Talk:XIII (comics)

Merge
See Talk:XIII (game) for User:ZayZayEM's merge proposal. Jordi·✆ 01:36, 1 May 2005 (UTC)


 * XIII (game) and XIII (comic) are both the same story, just different mediums. The comic article in particular cannot hold its own very well in its current form. The could be merged to XIII, and if necessary at a later date XIII (disambiguation) could be created (as of now only "XIII is Roman numerals for 13" is listed as a seperate idea).--ZayZayEM 04:51, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * XIII is disambiguation page now. (not by my own work, I'm just stating what I see) Phils 21:43, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * A disambiguation page to the two articles I think need to be merged. There is no need for this disambiguation page if the two articles are merged. Many multi-genre fictions (or non-fictions) utilize a central portal page, and only create spin off pages as article content becomes unwieldly. The XIII (comic) page has barely any content (despite being the original form of the media) and I think it would be best to merge the two.--ZayZayEM 00:51, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
 * But the XIII comic stands alone, we just don't have much information on it because it's not in English. Andre ( talk ) 01:24, May 1, 2005 (UTC)
 * I disagree with merging these two pages. They're not the same. They're different, or rather, different enough to warrant their own articles. They merely need to be expanded. K1Bond007 01:25, May 1, 2005 (UTC)
 * Disagree merging. Story is different (the game is an adaption of the first five issues of the comic with notable storyline deviations). The number page (XIII) should be kept as a disambiguation page and not merged with either article. Jordi·✆ 01:31, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Example of similar article: Berserk which contains bothe the anime and manga although reasonably different (anime deals with one volume of manga only, entire chracters and plot points missing) on the one single page - because they are the same story - and there is not enough information at present to warrant seperate articles for either one. I would not be against the article being farmed out again when information is increased, but at present they do not.--ZayZayEM 01:45, 1 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I've done some expansion for the comic. If I can track down my collection, I'll see about adding more on the actual comic itself (i.e. publication dates etc.), as is done for The Adventures of Tintin. The game really is separate and should remain so. Jordi·✆ 02:24, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I've noticed, so I guess I'll withdraw this request--ZayZayEM 00:14, 2 May 2005 (UTC) ((NB: I'll remove this if nobody adds to the discussion over the next few days -- if you decide to do it - put a copy on the talk pages of the three XIII pages))

X I I I
Why is XIII written as X I I I in the article? It hurts my eyes... Riki 13:38, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Presidents
There's a thing that confuses me about the succession of presidents in the series. I'd love to see this cleared up (on this talk page):


 * William Sheridan is assinated
 * His Vice President Galbrain becomes acting president
 * Walter Sheridan, brother of William Sheridan, runs in the next election and wins the presidency
 * Walter Sheridan is killed and his Vice President (can't remember the name) becomes president

Now, my question is, which of these were Democrats and which were Republicans? In volume 13, it is revealed that William Sheridan is a Democrat, and his running mate Galbrain is described as a typical "soutern ticket" conservative. In the events that describe the presidential campaign between Walter Sheridan and Galbrain, the candidate's speeches make it obvious that Galbrain runs a conservative campaign whereas Sheridan campaigns for liberal causes (although he later turns out to attempt a military coup to install a neo-fascist regime and start WW3).

Now my question is: what party did Galbrain belong to? If he was a conservative democrat, how come he ran in a general election against another Democrat, and where was the republican candidate? If he was a republican, why was he a democrat's running mate? Has that happened in the recent past? I know this is fiction, I just wanted to know if there's a (canon?) answer. I have all the books and they don't seem to address the issue. Wouter Lievens 09:33, 7 September 2006 (UTC)


 * This is an interesting questiobnwith no real answer, as it has not been commented on in the series itself. The only facts we have are that William Sheridan ("John F. Kennedy") was Democrat, and so must be Galbrain ("Lyndon B. Johnson").
 * It seems to me that Walter Sheridan is also supposed to be democrat, so one explanation is that the election was represented mostly by an interparty conflict (Galbrain representing the conservatives, Wally the more liberal democrats). In this view, the republican party was not represented in the election at all, presumably because a democrat victory was assured.
 * Another possibility is that Wally ran on a bipartisan ticket, in which case his (unnamed) vice president was a republican. This means that the current XIII US president is this unnamed republican.
 * While this has not happened in the US yet, there were during the last election rumours that John Kerry was courting John McCain: if this had gone through, they would have run a bipartisan ticket against the Bush regime. So it is not unthinkable. -- Jordi· ✆ 10:16, 7 September 2006 (UTC)


 * According to this fan site, Galbrain is explicitely said to be the Republican candidate in the book S.P.A.D.S., whereas both Sheridans are Democrats. Their conclusion... Van Hamme goofed this up! Thermaland 22:05, 31 December 2006 (UTC)


 * As far as I remember, Galbrain is not explicitely said to be Republican in SPADS, and the website doesn't says that. Obvioulsy Van Hamme mistaken about it (other details in the books shaws he doesn't know well the U.S.). Nevertheless, there is no hard evidence that proves that Walter "Wally" Sheridan and Galbrain are not from the same party. Rob1bureau (talk) 03:07, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Requested move
Propose that It be moved per the Naming conventions (comics) guideline, to fall in line with all the others using (comics). Anyone have strong feelings and good reason why not? M URGH  disc.  23:11, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose: It is a comic book series, not a random element from comics. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 23:25, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment. Hence, the agreed general disambiguation phrase used for articles related to comic books, graphic novels, comic strips, and comics creators is "(comics)".  M URGH   disc.  10:19, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually, in this case, since it's disabiguating between another media type (a game, in this case), a case could be made that (comic book) is the correct disambiguation. See: Naming conventions (comics). However, since "game" is not one of the media types discussed previously (and is not mentioned in the NC), one could also suggest that (comics) is the correct disambiguation. I think personally, I would lean towards Naming conventions (precision) and suggest (comic book) as acceptable in this case. Though more discussion would obviously be welcome. - jc37 11:31, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

- [Imported discussion]:(clarifying) - Disabiguation of XIII could go either way, depending on if we consider a "game" a media type. (I'm leaning towards "yes", and so (comic book) would be appropriate in that case.) Hope this helps : ) - jc37 11:34, 4 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks, it does. But I'm not sure I understand the reasoning in the XIII comment, why the existence of a derived computer game (XIII (video game)) should be reason to deviate from the guideline. M URGH   disc.  11:58, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not "deviating". We have a "general rule" to use (comics) when disambiguating between comics-related articles and other articles. We have several exceptions to that general rule, including media type. The question simply is whether we consider a computer or video game to be another media type. I think the answer is and should be: yes. See: Superman_in_popular_culture for a list of such media, or for another example, Snoopy (computer game). So based on that, we default to the rule listed under Naming conventions (comics), which suggests that the disambiguation phrase to be used is (comic book). - jc37 12:08, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah. I see your point then, but don't agree ;) As far as I know, the XIII drawn comic book series has been published in several forms but never as one tome. (comic book) would be a fair name for a redirect page, while currently (comics) isn't one. Since you mention it, Snoopy is a unique article name, Snoopy (comics) is unnecessary, Snoopy (computer game) is either properly named or will move to Snoopy (video game), so I still think XIII (comics) is the correct article name. M URGH   disc.  12:54, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Considering that the video game actually is based on the comic book, the question of media type becomes rather moot. One is the video game, the other is the comic book. Technically, we could have a disambiguation page called XIII (comics) listing the comic book article and the video game article. - jc37 13:06, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes one could, but since XIII already is a disambig, is there a pressing reason to make (comics) into a a sub-disambiguation page? The already well-linked derivative video game isn't something one would look for on a comics disambig, like something needed for Neutron (comics) for instance.  M URGH   disc.  14:09, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Perhaps not at this moment, but I was actually attempting to show how the disambiguation system "works", by showing how the various pieces "fit into place" : ) - jc37 01:52, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, but to clarify your view on the above decision, you wrote above you support this article remain XIII (comic book) and not be moved to XIII (comics)? I still can't see how this a satisfying name choice. (comic book) is imprecise and only partially descriptive, while (comics) is a concept, and the agreed WPC disambiguative term. M URGH   disc.  11:22, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Quoting myself (from directly above):
 * "So based on that, we default to the rule listed under Naming conventions (comics), which suggests that the disambiguation phrase to be used is (comic book)."
 * Please click the link and read. If you still don't understand, I'll be happy to further clarify : ) - jc37 12:07, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Please now, the above quote and link are, as you write, directly above. If you would appreciate the "circular" appearance of how you stand on this issue. You later wrote " Considering that the video game actually is based on the comic book, the question of media type becomes rather moot". M URGH   disc.  12:30, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Apparently you read "moot" to mean the reverse of what was intended. In other words, I held those words to be self-evident : ) - Well, apparently they weren't. To answer your comment above directly: The use of the disambiguation phrase "(comic book)" is a result of previous consensus. What I was attempting to convey by the "moot" comment is that the whole point of disambiguation is to differentiate between subjects of articles, by differentiating between articles. And since the video game is directly related to the comic book, they are both comics-related subjects, but just of different media, hence why we default to the section involving disambiguating between media types. They are both of type "(comics)" (since they are both comics-related), so neither should use that as disambiguation. This is why I specifically asked that you read the section, since you keep suggesting that something which is part of the naming convention violates the naming convention : ) - Hopefully this more clearly clarifies. - jc37 12:52, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes it does. I took "moot" to infer "redundant", therefore removing the reason for adding a second disambiguation page with a second link to the dervative article about the video game, and cause to utilise the imprecise (comic book).  M URGH   disc.  13:25, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

RM summary
So, the RM suggestion still stands. As XIII has no need of specific sub-disambiguation, XIII "game" isn't a parallel media type subject that would be confused with the XIII of comics, which not only is the title of this series but also the name used for the main character, I mean the move is still appropriate. M URGH  disc.  09:57, 22 April 2007 (UTC)


 * This is what WP:NCC says - i was just going to move this but thought I'd check the talk page first): "(comics)" is the first level of disambiguation, for a title you then move to publisher and then to type (note that distinguishing between media types is when you need to tell the difference between a graphic novel, a comic book and say a comic strip all of the same name). Also is it even legitimate to describe a Franco-Belgian comic as a comic book? Even if we'd reached the end of the line and needed to use type to disambiguate this I am unsure "(comic book)" would be the right one. Which makes moving it to a more neutral terms seem a good idea. (Emperor (talk) 22:04, 6 July 2008 (UTC))

Useless trivia
Just feeling a need to share a random discovery/connection: the SPADS (SPecial Assault Destroying Section) military group in the XIII story appears to be named for the SPAD S.XIII, a french WWI fighter bi-plane. --Mogens69 21:57, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

storyline
Hi, there is several inaccuracies and omissions in the storyline, but I prefer not to fix it myself, my english is too bad. Could someone else fix it ? Here what it is :
 * XIII departs to the city of Eastown, where he is recognised by many as Steve Rowland. No, Jake Shelton. But the killers have a picture to identify him. On this picture, there's also a woman (at this moment, we don't know if it's his wife, sister or just a friend) and when going to Eastow, XIII learns that she's Kim Rowland, Steve Rowland's widowed. In the same volume, Amos says that Jake Shelton is an assumed name but doesn't know the real name of XIII.


 * In the second volume XIII's search for his identity leads to his capture by army General Carrington, who confirms XIII's identity as Steve Rowland, and reveals to XIII Rowland was an operative working under Carrington.  It is important to say that Steve Rowland is officially dead during an operation, and that's why everybody, including Carrigton, is amazed to see him coming back. Omission : in this volume XIII meet Jones, a beautiful black woman, lieutenant of Carrington. They will become lovers and she gonna help him in his adventures.


 * Meanwhile Amos and Carrington meet up, and they begin to realize that XIII is not Rowland and not the murderer of president Sheridan, but a body double. Actually, at this moment, Amos think XIII is not Rowland, but a body double, but is the murderer of president Sheridan. He think XIII took the identity and the face of Steve Rowland because nobody would accuse a dead person and then, if ever he was recognized as Steve Rowland, he could change his face again. after an encounter with one of the Mongoose's killers, Irina Svetlanova. Irina Svetlanova's first appearance is volume 8 "XIII against I". I remove.


 * Amos learns that Carrington invented the Tanner identity, and finds that XIII's true identity was Jason Fly. I think this part should be expanded. This is where we discover who is XIII (or at least, a part of his true identity) and why he has the face of Steve Rowland. Carrington explains to Amos that XIII was hired by Henry Sheridan, the father of William Sheridan, to find out the whole conspiracy who killed his son. We also discover that Kim Rowland is the daughter of Carrington. Thanks to her, they knew, but too late, that her husband Steve Rowland was a part of the conspiracy to kill Sheridan and instore a fascist putsch in the USA. After Steve Rowland was killed by the Mongoose, Henry Sheridan and his friends (Carrington, Heidegger...) made up a plan to expose the conspiracy : make believe that Steve Rowland was still alive so that the killers would be captured and interrogate. That's why XIII, now known as Jason Fly had some plastic surgery to look like Steve Rowland, and why he had this number XIII tattooed. Unfortunately, the plan was a big failure. XIII was easily trapped by the Mongoose who shot him on a boat. That's why XIII was found amnesic on a beach. Beginning of the story.


 * XIII uses the presidential backing to track down Kim Rowland, and learns she is General Carrington's daughter.  No, he already knew. Even if we never see Carrington saying it to XIII, it is obvious that he knows. On the other hand, he didn't know the love affair between Sheridan and Kim and, above all, that Kim had a child of Sheridan. He start to think that maybe Kim betrayed everyone because she was threatened by Sheridan of never seeing her son again. That's why she would have marry Steve Rowland (to keep an eye on him, know if he could be the good person to kill the president), why she told about the conspiracy (Sheridan used the conspiracy only to kill his brother. After that, he didn't need it anymore), why XIII was trapped by the Mongoose so easily after being "changed" in Steve Rowland (Kim betrayed him). Ok, I agree this part is rather long and not necessary. Although he cannot prove it, XIII swears he will make Sheridan pay, and leaves the nation. He doesn't say he will make him pay, does he ? Sheridan tells him that, thanks to XIII, nobody will never be able to prove that he was number I and repeats his offer of becoming his special agent. As an answer, XIII knock him and leaves the country.


 * Eventually Maria becomes president of the country, despite a plot by the National Security Agency, led by Frank Giordino, to have her and XIII killed. No, there's no plot of the NSA nor Giordino in this volume. It would be interesting to add that we learned in "Red Alert" that XIII spoke spanish fluently; and in "The Jason Fly File" that he disappeared during six years after his College years : he was a "normal" student, healthy, brilliant, devoted to sport, etc. and when he reappeared, six years later, he was a trained soldier and spoke spanish fluently. Only one person knew what happened during this six years : Heidegger, the friend of Henry Sheridan (and chief of the NSA, at the times) who hired him to "become" Steve Rowland. But all the details were removed of his file. To sum up, if we don't talk about the Minerco (as a trivia, his CEO has the face of Jean Van Hamme), the military dictatorship, the revolution, the treason of the brother... We could say this : at the end of theses two stories, XIII learns that he spent theses six years as Kelly Brian (we don't know why he took this name yet) in Cuba and then in Costa Verde, fell in love with Maria, married her, became "El Cascador" the hero of the revolutionnaries, tried to take off the government but was captured by the militaries. He was about to be executed, but Heidegger bribed one of the coronel (Peralta) to repatriate Jason Fly/Kelly Brian in the USA. The coronel secretly replace XIII by somebody else and the government break news that "El Cascador" was dead.


 * While in exile in Costa Verde, XIII and his father Mullway decide to attempt to find a treasure hidden somewhere in Mexico by their ancestors. The treasure should be mentionned in the part about "Three Silver Matches".


 * Meanwhile Giordino fabricates evidence revealing XIII as one Seamus O'Neill, an IRA operative who trained under Fidel Castro.  Before the two last volumes, we're not sure if the evidence were fabricated or if it's true. Giordino claims that Seamus O'Neill, an IRA operative, came in the USA under the assumed name of Kelly Brian. He met Jason Fly at the University, they became friends but one day Kelly killed Jason Fly. Then he leaved the country and went to Cuba in order to become a soldier and to obtain weapons and help for the IRA revolution. XIII refuse to believe he's Seamus O'Neil, but when asked why Jason Fly would have gone to Cuba as Kelly Brian, he got no answer. This last question about his identity is answered in the two last volumes. (MyMyHeyHey) 21:13, 22 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Having read all the series, I agree with all MyMyHeyHey remarks. If I understand well, there is no English translation of the series but the three first books ? Rob1bureau (talk) 03:11, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Boardgame
There is a XIII boardgame, which is quite good as I've heard. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.145.100.34 (talk) 08:54, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

XIII Mystery albums
Should there be an entire new page for the new side albums  or can we just add a section onto here? Stewartdc8 (talk) 06:47, 30 October 2008 (UTC)


 * As long as there are only a few and not much can/should be said about them, I would add them as a section here. Spinning them off into their own article later always remains an option, but is not yet necessary. Fram (talk) 07:43, 30 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, and creating a redirect from XIII Mystery to here is obviously a good option in that case. Fram (talk) 07:44, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

C-Class rated for Comics Project
As this B-Class article has yet to receive a review, it has been rated as C-Class. If you disagree and would like to request an assesment, please visit WikiProject_Comics/Assessment and list the article. Hiding T 14:55, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Characters section and other
We should probably create a character section, outlining only the main characters. or is it not really necessary?

Also, wondering whether anyone would like to create individual pages for each issue? It would help cut down on the length of the plot section on this page as well. Stewartdc8 (talk) 02:57, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

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