Talk:XHDEH-TDT

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RFC: Redirect to Las Estrellas

 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Should this article be redirected to its parent network, Las Estrellas? Bearcat (talk) 16:12, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Rationale
Over the years, a lot of messy content has been created pertaining to television in Central America, under the mistaken assumption that it worked the same way as television does in the United States and Canada. In the latter countries, there are local entities called "stations", which affiliate with separate national entities called "networks" to provide some (but not all) of their programming — these local stations have their own separate noteworthy histories, and usually produce some local programming (e.g. a local newscast) separately from the networked portion of their schedules, and thus pass WP:NMEDIA as legitimate topics for standalone articles.

In Mexico, however, that's not how things work; although Mexico City and a few of the other large metropolitan cities (e.g. Tijuana) have standalone US-style "stations", the vast majority of non-metropolitan television "stations" are just straight repeaters of a Mexico City station with no separate local programming and no noteworthy broadcast histories of their own to report, and are not standalone "stations" in the US sense. Accordingly, the vast majority of non-metropolitan television stations in Mexico do not pass NMEDIA, and a cleanup project is underway to redirect them to their programming source in accordance with NMEDIA's provisions for repeater transmitters.

In this case, however, there was a prior AFD which resulted in a keep consensus because of an error in understanding how these stations actually operate — and accordingly, it can't just be instantly redirected, and a wider discussion is needed to review the original consensus. Bearcat (talk) 16:12, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

My notability standards
As the editor most involved with Mexican TV articles in the last two and a half years, I've been generally operating on a pair of notability standards stricter than those in NMEDIA for Mexican TV stations, one of which a station must meet to have an article:


 * The station must produce or have produced in the past significant local programming. XHCH-TDT and XHTAO-TDT pass this test. XHCH in the 80s was a local station for Imevisión, one of just three total nationwide, with a primarily local lineup, though it is now just another Azteca 13 transmitter. Multimedios stations like XHTAO usually have regular local programming including news. Additionally, all state networks are notable (one article per network) as they are also prolific local program producers. Stations currently producing local programming, such as XHNSS-TDT, also merit articles. However, Azteca transmitters whose only local programs are short news opt-outs (which are common on Azteca 13 — time is built into the schedule to allow the larger local stations to air news) and lack other local history do not qualify.
 * The station must have historical significance, especially separate from its network. XHTJB-TDT clears this bar, as its construction and sign-on required extensive international coordination and led to documented objections from American TV stations. XHFN-TDT came to Imevisión from CEMPAE, an agency that owned no other TV stations. XEDK-TDT, while now a network repeater, passes both tests: it used to be a local station for Guadalajara that, in the early 60s and through much of the 70s, was among the only independent stations in Mexico. XHTM-TDT qualifies because of both its unusual 1980s callsign swap and its historical status as Mexico's third TV station (and the first of hundreds of full-power repeaters). However, I do not believe XEIPN-TDT qualifies, as its history is pretty much that of the network it birthed.

Some defunct stations clear these bars, such as XELD-TV, XHJMA-TV and XHK-TV. But there aren't many of those.

It's worth noting that it's generally easier to meet this bar the closer you get to the US border, for various reasons (some of which are more economic than anything).

The main issue is that this consensus needs to be enshrined in order to remove some of the last articles that honestly have no right to exist. Do XHDEH-TDT or XHCDE-TDT offer any significant information? No. There's not really any to be had. Both XHDEH and XHCDE (which serve the same city) were created as part of very large concessions of TV stations (one had 95 stations, the other had 62) that were designed pretty much solely to help Televisa expand. Very few of the resultant stations wound up with any local content.

The vast majority of TV stations in Mexico have no studios, merely a transmitter shack and a tower. For instance,XHLRT-TDT in San Luis Río Colorado, Sonora. They have no claim to notability outside of a redirect for the callsign and listing in the various lists and precious few navboxes that are appropriate.

If you find yourself realizing that not many TV stations in the country can meet either of the two bars, you're also realizing just how centralized Mexican television really is. There will probably be room for more articles once IFT-6, an auction to create 148 new TV stations that can be pursued individually, comes along, because IFT-6 is expected to result in new local TV stations. But that's down the road. Raymie (t • c) 17:39, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Actually, those notability standards aren't nearly as far stricter than NMEDIA as you seem to think they are — although some people do have an oversimplified understanding of NMEDIA as conferring automatic notability as a standalone topic on every licensed television transmitter that exists at all, that's not accurate: NMEDIA actually does demand a standard very nearly indistinguishable from what you proffer above, and dictates that pure repeaters get redirects rather than standalone articles. The issue here isn't so much that NMEDIA is actually loose enough to permit standalone articles about these repeater stations; it's that somebody who didn't understand how Mexican television actually works erroneously presumed that these were originating local stations rather than repeaters. Bearcat (talk) 18:59, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * That makes sense, and that's totally the problem (Mexican TV is so centralized that it's weird to Americans). Really, XHDEH and XHCDE are among the last big pains in this category since other articles have been converted to redirects. That and XEIPN-TDT, which other editors agree is superfluous. Raymie (t • c) 00:11, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

Survey

 * Redirect to Las Estrellas If it is just a repeater station with no original programming, then a redirect to the main network is appropriate. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 05:53, 14 January 2017 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.