Talk:Xbox 360/Archive 1

Remove old rumors and speculations?
Hey should we remove some of the old rumor posts and tech rumors since there is a lot that was answered e3 and post e3, this could clear out a lot of space and make way for more discussion about what is currently known and what is to come? If not then thats ok. -Tik July 3 1154 am
 * I wouldn't mind removing whole sections if they are no longer relevent. What you could do it post in the relevent section and say you want to remove it because it is old and if nobody objects then delete it a week later.--Thax 4 July 2005 16:57 (UTC)


 * Just as an update if facts are already proven and in print as such, there is no need to bring up old rumors and prove that they were false. Going back and saying things like the Xbox 360 is a handheld device but was later found to be a console doesnt give people information just clogs up the article.


 * User gspawn: Does anyone know how to archive old talk and start from scratch? Lots of talk contained here would be useful in a historical sense, but most of this discussion page is either POV (360 and Dreamcast) or outdated info (most of backward compatibility, since the method for compatibility has been detailed in the media). The page could use a backup of these tons of info, and then begin talk anew- leaving out POV points, hopefully. Especially with the system release coming so soon, most of the items recieving discussion now will be thoroughly detailed soon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.155.157.141 (talk • contribs)
 * See how to refactor and how to archive a Talk Page. -- ReyBrujo 02:55, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Xbox 360 and Dreamcast
Is it just me, or does the Xbox 360 controller look like a rip off of the old Dreamcast controller? The anologue stick, with a digital pad beneath it, ABXY buttons. What do you think? Saxsux 15:11, May 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * I remember people saying exactly the same thing about the original Xbox controller.Sockatume 15:57, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I'd say most of the conventional button arrangements have been covered, there's not really much room for innovation, short of the rumoured Nintendo Revolution "buttonless" controller.Tzarius 00:20, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Its just you, the design is almost identicle to that of the PS2, but the PS3 controller looks like a trident, seems my duke xbox controller is second best to beating the odd hooligan, when I get a PS3 I can poke em.Wolf online 12:06, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Just to further add to this: the dreamcast controller was based on an analog controller created for the Sega Saturn for the game Nights.

Backward compatibility
Does anyone know what this actually means? Binary backward compatibility sounds highly unlikely given the CPU change -- emulation would probably be infeasible. Are they sure they don't mean that they're going to maintain API backward compatibility so most games can simply be recompiled for the PPC target and re-released as "classic" Xbox games?


 * They can currently emulate the Xbox in the Xbox360, however there are legal obsticles to be able to emulate certain functionality that the Nvidia GPU and Intel CPU currently offer. Microsoft is in an awkward position because they don't own the designs for all the components of the current Xbox, a mistake they rectified with the 360. In order to offer backwards compatibility on key games Microsoft has 2 choices:
 * 1. License the Nvidia and Intel technologies to emulate the features required to offer backwards compatibility.
 * 2. Preinstall compilied executables for key games right on the hard-drive, and use the assets from the original DVD.
 * In my opinion if Microsoft did license the emulation capabilities they would offer backwards support for the pretty much the entire collection. This makes it look like they will provide compability executables right on the 360, which could also benefit from things like better frame rates. - TF
 * It looks like they will be doing it the hard way and emulating the old xbox, this should offer backwards compatibility on the entire xbox collection: Xbox Engineer Blog
 * It is good news, althought there may not be enough time to get all games perfect at launch, expect updates to the emulator through live. - TF
 * Gamesindustry is now stating that "Current-gen Xbox games to be "recompiled" for Xbox 360", which suggests that Microsoft will go for option 2. This also has the additional advantage of having the games more easily emulated in the future because they would be compilied for a platform they have all the rights to. E3: Xbox 360 "backwards compatibility" explained- Trevor Fuson
 * Doesn't "recompiled" imply that the games will have to be remade (from the original source code) and rereleased to work on the 360 hardware? Sockatume 17:46, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, part of the recompiled code need to be downloaded on LIVE marketplace service, this code write in the hard disk and you just need insert the Xbox game on drive and waiting few minutes for install.
 * Not exactly. From what I understand, it's merely a recompiled EXE that has to be downloaded through Live, not an actual recompiled game and the game is not "emulated". Labeling 360 as backward compatible with the original Xbox might be a ploy. My understanding is that Microsoft can't emulate Xbox graphics because Nvidia owns the licenses to the Xbox graphics, meaning that they can't be fully emulated without a royalty. K1Bond007 21:17, May 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh, right, I should've realised that. They can just lift the old PAK files or whatever the Xbox equivalent for audio/textures/models is from the game disk. Sockatume 22:15, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Looks like there won't be recompiling going on: "No, you do not need to recompile your Xbox games". I hope that is the final word we hear on this one. -TF
 * This has nothing to do with what we're talking about. This only makes the claim that you won't have to buy the same game again. What I'm saying here is that you take a game like Halo that you own for Xbox already and load it up on Xbox 360. Assuming you haven't done this already -> Xbox Live boots up and goes out and downloads a recompiled EXE onto your Xbox 360's hard drive (assuming again that Microsoft has made this EXE). This EXE then replaces the one that is on the actual game disc, and thus the game is recompiled. Thats how I imagine it to -generally- work and as I said earlier and what that link you posted implies is that 360 will emulate Xbox games. As previously stated, it can't for legal reasons. I could be wrong, I suppose, for both - the 2nd I'm almost positive. K1Bond007 05:54, May 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * What if you don't have Live?Ablaze 09:09, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
 * My bet is that the hard drive will come preloaded with only the most popular games such as Halo and Halo 2. Then the rest through Live whenever, if ever, they become available. K1Bond007 15:46, May 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * They could also be distributed on magazine coverdisks. Sockatume 17:48, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I found another Blog: Matt's Blog - Trevor Fuson
 * "Yeah, I have no idea where the press is getting these rumors, or why they haven’t retracted their stories after Microsoft PR contacted them with corrections. It’s just a complete fabrication. Major Nelson (and the other Microsoft employees) are telling the truth here, the press is not. The Xbox 360 is backwards compatible with Xbox games. We’re not recompiling games (do you think publishers would give us their source code?), which would be a far more complex task than just flipping a switch. And we’re certainly not going to ask anyone to repurchase games they already own (another false rumor I’ve seen in the press). Hope that clears it up, Software Design Engineer Xbox / Microsoft" look this.
 * That is my blog, thank you very much! Yes, I contacted the guy in charge of backwords compatibility, and I left his name out in my post(I wasn't sure...).  DoomBringer 03:51, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Source ATI interview. Key points:


 * They have implemented compatibility purely through emulation (at the CPU level). It looks like emulation profiles for each game are going to be stored on the hard drive, and I imagine that a certain number will ship with the system. They already have the infrastructure to distribute more profiles via Live, and more and more can be made available online periodically.


 * Emulating the CPU isn’t really a difficult task. They have three 3GHz cores, so emulating one 733MHz chip is pretty easy. The real bottlenecks in the emulation are GPU calls – calls made specifically by games to the nVIDIA hardware in a certain way. General GPU instructions are easy to convert – an instruction to draw a triangle in a certain way will be pretty generic. However, it’s the odd cases, the proprietary routines that will cause hassle.


 * So, although the reasons are different (storing those compatability-enabling profiles that Amiga emulation fans will no doubt be familiar with, rather than downloading executables), it seems like we were close to the mark with our speculation. Presumably, though, those "profiles" will allow compatability with more than one title each; there will broad profiles which work with more simply-programmed games, and more specific profiles for titles which do odd stuff. Sockatume 14:10, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

EGM recently wrote that MS will indeed use software emulation to run there games and this will enable there games to run, but after reading the above blog by the software engineer im not so sure what to think. They will probably release the updates through the next live and the next xbox magazine. If anyone can solidify the info then specify a source so we can check it out.

I like Linux as much as the next guy however...
The statement about not having a hard drive on its basic unit: "and hindering Xbox Linux (http://www.xbox-linux.org/) from running" is not proven. Microsoft hasn't stated that there will be no hard drive or the rumor of having multiple versions of the next Xbox. I will only get rid of Xbox Linux statement because it is not a NPOV. The hard drive could also be used as pirated tool. I think Microsoft would be worried about game piracy that takes money away from them with license fees than having an user using a different operating system on their video game console system. --Anonymous Cow 19:18, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I agree with cows statement about hard drive use for piracy, most of the people i know (who have the right know how) use or know about using the hard drive for mods and emulators. Recently i read an article about miscrosoft employeeing a company to create security measures for xbox 2, this is not official but given the easily modified xbox reputation i would believe microsoft has the resources to do it. -Tik

I agree, running Linux on the XBox is NOT what Microsoft is concerned with. They are concerned that a hard drive makes copying games fun and easy. While Microsoft as a whole is pretty anti-Linux, I hardly think that is the focus of the people designing the game system. MicahMN | Talk 07:48, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

Detailed Xbox 2 specs leak
There is a "purported leak" at. I don't know how real it is, but it sounds interesting and is quite detailed. Thue | talk 13:55, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I heard from some game developers for the next gen consoles that they are using high end Nvidia chips for dev and testing because ATI ones do not support some features that will be used...

-anon.

Hey guys, ATI just recently released a statement that the Xbox 2 will be more powerful (i cant remember in which respect) than ps2, im guessing in terms of overall or graphics. I read about it on www.gamespot.com and was wondering whether this was true, I dont understand this next generation of specs so i cant figure it out for myself


 * The general agreement from most well informed people is that both systems will be evenly matched. The key differences between the two systems is the unified shader and eDRAM daughter die for the x360. MS has taken the approach of making it relatively easy to get good performance out of the console. The PS3 may be a little more complex, but if the developers are able to overcome this complexity the performance may exceed what the x360 is capable of. What this may result in is most games for the x360 being very good graphics quality, where with the PS3 most games will be good to very good quality, and a some will be excellent quality. The problem about determining qualities however is that this generation will produce a stunning level of quality, making it difficult to tell the difference between what I call good and excellent quality. For example in the 2D generation the increase of colors from 16 to 256 to 4096 were all very staggering. Where the increase from 16535 to millions of colors is a large leap, most casual users may not even notice the difference. In addition it is hard to tell at this point what sort of performance the x360 will have as the approach to graphics processing is very much different than anything that has been tried before. --Thax 21:47, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Ah ok, that answers a few questions of mine. E3 gave me a bad feeling about xbox 360 in terms of improvement but then i read and heard that the most of the developers are using systems with only 2 of the 3 chips that the 360 will have. Thx for answering my Q, i guess ill find the rest out come november

Some pics, via SlashDot
http://www.maxconsole.com/?mode=comments&newsid=2584 132.205.15.4 19:57, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

ourcolony.net
add site reference. User:200.172.115.194


 * What does this have to do with the next Xbox? I don't get it. Theres nothing there and the website is not registered to Microsoft. K1Bond007 18:00, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * This might be a viral marketing campaign. Read this Gamespot article for more information. TerokNor 22:13, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Since it's being picked up by other news places I reverted it back. It's funny how most sites reporting on it have no idea even if Microsoft is behind it. Seems fishy to me. K1Bond007 04:24, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * It is a viral marketing campaign for the next xbox, similarly to the Ilovebees campaign for Halo 2, and yep it is pretty legit. Dracmir 5:42 PM May 9, 2005

Image
The image of the "prototype" should be removed and I am planning to do so soon. This is Wikipedia afterall. An encyclopedia. The first image is obviously not a final system design, and was made by an anonymous user on the Internet. It's a fake. It has no credibility and is not factual. Two things I think are required for an encyclopedia. The second image, holds a little more credibility given the source, so that, for the time being is ok to leave - though it's just going to get deleted in a months time. K1Bond007 18:02, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * This image is strong rumor, internal prototype. Of course when the final version shows will be changed.

I am considering this post for deletion since we know what the box looks like and do not need this info or speculation anymore. However if anyone disagrees please respond and we can discuss it.

Xbox 360 name confirmed
GamesIndustry report --Mateusc 22:41, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * When Microsoft actually confirms this as fact on May 12, we'll have the page moved. BTW, to escape the possibility of any problems with copyrights I removed the text you posted and just left the link to the article. Copying and pasting the whole thing is most likely a no-no. Just FYI. Copyrights K1Bond007 22:53, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)
 * IGN Xbox 360 launch - xbox360.ign.com - MS VP says about Xbox 360. --Mateusc 12:50, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

MTV spot
http://outerspace.terra.com.br/videos/xbox360_mtv_spot.mov

http://www.outerspace.com.br/imgs_os/news/2005/xbox360_mtv_1.gif http://www.outerspace.com.br/imgs_os/news/2005/xbox360_mtv_2.gif --Mateusc 02:08, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Engadget is confirming this is what the next Xbox will look like
http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000293041091/ --Chill Pill Bill 03:03, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Gamespot confirmed today, is internal prototype.

Hard drive?


Why does it say 40 GB on it? • Thorpe • 09:01, 1 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Do you remember The Register's [speculation] article about two or more versions of the X360? That could be the version with the hard disk....&mdash;Quickbreak 12:25, 4 May 2005 (UTC)


 * That is the removable 40 GB hard-drive which would is beleived to be sold separately (at least in the cheapest version of the system). Dracmir 5:52PM May 9, 2005


 * The hard drive will be grant retro-compability (Xbox 1 games) giving apropriated software instaled for this. --Mateusc 23:59, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Just comfirmed by microsoft that each 360 will have a detachable 20 gig hard drive with system at launch included with the system.


 * Is there any info regarding whether this hard drive will be usable by computers? Is the plug compatible (USB?)? Is the drive itself compatible? I was thinking if people get bored with the console maybe they could still use the hard drive as external storage.

Announcement
Tomorrow after the airing the unveiling is over (see dates and times) the section should, IMHO be removed. K1Bond007 02:13, May 13, 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, it will probably be changed to past-tense. • Thorpe • 07:11, 13 May 2005 (UTC)
 * But do we really need to have a list of the times and dates in which it ran internationally? I think saying it premiered in North America at ### is good enough. K1Bond007 15:57, May 13, 2005 (UTC)

Is this line really necessary: "Note that, in order to comply with ITC regulations regarding the advertisement of videogames and consoles, the UK showing had to be heavily edited. As a result, it featured few images of the Xbox 360 console and its games." I have to say the one that aired in the U.S. had few images of the console and its games. I'm not so sure it was because of regulations. The MTV thing was just horrible and seriously a waste of time. K1Bond007 21:45, May 13, 2005 (UTC)


 * The UK one managed to have fewer, according to people who've seen both. I'll admit it's not proven that ITC regs were responsible, but shows in general have to be very limited in the amount of videogames hardware and footage shown in order to avoid being classed as an advertisement feature. It's been a big problem for shows like Game Stars Live. It's a disposable comment however and it couldn't hurt to remove it or turn it into a general one: stating that the show (in all regions) featured little footage of the console and its games. Sockatume 01:52, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Ok. I was concerned that it might not be true considering how stupid the MTV special thing was :) I just couldn't imagine one with less content. K1Bond007 03:32, May 14, 2005 (UTC)

Hard Drive included?
On the XBox 360 web site, under Xbox 360 System Performance Specifications, in the Storage section, it lists a "Detachable and upgradeable 20GB hard drive", which sounds to me like the 20GB HD is included. Agree?
 * Yeah.. see K1Bond007 03:12, May 13, 2005 (UTC)

Impressive new image
Like the new image for the Xbox 360. Well done to whoever contributed this. • Thorpe • 20:13, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

1 TFLOPS?
On the official Xbox 360 site it says

Overall System Floating-Point Performance * 1 teraflop

However the wikipedia site has 1 teraflop under the CPU section. Can someone who knows more decide whether the 1 TFLOPs is CPU only, or CPU + GPU? -- Zaak (unsigned)


 * Good point. I'm not a computer hardware expert but I think you're correct because the "Overall System Floating-Point Performance" table row appears after they mention the CPU, GPU, and memory detail specifications. --Chill Pill Bill 16:05, 14 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Sorry about that edit-and-then-put-back there, somehow I read two Ses on the end making it TFLOPSs. I'm sleep deprived. Sockatume 19:27, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

"Green circles logo"
I've removed this image as I've seen no evidence of it being an official logo and it doesn't fit in with any other imagery. violet/riga (t) 16:20, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * No that logo is official. This link is Broken 29 June 2005 20:44 (UTC)

Delete Rumor Section
The last two rumors have already been confirmed as being real and the first one could easily be placed in the intro section, I am going to erase the rumor section and add the first rumor to the intro. Dracmir 12:19pm May 14, 2005


 * Agreed, the former could be "No retail price has been announced, however rumour blah blah", and the other two have sufficient supporting evidence. Sockatume 16:22, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * The controller Windows Longhorn compatibility isn't confirmed yet. I think that rumors section rumors would have to come back and inside of it re-to place "Backwards Compatibility" --Mateusc 16:06, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
 * With E3 so close, I'd rather just leave the rumors off the page and wait till everything is announced. By E3, you'll know about the price, the compatibility with Windows, and if it will be backward compatible. It's not worth creating a rumor section again for. K1Bond007 18:38, May 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * The controller is Windows Longhorn compatible. When J Allard and Microsoft announced XNA last year, they said that controllers for the new Xbox (Xbox 360) would be compatible with their operating systems. XNA will be "infused" in Windows Longhorn coding, as it is with the Xbox 360. So, it's obvious to assume that if, let's say, Madden was released on both Xbox 360 and PC for Longhorn, one could take a wired Xbox 360 controller (USB compatible) and transfer it to the PC and play the game with roughly the same controls...But, that's just what I've heard.

Controller
Is the button in the middle of the controller not a trackball? 66.52.195.144 16:17, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
 * It's a big, flat, button, so no, it's not a trackball as had been rumoured. It'd be practically impossible to use as a trackball in that position anyway. Sockatume 20:06, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
 * It is the Xbox Live button which makes the Xbox Live menu pop up from wherever you are when you press it (aka. while watching movies, playing games etc.) Dracmir May 18, 2005 9:25pm
 * Correction - it is the Ring of Light button which brings up the Xbox 360 Guide. And yes, a trackball would be impossible to use. &mdash;Vanderdecken&emsp;&weierp;&zeta;&xi; 18:51, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

No its called the guide button, the ring of light is the LED around the power button on the console itself.Tik 13:58, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

No Internet Browsing capability on new Xbox
Sony announced its new PS3 will have Internet Browsing capability, a feature lacking in the new XBox 360. This will be a complete drawback for consumers since we all enjoy browsing the Net, and if XBox 360 doesn't offer it then I'd rather wait for PS3! ok
 * Has this been confirmed already??? --Dynamax 20:18, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
 * We all enjoy browsing the net, but do we enjoy browsing the net on a console? I have used stripped down browsers with limited data entry capabilities and the experiance can be frustrating. In terms of online capabilities I think that the x360 has a better approach by controlling the entire experiance to ensure it all works correctly with the console. I am very interested to see how Sony approaches thier online plan and how successful that approach is. --Thax 18:24, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

MS has commented time and time again that they want the xbox to be as far from computer entertainment as possible (irony, anyone?) so they will not let you surf the web, the closest thing is the xbox live marketplace. Ps3 is being marketed as a home entertainment center/computer, this is not rumor as sony has made strong comments backing this up. Since 360 will have MMO support free on live through silver service they will have to release keyboard and most likely a mouse since WoW and ff11 (confirmed) will probably be released on it.


 * Where did you hear about WoW maybe on Xbox 360? I started a thread over at |WoW WarCry way back before WoW was even in Open Beta, about how it (or even a sequel/expansion) should be released for the next gen consoles... lol. --Wulf 03:11, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
 * Even now, it is a rumor at best. Blizzard has said nothing about releasing it for anything but PC. --Kamasutra 03:32, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

Hmmm... It seems there was an article in Newsweek about computer manufacturers getting annoyed that Microsoft was making something so close to a computer... I wonder what effect that sentiment from computer manufacturers will have on whether or not Microsoft allows web-browsing... --Wulf 03:11, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

Its not confirmed hence why i put a (confirmed) beside ff11 and not one beside WoW, i was speaking relatively. since you get free mmo service through xbox silver, obviously more than one mmo will be released and most people are familiar with world of warcraft if only by name.Tik 13:33, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Removed: Overall System Floating-Point Performance

 * 1 TFLOP <- original text

No. A 1 TFLOP machine can possibly enter the world's top 500 list (http://www.top500.org/lists/plists.php?TB=5&M=11&Y=2004). This section is totally wrong. -- Toytoy 14:15, May 17, 2005 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, you are the one that is mistaken. The Top 500 list is based on SUSTAINED Dual-Precision FLOPS.  Sony and MS are using peak FLOPS, and that includes ops from the GPU pipelines.  Terrapin 22:13, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

Adding More Details...
We really should be adding as many details as possible. We should add a new Xbox Live section instead of keeping it merged with the original Xbox Live. Also, we should use all the info gathered from the Xbox 360 website. Sure, specifications are great (they are, really), but we should add as much info as possible. -- Apadilla80
 * I strongly disagree about merging the Xbox Live information. That should stay there. Here we should just say that with the launch of the Xbox 360 comes a major new release of Xbox live and a small mention of Silver and the Gold subscription-based service. Thats it. No details - thats what Xbox Live is for. K1Bond007 01:13, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

XBOX name
As it has been discussed in the PLAYSTATION 3 topic, Sony want their name all caps. Shouldn't we be doing the same for the XBOX 360 as opposed to the Xbox 360? Ablaze 14:22, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
 * About Microsoft, they always spell it Xbox. See www.xbox.com. The front page is loaded with examples of "Xbox." - "Xbox 360 details," "Xbox 360 Hands-on," etc etc. So no. K1Bond007 14:42, May 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * Like the first Xbox, has a diference enters name of the console and the logo/fantasy inscription. Visit to the official sites of both strap this doubt. --Mateusc 18:55, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Logo's are always different. Most are in all caps. It doesn't mean we should change the name of the article. In written text it is "Xbox 360". K1Bond007 21:06, May 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's right. The name is Xbox 360. --200.172.115.194 02:37, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Sorry to post several months after the last in this section but I couldn't help saying it - PS3 in all caps sounds like it was written by the 10 year old wannabe forumer whose entire vocabulary appears to consist of 'OMG!!!LOL!!!!!!111'

the PowerPC processor?
Why is microsoft usng a processor that was designed by apple (and IBM and Motorola)? It's like saying "Your better than us so well use your products".
 * Microsoft don't make PC processors, they make PC software. You're thinking of Intel. Sockatume 13:22, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * So you're saying that Microsoft don't even make the product that they advertise as their own?
 * (As in they don't make/produce the xbox 360 but they claim they do)
 * They make the Xbox and the Xbox 360, but they didn't create the x86 processor that went into the Xbox, nor did Apple create the POWER processors which power Macs. Therefore your statement makes no sense. Sockatume 14:29, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Making components to a product is entirely different. Besides, if you look into the history of a lot computer products you'd be surprised. OSX, for instance, is not a native Apple product, it was originally developed by NeXT which was later bought up by Apple. This kind of bridges into yesterday's news that Apple is switching to Intel chips. . K1Bond007 21:15, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)
 * The hardware market's starting to look like a game of musical chairs. Sockatume 01:45, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * My understanding is that PowerPC is very much an IBM product and Apple had very little influence in its design, save as a customer... PowerPC variants are used to power many (most?) IBM supercomputers... and Apple's future products will be Intel-based Staphylococcus 23:55 (GMT) 04 Sept 2005

Serious Xbox 360 Graphics evaluation
This link will supply all of you wikiheads with a the first ever evaluation of the Xbox 360's Graphics http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/xenos/

Wireless Ready
I thought they said it was built-in? If it's only Ready and I have to buy a $100 adapter then BOO-HOO. &mdash; Il&gamma;&alpha;&eta;&epsilon;&rho;   (T&alpha;l&kappa;) '' 23:38, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * It is not built-in, they haven't said the price, but I doubt it will be 100 bucks.
 * It is so for the Current-Gen xbox afaik &mdash; Il&gamma;&alpha;&eta;&epsilon;&rho;   (T&alpha;l&kappa;) '' 2 July 2005 16:38 (UTC)