Flickr collection - I've looked through this collection and the various historic photos above are not in it
 * Other historic dam image looks like it may be from the same NSW collection as the image above, but is not in the Flickr collection (though this looks to have changed since 2015) - and the present license, claiming own work in 2015, is evidently wrong
 * Postmark is from a website with copyright - I do not know the Australia PD on postmarks
 * School, church, park, boulder, and spillway images don't show up elsewhere on the internet and have no source, but they're very small, suggesting not the original photo but a thumbnail download (quality also indicates this). And, of course, the uploader's track record (another uploaded by ).
 * Bowl's club, golf course from the country club website, like the spot check
 * Matt Morrison Oval image also license as own work, big and good enough quality to suggest it is original - no guarantee of actual own work, but more likely.
 * Valley catchment map has a broken source, is 2002 NSW state property - license is wrong but it might be PD as Australia government work?


 * Honestly, the amount of image copyvio is disturbing and an investigation into the uploader should be completed before this article is really GA. Kingsif (talk) 17:46, 23 June 2020 (UTC)


 * - I don't know how commons does copyvio investigations, but that needs to happen. Kingsif (talk) 17:47, 23 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Pinging Diannaa, who I consult on serious copyvio issues, and can probably advise on who to consult regarding Commons images. BlueMoonset (talk) 20:57, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
 * It looks like the place to report a user is at commons:Commons:Administrators' noticeboard/User problems. I was unable to find a place where there's an equivalent to WP:CCI and I don't know if such a thing exists on that wiki or not.— Diannaa (talk) 22:50, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I have deleted lots of copyvios but we still need to assess those images that may be PD and the dubious more recent ones where there is doubt that Fvalzano is actually the original photographer. It appears that he operates the Frank Murray website and is generally under the impression that owning a copy of a photograph also makes him own its copyright. De728631 (talk) 00:02, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks,, I guess we can best ask Fvalzano which photographs he actually took (if any), and work out Australia PD for the pre-1930 ones? Kingsif (talk) 00:57, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
 * PD-Australia would actually work for any pre-1955 images granted that they're also out of copyright in the US. So yes, it would be very helpfuly of could answer which of those photos  were actually taken by himself and which were copied from books etc. If we don't get any answers soon, I'm afraid we'll have to start a summary deletion request at Commons for all his uploads. De728631 (talk) 15:50, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

It appears has decided to not engage - their last edits (after these pings) were to blank their talk page and delete their user page. I'll defer to your experience on how to handle to copyvio and this review. Kingsif (talk) 12:56, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Kingsif, thanks for taking this on; I'm sorry it seems to have ended with Fvalzano failure to respond. I'd say the first thing to do is to close this review as unsuccessful. This means removing the GA template from the talk page and replacing it with new entries under Article history showing this GAN attempt as having failed (with the date as whatever date you make those edits; five tildes will do the trick for that field), plus removing the GA icon from the article. For the text copyvios you mentioned at the top of this section, I'm going to ping Diannaa again, in the hopes that she can check them and whatever other checking she feels is necessary, and then do whatever needs to be done, whether that involves removing text and/or adding quotes and/or paraphrasing and/or hiding edits and/or templating the article. I'd leave the images to De728631 to sort out, since I know very little about Commons processes; if they are deleted from Commons, a bot will remove the images from the article. BlueMoonset (talk) 21:55, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I've cleaned up the prose, but won't be doing revision deletion, as some of the material was added six years ago.— Diannaa (talk) 13:13, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for taking care of this, Diannaa. BlueMoonset (talk) 05:41, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Other criteria

 * Lead generally a bit too long, cutting some info and combining some of the history paragraphs would help
 * Since Wyangala is Wiradjuri, shouldn't there be a native pronunciation as well as the English one? Also, put it in parentheses and indicate that it's English since it's using that IPA.
 * I don't think any of the wikilinks in the lead's final paragraph are needed
 * the use of the infobox location parameter is inappropriate
 * Section header 'The Wiradjuri people and European settlement' doesn't need the 'The'
 * 'impassable' and 'uninhabitable' - if these are direct quotations, please use quotation marks
 * Why are "occupation licenses" and "country lots" in italics?
 * The 'Gold and bushrangers' subection doesn't use images well - not all are needed and they bunch up and around block quotes, making the section hard to read and generally looking messy.
 * 'grew in the midst of the forest' - again, quotation marks, please
 * The format of the block quote is also undesirable. It would be better just incorporated into the sentence, and then maybe inline edited for grammar.
 * It does need some more reliable sources for the early history of Mt McDonald
 * Although, even the article says that Mt McDonald was a different settlement... why is there so much on it here and not split to its own article??
 * Even in Australian English, amongst others should be 'among others'
 * The grammar of The discovery of gold in other parts of New South Wales in the years prior to that found at Mount McDonald, led to increased bushranger activity. needs help. I think it's meant to be "The discovery of gold in other parts of New South Wales prior to the find at Mount McDonald led to increased bushranger activity." But, again, why do we care about other places?
 * Some introduction for the GR quote would be nice
 * Gardiner was to give the gang members a signal when it was safe to recover the gold. This was never to happen is an interesting use of tense, but ultimate more narrative than necessary. Simpler tense and explanation would give it a more encyclopedic tone.
 * Needs a comma after By the late 1800s
 * This Green family sound like they might be important to include in the settlement history
 * It's probably too authorial to start a subsection with a quote that has zero context, so can 1961–1971 dam upgrade please be fixed
 * with dam construction underway (see above) - they've read above, this parenthesis just disrupts the flow
 * Why is "Type 2C" in italics?
 * This article would really benefit from splitting off a History of Wyangala article. There's so many tiny details that are undue coverage for the main article, but would be fine for a detailed history.
 * The heading 'Murder' should be a little more specific
 * Structure is not typical of place articles. 'Community' seems to be invented as a catch-all for economy, culture, education, infrastructure, which usually all get their own section. In this, the history of the education establishments would all be under 'Education', for example.
 * I don't think the table for all the species in the area is typical, either.
 * I've not been looking at the prose in depth down here, hoping these sections are cleaned up when they're restructured, but introducing a part with The aforementioned is also a no.
 * 'Recent times' is an inappropriate section. It's just the latest part of the History.
 * As with 'Murder', can 'Earthquake' become a little more indicative

Overall
Besides the copyvio, there's major structural and coverage issues. Kingsif (talk) 16:20, 24 June 2020 (UTC)