Talk:Xen (Half-Life)

Two questions: Please provide a source for these. - DynSkeet (talk) 18:02, May 16, 2005 (UTC)
 * 1) Is Xen the name for the loose collection of asteroids, or is it the entire dimension in which the asteroids exist? I never got a clear answer on that from the game.
 * 2) Where are inhabitants of Xen referred to as Xenians?
 * I'm pretty sure Xen is the name of the dimension. And I don't think they are called "Xenians". I don't have a source, though. Thunderbrand 01:28, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

As a recent editor, I have to admit I'd not heard the Xenian name before - I just left it in, assuming that someone knew better than me.

As regards what Xen is, I'm inclined to think of it as the dimension rather than the asteroids - even if my edits don't reflect that - again, just worked around what was already written. For one thing, the "asteroids" are distributed across several teleportation destinations, so it's not like there's one "belt" of them or something.

Anyway, glad interest has picked up on the page again. Will try to add some screenshots of Xen soon. --Plumbago 07:40, 17 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Groovy. I'm glad that I'm not the only person that found these items strange. I'll make some quick edits. -DynSkeet (talk) 12:44, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

Here's an interesting thought, rather than being weaker in Xen, gravity is actually much, much stronger, since even rocks the size of the asteroids/islands can exert a noticeable pull on objects. Then again, as many of the asteroids are clearly able to move around, etc. perhaps one shouldn't try and draw too many parallels with our universe. --Plumbago 19:16, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, a good point. Since it's apparently an alternate dimension, very different physical laws may apply; logically (meaning in "our" universe), Gordon shouldn't be able to stay on the tiny rocks or be able to breathe in the helmetless HEV suit. But then it wouldn't be a very good science fiction game if every aspect made complete sense :D -DynSkeet (talk) 19:26, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

Okay, done. Now, the next issue (man, it seems like I'm picking this article apart): why is the title "Xen homeworld" rather that simply "Xen"? If no one raises objections, I may move it to Xen and leave this as a redirect.

Whoops, here's a sort of answer: Xen is also a virtual machine monitor designed by Cambridge. Okay, if there are no objections, I'll move the article to "Xen (Half-Life)". -DynSkeet (talk) 12:50, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

Cool with me. I don't know where the "homeworld" bit comes from anyway. It's referred to in the game as "Xen" or sometimes as the "border world Xen" (which is kind of cool, 'cos what it borders is somewhat mysterious).

Incidentally, I've prepped some screenshots. Will start adding them. Delete or replace as y'all see fit. --Plumbago 16:26, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Nice! I much prefer your Gonarch screenshot to the one currently in the Gonarch article. Unfortunately, they crowd the page a little too much. I think the first two on the right-hand side are the most appropriate for this article. -DynSkeet (talk) 17:33, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

Agree about the crowding. Please re-arrange/delete. Maybe move excess ones to the table at the end of the article. Incidentally, the article doesn't make any reference to the species that you encounter only at Xen (the little light creatures; the stabbing "trees"; the mantas). Actually, I guess the mantas crop up earlier, but you barely see them until Xen. --Plumbago 17:36, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Good point. Does anyone have any info on these three creatures? -DynSkeet (talk) 18:05, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

Okay, I think we have enough screenshots now. Thunderbrand 17:56, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

Are you sure? I could knock out some more! ;) --Plumbago 18:41, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
 * 13 is plenty. Thanks for adding them. Thunderbrand 22:17, May 18, 2005 (UTC)


 * No worries. As I've said before, please feel free to move/delete them.  Unlike, it seems, most people, I quite liked the Xen section of Half-Life.  Far more imaginative than anything comparable in setting.  Anyway, that's why I've gone overboard on pictures!  --Plumbago 07:54, 19 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I didn't mind Xen either. It was pretty spiffy. I was even thinking of making a HL Deathmatch game centered around Xen, or maybe even a Counter-Strike map. ("de_xen", maybe, with the Counter-Terrorists supposedly working for the Combine or something? "cs_xen?") Yar Kramer 16:14, 19 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I particularly liked the attention to detail. Like, for instance, the shared anatomy of several of the Xen species.  Xen's also quite an attractive place (hence, again, all those screenshots!).  That and the fact that, for once, it's an alien world that isn't lifted from the film Aliens!  --Plumbago 17:10, 20 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Actually, I regret that Xen wasn't in HL2. I really loved those enchanting extraterrestrial landscapes.

Indeed, Plumbago, indeed. As for Xen on the Source engine ... well, there's always Black Mesa: Source ... --Yar Kramer 21:59, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

If people (e.g. Jackel) want to delete things (e.g. the paragraph on headcrabs), can they at least say why they're deleting them? That, after all, is what the "Edit summary" box is for. --Plumbago 21:41, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, why exactly was that deleted? I'm going to go ahead and put that content back in - I see no reason for it to be removed in the first place. Nufy8 23:26, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Ok, I'm not an English major, but this line: "Xen is the origin of the alien species" doesn't make sense. "Xen" is a place, so the word "origin" shouldn't be used this way, it sounds awkward. I tried rewording it, but people (e.g. Plumago) didn't seem to like it. Also, I removed the paragraph on Headcrabs because IMO it doesn't fit, is disproportionally long compared to the rest of the minor Xenians, and it exceeds the scope of this article. There are articles on headcrabs and on Gonarch, if this info is deemed valuable, it should be appended to those respective articles. ---Jackel 15:14, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * It probably should be shortened to a more concise level, mirroring the amount of content that the other Xen creatures have. Nufy8 15:46, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the update Jackel. Sorry if my earlier post sounded rude - just wanted to know why the paragraph vanished. I've tried to edit it a bit to remove surplus information (I think we should still mention the baby headcrabs and the Gonarch though). Feel free (obviously) to edit further. As regards "Xen is the origin ...", I'm not an English major either, but I think it makes sense (or, at least, does so now). Part of the confusion might lie with "species", which is plural, so automatically sounds strange. Maybe "point of origin" would be better - "origination" just sounded a bit odd to me. Your mileage may vary. Anyway, thanks for the comments. --Plumbago 16:06, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The Old Xen?
Around the time Half-Life 1 came out, I was looking at a Sierra or Valve(I really can't remember what page it was to be honest. It was years ago afterall :)) web page about the game. I think at the features part of the site, I remember reading something like "...and get to visit the Xen, a planet that was once a beautiful place". After completing the game and deciding to dig for the storyline, I looked up for that page and that specific sentence again but had no success. Anyway, after playing HL2(and seeing the Combine connection) that sentence made sense. I was wondering if anyone else remembers seeing any such reference to the former state of Xen.

Screenshots
The Screenshots at the section "Additional Screenshots" did not show in my computer. I can see the others at the side of the article so I don't know if you have used a different configuration. In case its a compatibility issue, I use Windows Xp proffesional with standart Microsoft Internet explorer. Hope it helps. I always liked the views of Xen :)


 * Hi. I've reverted the screenshots back to their original format.  Recently this was changed to a "gallery" format (which I'm not familiar with).  Anyway, all of the shots on the page are now presented the same way.  Personally, I think this looks much better anyway.  Using "gallery" just increased the amount of white space on the page (at least at my end).  Anyway, hope this helps.  --Plumbago 07:50, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

.Yes. It works now. Thank you very much.


 * Hi User:25. Sorry about reverting your gallery changes.  As you can see from the above, some users can't get the Gallery to work.  Don't know why - might be a browser thing (I only use Firefox, so I don't know).  I have to admit though - I'm not a big fan of the Gallery format.  It makes the images a bit too dinky and difficult to discern for my liking.  Might be OK if your screen resolution is low (~800), but looks funny >1000.  --Plumbago 18:10, 26 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I'll keep that in mind. Thanks for the info. ╫ 25 ring-a-ding  18:14, 26 August 2005 (UTC) ╫

To anyone who would want to move the screenshots again in the future: I've corrected the part about the manta rays (halfway in 'ecosystem') saying that the level 'Interloper' is on the sixth/fourth/second shot on the page two or three times now. So next time when anyone feels like moving those shots over again, please don't forget to edit that phrase to fit the changes. Fyrius 21:13, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Lifeforms
The list of "major enemies" at the bottom of every Half-Life related page is incomplete. Could someone create new pages or write paragraphs on here about other lifeforms, specifically the tentacle plants and those annoying mini-Nihilanth things that teleport into the Lambda core? Screenshots of them would be good as well! And it would be helpful if we could create a new page on the Race-X aliens seen in Opposing Force. I would create pages myself but I don't know how! :) Rusty2005 26/09/05


 * The "mini-Nihilanths" are called Alien Controllers. And to make a new page, you just put the name into the URL (i.e. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_Controller), or put it into the Search bar, and follow the instructions. (Incidentally, it's a good idea to add comments to the end of the Talk page, not the beginning. A quick way to do it is to click on the plus sign next to "Edit This Page.") --Yar Kramer 14:59, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Great, thanks for the instructions! :) By the way, I've extended the article on the tentacles (reached via the bottom of this page), could someone add the tentacles and the alien controllers to the list of "major enemies" please? Also, a couple of screenshots of these creatures would be helpful! I'll see if I can expand the page on alien controllers.   Rusty2005  26/09/05


 * By the way Rusty2005, I've commented on your additions re: thumpers on the Antlion page. Can you respond?  You probably haven't put the Antlion talkpage on your watchlist, so may well have missed this.  Cheers, --Plumbago 15:46, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Race X
I've created a new page for the Race X aliens from Opposing Force. Please add to the page in any way you see fit! Rusty2005 26/09/05


 * And I've (a) added it to Template:Half-Life, and (b) put a stub note in it. --Yar Kramer 16:27, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Some Repairs
Right now I just made some modifications to the article to make it more neutral and include some more relevant facts.

Some problems with the (old) article:


 * In the introduction, it is stated that Xen's alternate-dimension status is a possibility, although that has been confirmed repeatedly through in-game dialogue. A lot of time is spent with speculation about an invisible planet and talking about what the gravity "should" be doing instead of what it is doing.

Changes: The description of Xen's unique "gravity" is elaborated, while the large amount of speculation is reduced. Enhanced description of the Border World, based on HL2 dialogue.


 * The ecosystem section kind of glosses over Xen's distinctive 'plant' life by categorizing it with all other types of organism. There's one bizarre point where Nihilanth's organic fighter planes are speculated to work like giant bees. A lot is said about them that probably belongs in its own article, since such a complex description of their behaviour has little to do with Xen. There's no mention of Nihilanth's limited industrialization of some areas. There's no mention of Race X or the Antlions' likely Xenian origin.

Changes: The ecosystem category is divided up into a short introduction describing the habitat, a non-sentient category that focusses on the distinctive plant life and a sentient category that describes the Nihilanth and his civilization on Xen. Also, an Unconfirmed category includes Race X and the Antlions as possible Xen dwellers.


 * Some facts that weren't included don't really fit into any category.

Changes: Added a Politics section, describing Xen's territories and strategic importance to Nihilanth, Humanity and the G-man.


 * The narrative section consists almost entirely of speculation, very little to do with the actual narrative of the games. The assumption is made that the G-man works for the US government, etc.

Changes: This section is replaced with a brief description of how Xen factors into the Half-Life universe, with more emphasis on what is known than on what could be speculated.

All in all, I hope that makes the thing easier to read and provides a bit more factual basis.

However, someone's reverted it now. Oh dear. Could that please be changed back?


 * Aw damn, that politics section sounds interesting. Heh, I'm the guy that made the old Lambda Project website, where I theorised that the Xen asteroids could be orbiting some kind of invisible object.  It's nice to see that sort of thing has gotten a mention on here!  I think I may add a section about the Xen crystals, though I may put them on a seperate page. --your evil twin 04:21, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Who is Doug Lombardi?
There's a quote made by him on this page. If he's a Valve employee (or used to be), this should be noted, as in "Doug Lombardi (a former Valve employee)...". Kimera757 16:06, 27 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I believe he's head-honcho over at Valve. No "former" about him.  Hence the lack of explanation.  Cheers, --Plumbago 16:21, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Original Research Tag
The article is still heavily loaded with speculation, so I've put the OR tag on until we can pull out everything that can't be sourced, like the "bees" discussion and the orbiting asteroid speculation. Night Gyr 18:00, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * There's a good version here that has a lot of the speculative things taken out in favor of more objective reporting, but I'm not about to just revert over five months of changes. Night Gyr 18:06, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I've just recently edited the article into a revised update of that "good version" you mention (reasons for the change, as before, can be found in the post entitled "Some Repairs" above). I have triple-checked it, and I can assert the following:
 * The description is a direct report of what can be seen and heard in the official Half-Life games and expansions, without using cheats.
 * Those few elements that are not based on in-game content have their sources listed.
 * All POV-based claims / assumptions from the previous version (and there were a lot) have been either confirmed & elaborated - or removed entirely. As a result, there is no longer any original research. So, I have removed the tag for the time being. 72.57.42.230 18:07, 27 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Hmmm. The old version contains plenty original research itself (e.g. Xen's atmosphere).  Not sure I'm happy about it just yet, but I'll read it over the next few days and edit as I see fit.  Cheers, --Plumbago 09:25, 29 May 2006 (UTC)


 * "such as the nameless manta ray-shaped organic ships"? Do we have any reason to assume that they're 'organic ships'? We don't know if they're organic and we don't know if they're ships. Let alone the paragraph about 'politics'. And this 'better' version is supposed to have less unverified claims? I think this version is just less elaborate than the old one, for example it doesn't say anything about the manta rays coming in two forms and such. Fyrius 13:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I just compared both versions, and I don't agree with this change at all. The current version doesn't specifically have less original research, it just has much less info, also non-OR. Wouldn't it be a better idea to just edit the OR parts out of the previous version instead of replacing the entire article by an obsolete and about equally OR-containing version? Fyrius 13:47, 30 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree. It's a real step backwards now that I've looked more closely.  Not all of it's bad, so I'm going to gradually edit the "old" version back in where it's superior.  But, I must say, some of this current version is awful.  Complaints about the previous version's OR are nothing compared to the stuff about the atmosphere of Xen, the "lichen" covering it, etc.  Still, the beauty of WP is that the old version's just a few mouse clicks away ...  --Plumbago 13:29, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

I just deleted a load of complete nonsense, speculation and unverfied claims from the article. And now, I'm considering to delete the entire 'narrative' paragraph as well. Sure, it's very interesting to read a reconstruction of the story behind Half-Life, but as half of it consists of speculation I'd say it shouldn't be here. This is fansite material. Fyrius 10:11, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with Fyrius, this entry is a mess. Normally I'd just edit out or revise content that I feel needs to go, but its hard to justify the majority of what is in this version as anything less than sheer speculation. Wiki articles should deal strictly with that which is verifiable, and given the fact that so little in-game time is spent in Xen, there is too much here that isn't. One example, "the species on Xen (including many of those that may be considered plants) are all but exclusively omnivorous or carnivorous." suggests an overinflated understanding of Xen that is not possible to conclude, as NO CREATURE IS EVER SEEN EATING ANY OTHER CREATURE. Furthermore, the very definition of plant/animal may not apply to these creatures, being that they are from another dimension. There is a section titled "Non-Sentient Organisms" which includes some creatures that are demonstratively sentient, and others that may simply seem to be non-sentient, given that the whole basis for judging their sentience is based on limited, likely inaccurate anecdotal evidence.---Jackel 19:29, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

It's not entirely true that you can't see Xen creatures eating each other in de game, since Bullsquids attack Head Crabs on sight and Alien grunts start eating you after they've killed you (bringing (invisible) pieces of your meat to their mouths with the arm on the chest, and visibly chewing it). But other than that, you're right, it's inappopriate to say things about all of Xen judging only from what's to be seen in-game. Fyrius 16:35, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Its a bit of a reach to say the only reason Bullsquids attack Headcrabs is to eat them. It may be a simple territorial thing. It may be that Headcrabs emit an extremely high pitch which only Bullsquid can hear that makes them very angry. Either of these theories are just as valid as saying that Bullsquid like to eat Headcrabs for dinner, which is to say none of them belong because its all just baseless speculation. The bit about Alien Grunts is true, but I was referring to just the scope of this article. Besides, let's face it, people are delicious!---Jackel 18:51, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

You're probably right. About the explanation being baseless and speculative, that is. I don't know what people taste like. O_O Anyway. As we've just decided that we're not sure wether Bullsquids actually eat Head Crabs or that they attack them for other reasons, this phrase should also be edited out: "Headcrabs appear to be fairly low on the Xen food chain, often seen being eaten by bullsquid." (end of first paragraph in 'Ecosystem') - Fyrius 10:19, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

And how about this? "These tentacle-trees are frequently accompanied by one of the bioluminescent stalks, and may share a symbiotic relationship. The glowing stalk may attract prey, while the tentacle-tree will do the killing, with the two sharing the nutrients.  However, the two organisms are not the same creature, as tentacle-trees and stalks occur also separately throughout Xen." This has 'original research' written all over it. I'm sorry for whoever wrote that, but I'm deleting it. - Fyrius 10:23, 13 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Re: Bullsquid and headcrabs, the former do attack the latter (though don't eat them). This is actually best seen early in HL back in Black Mesa rather than in Xen, but it does occur (and can even exploit it to get the bullsquid to somewhat clear the way for you at one point).  I don't think the line just deleted is OR on this point.  --Plumbago 11:37, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, we agree about the fact the Bullsquids do attack Head Crabs, but since they just kill them without actually eating them afterwards we still don't know anything about the Head Crab's position in the food chain. And the part saying "often seen being eaten by bullsquid" is just wrong. - Fyrius 11:53, 13 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Fair point. I'll try to think of a better way to describe this.  --Plumbago 12:00, 13 June 2006 (UTC)  In other news (after an edit conflict) ...


 * Good job Fyrius. I think most of the outright speculation's gone now (especially "Strategic importance").  Regarding Xen's significance, I think we may be missing something there though.  As I recall in HL2 it's explained that the Combine have inferior teleportation technology that only lets them teleport between universes, while Black Mesa scientists teleport within the same universe using borderworlds like Xen as an intermediary.  The resonance cascade opened a more significant connection between Xen and Earth, attracting the attention of the Combine who then invaded Earth directly.  I realise that, fundamentally, this is all patent nonsense, and the underpinning of an imaginary world, but some mention of Xen's role in this regard is probably worth adding.  What's your recollection of Xen's significance?  Cheers, --Plumbago 12:00, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by the 'significance' of Xen. If you mean significance to the storyline, then it's huge, the teleporting issue being only one of the narrative elements that add to it. It's almost the very subject of Half-Life 1. If you mean significance to 'politics' within the Half-Life universe, it's much less easy to explain, as not understanding what the hell is going on is a key feature of Half-Life-style story telling. In other words, the games give us only little bits of information about issues like this. That's what makes it impossible to explain Half-Life's politics without breaking the rules against original research. The best we could do is just adding those bits of information to the article without adding any conclusions to it. - Fyrius 12:35, 13 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Outstanding work, Plumago and Fyrius! This article is much more conscise, and much more in-line with the criteria of good wiki articles. The only thing I still have issue with is the "criticism" section. While I personally tend to agree with most of it, there really should be cited sources for it to belong in this article. I'll look around and see if I can find any. Once again, thanks to both of you. ---Jackel 15:44, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Official word on Xen's purpose
This was just added to the Combine article :

I'm pretty sure Doug was restating something I'd told him; I [am not] clarifying it, since it's the foundation on which the series continues. What we saw in HL1 was the very end of a long struggle between the Combine and the last of the Nihilanth's race ... The Nihilanth's "world" (if it could be said to have) was long since in the past as far as the Nihilanth was concerned; Xen was their final retreat, and they had their back to the wall, as it were, when the fissure appeared that let them spill into our dimension. Xen itself is sort of a dimensional transit bottleneck--an area of continual contention.

I'll leave it to someone better versed on Xen than me to integrate that quote. It's certainly interesting. --Tom Edwards 19:32, 27 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Another good quote that could do with integration (emphasis mine):
 * "The Xen Controllers were part of the Nihilanth's support network, and they relied on the Nihilanth to throw them around where it wanted them to go, so if there are any left, they are probably stranded in what would not have been their natural native environment (nothing's native to Xen). However, without access to a steady food supply (whatever it is they eat), they may well have simply died out."
 * Source. --Tom Edwards 09:18, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

That's a very interesting quote indeed. We'll probably have to rewrite the ecosystem paragraph to fit the view that all life on Xen doesn't actually belong there.

It also indicates that Laidlaw himself (he's the story writer, right?) doesn't know everything about the Half-Life universe either. Fyrius 13:07, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi Tom. I've tried to add the information you've provided into the article.  I've specifically not gone into great length about it because of the recent purges necessary in the article (see above).  Further, I guess that future HL episodes may clarify the relationship between Xen and the aliens living there more.  As an aside, I've left the text such that it implies Xen natives (bullsquid, headcrabs, etc.) and Xen-visitors (vortigaunts, controllers, etc.).  That's not entirely unintended as it seems about right to me (no common morphology between Xen-visitors and Xen natives; not that there's much between "Xen natives" here though!).  However, I've not dwelt on it as that would be pure speculation and, again, hopefully it'll be clarified by future episodes.  Cheers, --Plumbago 13:04, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

But this quote means that all species on Xen are visitors, right? Well integrated visitors maybe, but still visitors. So shouldn't we terminate the division in natives and non-natives? Fyrius 13:11, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


 * OK. Fair point.  I'll try to reword again.  --Plumbago 13:19, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

One more remark on this: the opening paragraph still describes Xen as "the origin of the alien species that appear in the science fiction video game Half-Life". But we now know with absolute certainty that Xen isn't the origin of any species (since "nothing is native to Xen"). (The article even explicitly says this in the 'Ecosystem' paragraph, so the article is even contradictory the way it is now.) So we should definitely change this. I propose we make it something along the lines of "Xen is a fictional world that appears in the science fiction video game Half-Life (etc)". That way we're quite sure that what we're saying is true. Fyrius 16:12, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Since nobody objected or reacted in any other way, I'll just implement what I was planning to change. I'll find out soon enough if anyone has any trouble with this change. Fyrius 20:08, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Possible Reasons for Asteroids
In the article, it says that Xen is all asteriods, and maybe there was unlying planet or something that cannot be seen. Well, In half life 2, the combine are stealing materials from earth by draining the oceans or any method possible to get them. I'm assuming Xen has been under combine control for a while longer than Earth so maybe all the easily mined materials are taken so now they are actually ripping the planet apart to get them? It would explain why there could be asteriods.


 * Nice theory - but it'd be total speculation, and we have enough problems with that here already. Sorry.  (As an aside, it's not clear that Xen was ever under Combine control - Valve hasn't given enough information there yet, hence much speculation.)  --Plumbago 08:16, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I thought we were pretty sure that the Combine never even reached Xen before the event in the Half-Life series. I don't know where it went, but I recall that there was some quote from someone at Valve explaining that the Vortigaunt had fled from their homeworld to Xen in order to be safe from the Combine. Though we'd need to find the quote to be sure about it. Fyrius 16:25, 28 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, I was just replaying the games recently (HL1, Opposing Force, and Blue Shift), and I found that in some levels (particularly Intelorper), the "sky texture" features a clouded sky above with a sun, with a reflection of the same below it (you can see part of what I'm talking about in the picture of the tentacle, I'll try to get another screenshot of that). The reflection could be caused by water, like and ocean. If that's the case, then that means that Xen's platforms could be held in low orbit over an actual planet.  That also means the gravity is lower because of a lower orbit, but points down towards the actual planet.  And there may be an atmosphere if the platforms are not too far out of orbit.  Of course, the gravity could also be lower due to the fact that the planet's mass is smaller.  Also, note that the platforms are all mostly the same shape, which is a nearly flat piece of any size that comes to point on the bottom, as if the platforms were land mass that were pulled from the ground (possibly from the planet that may be in existence below?).  There are only two odd things about this theory.  One is the fact that large land masses are floating.  This may be caused by very light gases within the structures that make them afloat, or just the fact that the masses are far enough away to free fall infinitly, much like an orbiting spacecraft.  The other odd thing is the really odd "sky textures" we see in Xen enviornments, like the "nebulas," the blown up images from a microscope, or the completely black "abyss."  Of course, the nebulas could be clouds of alien gases in the atmosphere, and the black could be a night cycle on the planet.  But the microscopic images are just bizarre.  Maybe they are giant floating organisms in the atmosphere?  Or maybe it is an effect from G-Man when he is talking to Gordon (like the tram car in space illusion).  If there are other parts when the player sees the microscopic images in the sky when not talking to G-Man (which there may be), then that theory is disproven.  That's about it.  Sorry if it's lengthy, let me know what you think, and I'll get some screenshots of the "sky and ocean" (if we need one).

Those are some inventive theories, but I don't think they're right. The rocks can't be in orbit around a planet. There's oxygen on Xen (Freeman wears a maskless HEV suit), so they'd have to be within the atmosphere, and its air resistance would slow the rocks down so they would fall down to the planet. And if the rocks would be filled with lighter-than-air gasses but still within the gravity of the planet, they wouldn't stay motionless if someone walked over them. They would lean over to your side if you stand near the edge, because you would be heavier than the rock. It would be like walking on a raft.

As for the giant germs in the sky texture, I remember they were also visible in some Xen-levels in Opposing Force (possibly in bonus areas that are only accessible via the teleporter gun).

Not that any type of speculation would be allowed in the article, no matter how plausible it may be. But still it's just fun to talk about. :P Fyrius 12:53, 26 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Since we are all going for speculation, here's a bit of my own. Xen, in my opinion, isn't an actual Universe, but a sub-continuum of sorts, stretched thin between two other, proper Universes. I beleive that, at its origin, it was either empty or non existant. Then, before the coming of the Nihilanth, someone/thing began 'importing' things into it: atmospheric gasses, boulders, water, living things, etc. It may be that even space-time itself was 'imported', as air would be added to a vaccumed bag. Given the fact that it existed between two parralel realities, it may be that some of those things got imported from both sides, i.e. the space-time function came from a universe the laws of which allowed for the gravitational force to be much stronger, while the matter itsef came from a universe like our own. In the end, you get this half-universe which is small emough to hold a small quantity of gas together at a breathable density, and has several chunks of rock rppped out of several worlds which have some form of gravitational pull of teir own. Life-forms themselves come from several different worlds (bullsquids, tentacles, headcrabs and Vortigaunts don't seem biologically related to me). The Nihilanth used this 'place' as a refuge, because it appears the Combine cannot get in (which, given their less-than-ideal teleportation wormholes isn't too surprising). If you want an example, it's sort of like the Tinkerbell's realm from the Night's Dawn Trilogy by Peter F. Hamilton.Preda 21:13, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Whoa. That would be an awesome and fascinating explanation. Fyrius 21:18, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

The manta rays are called boids?
I'm not sure how long this has been in the article, but I just noticed that it's stated that the Xen manta ray-like creatures are called "boids". I'm pretty sure this is incorrect as "boids" refer to the tiny flying aliens seen only during the final sequence of the game when the G-Man speaks. However, this statement also lists Raising the Bar as the source for this information. A quick skim through the book shows no mention of this name. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt, though, so I'm merely posing this question here for anyone who can verify this name. For the record, the texture names for these manta ray creatures in Half-Life (c4a2_shell1 and c4a2_shell1b) do not give an indication to actual names for them, but the manta ray creature model in Half-Life: Decay calls them "flyers". MarphyBlack 04:40, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
 * It's a fairly recent addition, as the edit was made on 03:18, 23 August 2006, only five edits ago. I can't verify it, as I don't have the book. Fyrius 12:28, 3 September 2006 (UTC)


 * You could be right MarphyBlack. There are definitely flying creatures at the end of HL that aren't mantas, but I wasn't aware they had a name.  Regarding the edit, I tidied it up from a badly inserted comment, but I've no idea about whether it's correct.  So edit as you see fit.  Cheers, --Plumbago 18:01, 3 September 2006 (UTC)


 * P.S. Actually the connection to the flocking algorithm "Boids" would support it being the latter flying creatures rather than the mantas. They fly just like the Boids.  --Plumbago 18:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd like to keep the reference to the boids in the article, but asides from the few (one?) flocks we see flying around (They are the ones that emit "soothing resonant sounds", not the manta ray things), we don't know too much about them. Therefore, I'm not sure where to place the info related to them. They're not significant creatures in Xen, such as headcrabs, bullsquids, hound eyes, etc; they're not necessarily unclassifiable like the Xen trees and light stalks; and it's unknown if they are intelligent creatures like Vortigaunts and Xen Controllers. Although I can't find a great place to put the information, I still think they're worthy of a mention somewhere (And the reference to the origin of the name "boids" is pretty interesting).
 * Anyway, I've done a bit more searching around and aside from Decay's reference to the manta ray creatures as "flyers", I can't find any other actual name for them. The Half-Life 1 strategy guide calls them "alien ships", "alien crafts", and "kite-shaped aliens". The Opposing Force strategy guide doesn't cover the first sequence with the manta ray creatures as it's just a cutscene. Aside from maybe something like "manta ray flyers", I'm not sure what else they could be called in the absense of any real official designation. MarphyBlack 01:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Military forces "sent to Xen"?
Okay, I apologize as I didn't mean to come here to start disputing things left and right (Although I do enjoy the discussion!), I'd like to, er, despute this statement. It's found as the image caption for [[Media:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg|this image]]. There's no indication in the game that the military ever intentionally sent forces to Xen for any reason (Or if they even had knowledge of the border world). However, rather than simply editing this statement, I'm bringing it up here as it poses a rather interesting mystery of its own. It's never made clear just exactly what is happening there. Because of this, a reasonable consensus and conclusion should probably be agreed on first. I pose the following three explanations: This is all I could come up with to explain the image. Of course, I could also be missing some obvious piece of information somewhere, so I present this question here. MarphyBlack 01:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * The location is Xen, and the military forces seen there were inadvertanly teleported by the unstable dimensional rifts from Earth. This is supported by the fact that there is clearly a Xen sky seen. Also, evidence shows that the dimensional rifts were transporting organic matter both ways, from Xen to Earth and vice versa. A living scientist is seen in the Nihilanth's chamber in Half-Life (Yes, this is true. Look around. ;) ) and a stranded scientist can also be found in Opposing Force when using the Displacer to teleport to Xen. Additionally, Opposing Force CTF gives this description for the map 'xendance': "The battle for Black Mesa has taken a turn for the worse as the unstable dimentional rifts become more and more dramatic. Now entire groups locked in battle are finding themselves suddenly and unexpectedly teleported across space to the border world known as "Xen". But even in the strange new surroundings, the battle rages on." Obviously this is not entirely canon as it's simply a description as to why there's an inexplicable capture the flag game taking place in an alien world, but it's still supporting evidence for "humans are being transported to Xen unexpectedly" theory, nonetheless. Also, the entire ending G-Man sequence with all the teleportations takes Gordon to Xen locations every other time, so it would seem logical to conclude that this would be a Xen location as well.
 * The location is not Xen, and these are simply the remains of some fallen military forces on Earth after the aftermath of Black Mesa. This is supported by the fact that there's a sandy desert ground in the area. There is also a tank, truck, and a jet there, and it would seem pretty illogical for the military to send a jet to Xen. There's one of those beach barrier things in the middle of the screenshot, and to me, that's probably the most useless thing that could be brought to an alien world. There's also the question as to how they the military would be able to send forces to Xen even if they wanted to, as it seems most, if not all, of the teleportation at Black Mesa was destroyed or being used for other purposes. And how to explain the Xen sky? Well, the Half-Life engine has a limitation that only allows one skybox per level. Valve may have intended for this location to be Earth, but due to limitations, they were forced to leave the Xen skybox in this area. Also, the G-Man's cryptic statement that Xen "is in our control" does not necessarilly mean that he was alluding to the military as the ones who have taken over border world, as he may simply be talking about his unseen and oft-referred to employers who seem to have taken a great interest in the situation at hand.
 * No meaning can be derived from this location as it's supposed to be completely surreal and unexplainable, just like the tram floating through space shortly after. The entire sequence is pretty trippy, anyway, so one might find this the only logical explanation.


 * You're right about the caption, it should be replaced by a more general explanation. The few facts that we have about the HL storyline don't allow for such inferences, and Wikipedia's policies don't allow for speculation, so it's out of place indeed. But I'm afraid the same goes for the explanations you came up with, so where Wikipedia is concerned this discusion is pretty much over, I guess.
 * But it's still fun to talk about. :P As for me, I'd go for the last explanation. The whole epilogue might be a hallucination that's controlled by the G-man or his employers, like the opening and epilogue of HL2. And maybe they wanted to make Gordon believe Earth's forces were indeed sent to Xen, and didn't expect his confused and weary mind to notice the contradicting elements.
 * "And how to explain the Xen sky? Well, the Half-Life engine has a limitation that only allows one skybox per level. Valve may have intended for this location to be Earth, but due to limitations, they were forced to leave the Xen skybox in this area." You mean it's just a bit of untidyness on Valve's part? That makes no sense. If they'd have wanted to use another sky texture, they'd teleport the player to another map, like they're doing all the time. It's not quite a detail that could go unnoticed. Fyrius 09:27, 5 September 2006 (UTC)


 * A few points regarding these images and their implications. Firstly, from HL and its immediate sequels we know that authorities on Earth were aware of Xen's existence long before the resonance cascade.  While the player starts the game in ignorance of this, evidence gradually piles up that this is the case.  This includes the presence of specialised housing for Xen creatures (e.g. the pool and "shark-cage" in HL, the biodomes in OF), the crystals that Freeman himself initiates the cascade with, and the occasional mutterings of scientists concerned about what will happen to them when the world finds out about their work (several of whom also remark that Freeman is seeing things he was never supposed to see).  Secondly, again from HL, it's clear that humans have visited it before, as evidenced by the equipment and bodies found there.  Thirdly, while the G-Man is rather non-specific when he says that Xen is "in our control", he does so at a point where the player is being shown the military hardware in question.  It's somewhat speculative to suggest exactly what he meant here, but given Valve's attention to detail, the most straightforward explanation is that Earth, like Xen itself, had prepared an invasion force, and that this was being used to suppress forces in Xen following Freeman's defeat of the Nihilanth.


 * Now, that does cause some problems for HL2, since now the G-Man's allegiance is less clear, and the Seven Hour War is only tersely explained. The simplest explanation here is that when Valve scripted HL they weren't thinking about HL2 so did things that made sense in HL but which require contortions in the plot of HL2.  As it happens, I don't think these are too serious.  Basically, the G-Man is not averse to using to using proxies, such as Freeman, to fight his battles, so why not Earth forces?  While I'm speculating wildly here, this seems a straightforward inference and is consistent with both HL and HL2.


 * To turn to the edits on the page, I don't share the "confusion" about the images at all. For starters, the shots are from HL and the earlier captions made the most straightforward interpretation of events from that game.  Given that the G-Man was in plot-exposition mode and actually explaining things rather than leaving it up to the player's own interpretation, it seems silly to ignore what he says (or assume he's lying).  That the events of HL2 makes us re-evaluate the images we see isn't entirely relevant and perhaps back to front (and, as I've said above, I can't see any contradiction in the first place).  Anyway, just my two cents.  Cheers, --Plumbago 16:06, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

The most straightforward interpretation is still an interpretation, which is to be avoided for the sake of NPOV. Also, even without HL2, there are still some elements in the picture that just don't make sense, as explained by MarphyBlack; for example the sand (no sand is ever seen on Xen) or the beach barrier (a useless thing to take with you when invading an alien world).


 * Oh, I know I'm still interpreting. But as it's the most straightforward interpretation it's surely "better" than one that involves adding "confusion" (regarding NPOV, the latter is presumably more objectionable).  My objection is really to the addition of a caption that's, well, confusing to the reader.  And, as I read the above, based on an interpretation of events that's at odds with a literal reading of the G-Man's end speech.  I agree the sand's an out of place texture for Xen (though according to Valve the sand-loving Antlions live there), but the background's clearly Xen (unless there's somewhere else we can speculate about ...), and, let's face it, the G-Man's conducting a tour of (unambiguously) Xen locations at this point.  It's just perverse (and speculative) to read too much into this single image when a straightforward explanation is already at hand.  --Plumbago 11:50, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Also, to clear up any potential misunderstandings: you're talking about "images", "shots" and "captions", but only one caption was edited, from "Remains of military forces sent to Xen" into "A confusing scene the G-man shows Gordon during the epilogue". Are we talking about the same thing here? Fyrius 11:30, 6 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry, that's my fault. I did just mean the single caption.  Lost the plot there.  Anyway, I don't want to bang on about this too much.  I just wanted to avoid sowing needless confusion in the article, when I can't see any good reason for it.  Cheers, --Plumbago 11:50, 6 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Personally, I think the picture can be seen as confusing regardless of how it's presented. Realistically, in light of Half-Life 2, I guess the player is simply meant to come up with his or her own interpretation of the scene since it's unlikely it will ever be dealt upon again specifically in a later Half-Life game. However, because of this, I believe that the picture should be taken out of the article. As this is about Xen, I don't see how this particular screen represents Xen all that well. Also, removing the picture would avoid the whole perplexing issue of determining exactly what's going on in the picture, something that, although is quite interesting to ponder on, really doesn't belong here as it only serves to confuse things somewhat. If no one minds, I think a screenshot of Xen from either Opposing Force or Blue Shift would make a nice replacement, and it would give a small representation of the expansion packs' version of the locale.  MarphyBlack 12:34, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Agreed and agreed. The word "confusing" in the caption is indeed POV and should not be there, and the image itself is indeed somewhat unfit for the article in the first place. I second the proposal to take the pic out of the article. It wouldn't really be necessary to replace it with something else, but if you have something worthwhile that you want to insert instead, please go ahead. Fyrius 13:47, 6 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Plumbago, do you agree we should edit the pic out? Fyrius 15:10, 8 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi there. Sorry, not paying attention.  I'm OK for it to be edited out, but we should probably replace it with something otherwise the matrix of images will look a bit wonky.  I'll see if I can get something nice from OF or BS.  I still stand by the image (my POV being it causes no confusion, bar the sand texture), but rather than leaving it captionless I'm OK with it being brushed under the carpet.  Cheers, --Plumbago 15:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, the reason I thought it would be best to replace it rather than just removing it was to preserve the neat 3x3 arrangement thingy currently being used. Also, I think three pictures of Xen with the G-Man in it is a bit excessive, since he's not really relevant to the alien world itself, but rather just happened to be placed in the one sequence where several Xen locales were displayed. MarphyBlack 00:17, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I see. So ideally we should have a new image before we take the old one out, lest the layout will get screwy in the time between. Well, I happen to have a few screenshots in stock that might be worthwhile. Some time ago I used cheats to load the Xen levels without the HEV suit's HUD and all, so I could do some touristic photographing without getting anything irrelevant on the picture. Maybe we could use one of those pics.

The three most relevant pics I can find are one bird-eye-view of the Interloper level, with a close-up of a floating alien controller, one of the black void part of Xen, which has no screenshots yet, and one bird-eye-view of the first asteroid we see. EDIT: For some reason the pics behind those links are smaller than the originals I uploaded. I should probably have uploaded them as JPEGs or something.

Anyway, how about it? Fyrius 10:37, 9 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I like the first one best. As well as showing an island not in the other shots, it also shows mantas and an alien controller (in terms of writing its full caption, you can also point out that you can see the "exit" off in the distance).  Regarding the other shots, I've got one myself of the void part of Xen, but it's a dark and boring place, so maybe not.  The third one's a little too similar to others already on the page.  So go with the first.  My only concern would be that it's a little small resolution-wise.  If you have a higher resolution image, all the better.  Cheers, --Plumbago 16:27, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

It's not entirely correct that this island is in none of the other shots, as this one depicts the same location, and it also has the same mantas in it. But okay, if you prefer this one I'll upload it to Wikipedia and put it in the article. And yes, I have it in a higher resolution, so that won't be a problem. Fyrius 19:11, 11 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Done. I also rearranged the screenshots a bit, so that the new one is now in the middle on the right. I can't think of a good caption that's not too long though, so I left that part blank for the time being. Maybe we could say something about the holes in the asteroid that launch Gordon into the air. Fyrius 19:32, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Xen Gravity?
The article says: Another noticeable feature is that gravity is always directed downwards, rather than towards the asteroid, so that one can actually fall off an asteroid into the void below. While it is possible that the "islands" are small chunks orbiting a larger and unseen planetoid, these unusual physics strongly suggest that Xen occupies an alternate dimension where conventional physics may not fully apply. However, it is interesting to note that being in orbit around a larger planetoid would not explain the gravity in Xen. Part of the nature of orbiting is that when you are in orbit you are free of the effects of the gravity of the body you are in orbit around. Another way of saying it is that the orbit itself is the only effect of the gravity, so if you slip from a rock that is in orbit you do not fall, you just keep orbiting. -- Lilwik 20:16, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

An even more obvious way to put that is this: Imagine you are standing on a rock that is in orbit around a planetoid and then you jump off. Both you and the rock are moving in the same approximate manner, around the planetoid in the same path with the same speed. If the rock is in orbit then you certainly are, and wouldn't it be a shock if you were to fall while the rock stays up? If anything were going to fall, it would be the big heavy rock. -- Lilwik 01:18, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Very true. How to address this, however, is less clear.  At the moment, the article's bending over backwards to accommodate dodgy game physics within the framework of real physics.  Obviously, for the game to work, it's important for the player to be killed if they walk off of a Xen asteroid.  However, for the above text to sound sensible, we can't just point out this bald fact (e.g. "For game design reasons, Valve lazily apply an inexplicable gravitational field that affects the player but not Xen asteroids").  Perhaps we need to hack out the above text, and replace it with something much shorter and more ambivalent about "unusual physics" and "controlled gravitational fields".  Or something similar sounding.  Expanding the above text would almost certainly be a bad idea.  It could also be original research.  Anyway, thanks Lilwik for picking this error up.  Cheers, --Plumbago 09:39, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Xen trees VS Butchertrees
Tentacle-trees resemble the Butcher Trees of Darwin IV. Drutt 10:29, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The article you linked to provided this illustration: A sketch of a butchertree. To be honest I can't really agree with the resemblance; though both are carnivorous trees with claws that look alike, this Butchertree has multiple of them on a thick trunk, whereas the Xen trees have only one claw on a trunk of the same width. In summary, while they are alike in a way, it's definitely not a resemblance that the article should say anything about. Fyrius 13:13, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

(I replaced the line with a header to make this subject a paragraph on itself.) Fyrius 13:15, 25 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Here's a better picture. Drutt 16:13, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Interesting. The resemblance is much clearer in the second picture.  Still, I tend to agree with Fyrius that it's not an obvious addition to the article.  Unless the Darwin IV ecology inspired the creators of Xen (or vice versa), I can't see that the parallel's worth drawing.  I can't even work out if the Darwin IV ecology was created after or before Xen's was.  The TV programme was definitely created some years afterwards, but the book might not have been.  --Plumbago 16:46, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * ^^ painting is signed "W Barlowe 87" Drutt 16:52, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Well spotted. In which case, I'm a little suspicious that Valve might have seen these now (some of the other pictures over at the website are also suggestive of Xen).  However, unless we can verify that this is the case, it would just be original research to note the resemblance on the page.  Contacting Valve to query this might be an idea if you want to pursue this.  Either way, thanks for drawing my attention to them.  Cheers, --Plumbago 15:34, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

"Zen"?
First line of the article:

Xen (pronounced "Zen")

I don't think this is right. For all I can remember, the only time this name was actually pronounced was in the "epilogue" of HL1, by the G-man (I uploaded a recording of it here). I agree that it sounds like he says "Zen", but you can also interpret the pronunciation as "Xen" with a less prominent k-sound. The speaker is known to have articulation problems, after all. Fyrius 19:45, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Since nobody reacted, I suppose nobody minds if I edit this part out. Fyrius 16:03, 22 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I think 'X' at the start of words is supposed to be pronounced as 'Z'. Think 'Zylophone' or 'Zenon'. Drutt 18:33, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

While that's one way to pronounce a word-initial X, I don't think it's the "right" way per se. Some people do pronounce the k-sound. But either way, there's no point in putting that in the article. Fyrius 19:14, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Xen's "breathable" atmosphere
Just editing this page, I realised that B. Calhoun and Adrian Shephard are both able to breath, and yet there is no evidence of helmets worn. Similarly, there must be some sort of pressure for the Vortigaunts to live there without imploding upon teleport. As I mentioned in the article, scientists lying around Xen are found with helmets on, and there's little point in wearing a helmet unless you need to artificially create a temporarily-breathable atmosphere.

I've not heard any comments from the Valve team about the atmosphere on Xen, and I couldn't find anything in a Google, so it might be worth emailing Marc Laidlaw about it to confirm. --Druckles (talk) 16:54, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

It is worth pointing out that the scientists probably wore the helmets a s a safety precaution as they had never visited the border world before. they would have unlikely wanted to remove their helmets due to the nature of their environment. The fact that most of the scientists that went to Xen were killed probably means that the few that had discovered the world was breathable were killed before they could tell others. Needless to say the fact that both Calhoun and Shephard were able to breath there, as well as another scientist Shepard witnesses plunging to his death suggests that the world must surely be breathable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.194.123.28 (talk) 19:52, 3 March 2008 (UTC)