Talk:Xiao Zhuang Wen

Merge
Isn't she the same person as Xiaozhuangwen Grand Empress Dowager? Is this article a dupliocate? User:Dimadick
 * I suggested that Xiaozhuangwen Grand Empress Dowager be removed, it's a duplicate of Xiao Zhuang Wen. All the information contained in the Xiaozhuangwen Grand Empress Dowager article appear in the Xiao Zhuang Wen article, but not all information contained in the Xiao Zhuang Wen article appear in the Xiaozhuangwen Grand Empress Dowager article. Highshines 19:34, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
 * "Xiaozhuangwen Grand Empress Dowager" is an more appropriate name because it follows pinyin conventions and includes the title. And that page is older and contains more page history.--Jiang 02:07, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The name "Xiaozhuangwen Grand Empress Dowager" is far too long and too complicated to be an Wikipedia article title. People rarely type that exact long name but more frequently use "Xiao Zhuang Wen" or "Xiao Zhuang" when doing research. Highshines 05:20, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Your argument is not reasonable. Xiao Zhuang Wen is not a proper Pinyin.  Although it's shorter, it is also wrong.  It can be only maintained as a redirect page for the convinience of some people. I will redirect it to Xiaozhuangwen Grand Empress Dowager if no one opposes in one week. --Neo-Jay 07:04, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Each Chinese character possesses an important and special meaning, and deserves to be treated equivalently to an independent English word. Combining two or three Chinese characters into one English word is an abuse to the value and dignity of each individual Chinese character. If you must combine the title of an Empress into one English word, you must at least use dashes between each characters, like Xiao-Zhuang-Wen
 * There is already a number of links referring to the page "Xiao Zhuang Wen". If you move "Xiao Zhuang Wen" to "Xiaozhuangwen Grand Empress Dowager", you must change all the links too. Also, the name "Xiaozhuangwen Grand Empress Dowager" is inconsistent with the style of naming other Qing Dynasty Empresses. She was an Empress before she became a Grand Empress Dowager, and after she died, she was again addressed as an Empress. Her name is simply "Xiao Zhuang Wen" regardless of how many titles she held during her life. "Xiao Zhuang Wen" is the proper way to name her, and you should go to the category Qing Dynasty empresses and see how the rest of the empresses are named.
 * The article "Xiaozhuangwen Grand Dowager Empress" should be removed, because the informations it contains are already in the article "Xiao Zhuang Wen", and "Xiao Zhuang Wen" contains even more information. There is no reason to keep the complicatedly-named article "Xiaozhuangwen Grand Empress Dowager", because the name is not common, and is hard to find using a search engine on the web. Who created the title "Grand Empress Dowager"? It is not a recognized way of addressing an emperor's grandmother in English, and is known by very few people. People and historians nowadays commonly refer to her simply as "Xiao Zhuang Wen". 70.71.11.217 17:21, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Are you Chinese people? Do you understand Chinese language and Pinyin? Have you seen the Chinese articles like Kangxi Emperor and Emperor Guangwu of Han? Do you mean that they should be renamed as Kang Xi Emperor and Emperor Guang Wu of Han? --Neo-Jay 18:50, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Xiao Zhuang Wen was just moved to Empress Dowager Xiaozhuang, and Xiaozhuangwen Grand Empress Dowager was redirected to here. I think that the current title is OK. But Xiaozhuangwen Grand Empress Dowager should be moved here and Xiao Zhuang Wen should be redirected to here because Xiaozhuangwen Grand Empress Dowager has a much longer edit history (from 12:21, 22 November 2003) than Xiao Zhuang Wen (from 22:49, 28 September 2006). Hi, Colipon, why did you move without discussing on this page? --Neo-Jay 09:46, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

A solution is to move Empress Dowager Xiaozhuang back to Xiao Zhuang Wen and then requet to move Xiaozhuangwen Grand Empress Dowager to Empress Dowager Xiaozhuang at Requested moves. --Neo-Jay 20:43, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Never Empress
Technically, Xiaozhuang never became Empress in her own right, but only gained the title of Empress Dowager after her son's accession to the throne. Therefore her "reign" dates are inappropriate. Colipon+(T) 00:53, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Move?
Oppose. As I argued, Grand Empress Dowager Xiaozhuang, not this article, should be moved to Empress Dowager Xiaozhuang. Highshines established a series of improperly named Chinese empresses articles such as Xiao Hui Zhang, Xiao Kang Zhang, .... All of those articles should be moved to their proper names! --Neo-Jay 19:32, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, as much as I think that Highshines has made some valuable contributions to imperial biographies, he/she has made the naming of the articles a big mess. I think we have to start doing something abut it.--Niohe 22:47, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * This is a mess and was not set up properly. If the two articles are merged, it doesn't matter which is moved to the proper title (Empress Dowager Xiaozhuang).  Since Grand Empress Dowager Xiaozhuang has a longer edit history, it should be retained as the primary location.  That is also where the move request at WP:RM directs.  Let's try it again on Talk:Grand Empress Dowager Xiaozhuang with some guidance.  —   AjaxSmack     06:30, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Merge and move proposal
Merge Xiao Zhuang Wen into Grand Empress Dowager Xiaozhuang and rename to Empress Dowager Xiaozhuang.

Please discuss at Talk:Grand Empress Dowager Xiaozhuang.

—  AjaxSmack     06:30, 8 January 2007 (UTC)