Talk:Wyrd

Convulted
I think this article could use some work. It's a bit convoluted and not very clear, and missing some wider context to make it more than a dictionary entry.--Khendon 19:01, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I agree. And the Terry Pratchett thing is not a play on words. He spelt it properly where Shakespeare spelt it "weird". And Should Macbeth not be mentioned, BTW?

I have made a major overhaul of the page. I have included much more information and explanations, which are based on both my own intuitive understanding of such topics, as well as the view of modern day Heathens. I have rephrased some information, added more sections, and included a few appropriate, non-fictional links. Feel free to wikify as desired. I wrote this article as one who believes in these concepts, as I do; you may want to incorporate a more NPOV than I would provide, but don't water down the information.

Yogensha 00:21, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

what the vhelllll


 * I've made a couple of minor changes. I fixed a typo, re-arranged a sentence so that it made more sense (it didn't read right as it stood) and put in a wiki link for Heathen on the grounds that I'd not heard of Heathens as a modern revival movement until this entry.


 * Also, it's interesting that the way in which Wyrd describes our constraint by past action but also our freedom to influence our future within the context of this constraint resembles some of the ideas inherent in the concept of karma. I've flagged this up in the article.  Kantiandream 14:27, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Weird
I think we should move the article to weird.

Why? I put 'weird' into the search box and it redirects here anyway. Kantiandream 08:55, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

I think that there may be more suspicious candidates. Suspicious words:

Why? Ancient Vocal sound asking another for information on the wyrd. Communicated via the word. Seeking reason of the Word.

Word Spoken word. Communicating the information of the world. Remembering memories of complex neurological patterns, and Passing them through space via communication bio equipment to others. Sharing The Wyrd. or the world. consensus like.

Wierd meaning strange. (suspicious to string) in Danish wierd translates to underlig. Underlig literally means wierd. but also Below Like. The danish word "Rigtig" means Rig like. deriving from the RigVedas The proto-germanic Wotan, or in Asetru danish folklore "odin". Odin hang from the life tree and visited mimirs well. to where he sacrificed his one eye. The well of knowlegde which he used to see the future. Predicting the wyrd.

World (from scandinavian Verden meaning world. (also danish Væren (being), at vær: "to be") The World in which we live in. The intertwining Network of the Wyrd.

Well of Urd is not the same as Mimir's Well
[The Well of Urd is the holy well supposed to harbor the head of Mímir the giant] and [Odin dropped his eye into the well to gain the "Gift of Knowledge." Odin completed two other tasks to gain the "Gift of Poetry" and the "Mysteries of Nature."] are incorrect. These refer to the Well of Mimir, which is a different well located in a different world. I don't know of a source that claims they're the same. Snorri Sturlson clearly distinguishes them in the "Prose Edda" (Gylfaginning XV):

Three roots of the tree uphold it and stand exceeding broad: one is among the Æsir; another among the Rime-Giants, in that place where aforetime was the Yawning Void; the third stands over Niflheim, and under that root is Hvergelmir, and Nídhöggr gnaws the root from below. But under that root which turns toward the Rime-Giants is Mímir's Well, wherein wisdom and understanding are stored; and he is called Mímir, who keeps the well. He is full of ancient lore, since he drinks of the well from the Gjallar-Horn. Thither came Allfather and craved one drink of the well; but he got it not until he had laid his eye in pledge.

The third root of the Ash stands in heaven; and under that root is the well which is very holy, that is called the Well of Urdr; there the gods hold their tribunal.

See http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/pre/pre04.htm

Mark350125 06:35, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Clarification request
"Indeed, for a true comprehension it is key for the Wyrd to be embraced as a conceptual mystery, wherein the tides and tidings of time and timelessness flow and weave always, entwining the reticulum of the fabric of being and non-being.[1]" That is quite poetic, but does it have any meaning? For a reference it would be nice to explain what "reticulum of the fabric of being and non-being" means- if anything. 63.241.31.130 (talk) 21:52, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Do I really have to spoon feed EVERYONE, use a very good dictionary and meditate and pray on it!
 * Sadhana: Clarity follows upon the coat tails of dilligence
 * B9 hummingbird hovering (talk • contribs) 12:09, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
 * If I go to an encyclopedia looking for information I shouldn't be required to 'pray on it', or even find a 'very good dictionary': the info should be there, clearly explained. I agree that a true understanding of a complex subject can only come with study, but Wikipedia isn't a holy book.  I don't expect Wikipedia to tell me everything about a concept, but I want it to give me an overview; a starting point.  And what it does tell me I want it to tell me clearly, even if I don't meditate.  - 78.86.81.52 (talk) 17:28, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

How about a new section for "Wyrd in popular media"?
I know of at least one book series (Deverry Cycle/Katherine Kerr)that is wholly based on just this very concept of wyrd, and also mentions it quite a few times in that name. 79.181.108.148 (talk) 00:45, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Similar / related article on the German Wikipedia
More recently I wrote an article based on some German authors (Golther / Simek) over on the German Wikipedia. Especially Golther goes into detail about Germanic Mythology and draws more strict lines between Wurd (Wyrd/Urd) and other Norns, especially those at the "Well of Urd" as described in the Icelandic tradition. In this regard he also remarks that "Wurd" is the only one of the three Norns at the well who exists outside the Icelandic texts (something confirmed by Jakob Grimm) and that she thus may be regarded as all-Germanic, whereas Skuld and Verdandi are essentially concepts of Antiquity (Parcae) introduced by the writer(s) in Iceland. Golther also equates Wurd with more than just Fate, but also Fortunes, Destiny, and Death (Beowulf 477).

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wurd —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ynnis (talk • contribs) 23:00, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Ynnis (20.07.2009, 01.10 a.m.)

Reworked Article
In the spirit of 'being bold', I've taken my abject lack of knowledge of Norse mythology and had a bash at tidying this up a bit. In my defence, it's because I lack any real knowledge of the subject that I found the article so difficult to grasp: as it stood, and without intending any offence, it seemed more aimed at showcasing someone's understanding of the material than at explaining it to those of us not so educated. As a result, if you now find that any of the statements made are no longer accurate then please feel free to revert them or edit them yourself. The only thing I'd ask is that you please bear in mind that the purpose here is to explain the concept to someone who doesn't already understand it. Thus, the language used needs to be as clear as possible. I'm not advocating 'dumbing-down': just accessibility.

(I should also point out, for honesty's sake, that I adhere to a concept called 'Wyrd' myself, which I consider akin to 'Tao'; but I recognise that it's easy for reconstructionists and borrowers-of-other-people's-culture to misunderstand the true, historical concepts that they adopt. In that spirit, I've tried not to let my personal conception of Wyrd interfere with my edits, since I realise this article deals with the Old Norse concept.  If you think that this has compromised any of my edits then again, by all means amend them - but please still bear the above request in mind.)

So I have:

­- Generally reworded the 'Concept' section. In my view it was compromised by overly poetic language at the expense of clarity.

- Taken out the reference to proto-Germanic 'Naudiz'. This is because this article (Wyrd) does not fully explain the application of the term 'Naudiz' to the concept being described. Also, the 'Naudiz' article itself is a stub and it's not immediately clear from that article what relevance it has to this one. The association with 'constraint' is apparent, but I felt it would be far simpler just to say 'constraint' and trust that readers understood what that meant.

- Exchanged some frankly rather fanciful words for more down-to-earth alternatives. For example, I've replaced 'congruent to' with 'the same as'. Although I know it's not strictly a synonym, in context it provides the same information in more familiar, clearer language.

- Reworded the section about the Norns, and excised some references. This was the section that seemed most intended to demonstrate someone's familiarity with Old Norse than to educate my uncultured self in how the Norns relate to Wyrd.

- Shrivenzale (talk) 14:55, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with Shrivenzale. (S)he has made a pretty good start at translating the article into plain English, but the section entitled "Concept" is still, to the average reader, complete gobbledegook. Pretentious, meaningless phrases such as "entwining the reticulum of the fabric of being and non-being" simply don't have a place in a lay person's encyclopaedia. Could someone who both (1) understands the subject and (2) isn't simply trying to show off their flowery prose please try and make this article accessible? ~dom Kaos~ (talk) 02:57, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Translation links need checking
For any who know the languages in the translation links, please confirm that they correspond to Wyrd and not Urðr. I removed the ones for Urðarbrunnr, but I'm not going to remove the translation links for the others if I can't say with certainty that they are not about Wyrd or both Wyrd and Urðr. LokiClock (talk) 18:28, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Checked:

Merge with Urðr
has requested that this article be merged with Urðr. Discussion is taking place at Talk:Urðr. bloodofox: (talk) 20:09, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Merge with German: Wurd
It should be merge with German / Deutsch Wurd, since this article here is primarily about the personification of fate and not about the mythological figure of Norse Mythology Urðr:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wurd —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ynnis (talk • contribs) 20:57, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

you don't mean "merge", you mean "adjust the interwiki link". I have done that. --dab (𒁳) 13:29, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Urth?
Why does Urth redirect here when it doesn't mention the term anywhere? --Brian Fenton (talk) 16:51, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

wærdo??
A according to page 230 of "A handy Anglo-Saxon Dictionary" (link = http://books.google.com/books?id=H99ZAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA230) the term "wærdo" means something uncommon, a wonder, or monster. Page 251 of the same lexicon has "Wyrd" with "1. Weird" but that says the goddess fate, etc. Is there confirmation that our modern English usage for "weird" (meaning "odd") derives from this "wyrd" and not rather than from "wærdo"??Charlie (talk) 04:14, 2 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes. If you read the article, you'll see that we can trace the history of weird back, with the first occurrence of the meaning of "odd" being as late as 1815. Unless you can provide some evidence of connection between the Old English wærdo and the modern English weird, I don't see why we'd hypothesize a connection. It's not like the period between 1050 and 1815 are poorly documented linguistically.--Prosfilaes (talk) 04:41, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

"Beyond" vs. "Out of" law
Hi,

I see that the article (writer(s)) choose to interpret "out, from, beyond" as "beyond", i.e making "that which is (according to Urd)" something beyond the law. This is an unreferenced interpretation; as unreferenced interpretations go, wouldn't it make 60 000 times more sense to interpret the necessity of fate as originating "from law" (or even "out of law") parallell to a concept like "karma" (understood as a metaphysical version of the law of cause and effect) (not that I'm a Buddhist) (nor that I am, like, against, like, Buddhism)?

UNODIR, I'll change it soon.

T

85.166.162.202 (talk) 03:32, 30 March 2014 (UTC)


 * See, this is not Buddhism--that's a religion a continent away from this one. And the appropriate response to unreferenced statements that may be OR is not to add unreferenced statements that are clearly uninformed OR.--Prosfilaes (talk) 20:43, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Macbeth
I would like to petition for either the removal of the Macbeth reference, or to edit it with a sub-category. I ask for this because the "weird" Shakespeare uses is not a derivation of "Wyrd" but a pronunciation of the word "weyward" (modern: wayward). This word comes from the middle english word "awayward" meaning "turned away from" and was used in the text to describe that the three "sisters" were apostates of the church. While they do appear to have prescient visions of Macbeth's future, it is unlikely that Shakespeare would have used that aspect of their character to describe them, given that the play was written or edited to attract the attentions of King James. Erasychthon (talk) 08:34, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Better to add the alternative derivation, with good sources. I'd drop the questionable OR about what Shakespeare or King James might have thought. Johnbod (talk) 11:51, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
 * This derivation is not at all widely accepted. However, if you can add it in context and with reliable sources, feel free. &#58;bloodofox: (talk) 00:49, 5 August 2018 (UTC)