Talk:Xtort

Move?
move to Xtort. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 06:57, 27 February 2010 (UTC) XTORT → XTOЯT — ([}} move])
 * This is the actual spelling of the album. See image on original page. Torchiest (talk) 00:47, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * WP:MOSTM about the Cyrillic letter used as a decorative form of 'R'. Or move to Xtort? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 06:44, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose The work styling in necessary. I think Anthony is on the right track with Xtort.--Labattblueboy (talk) 15:22, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Strong Oppose According to MOS, the correct name of the article should be Xtort (unless "XTORT" is an acronym).  TJ   Spyke   17:26, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose due to reasons given above. Agree to move to Xtort. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 20:13, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose as per WP:MOSTM guidelines on use of all-caps and non-standard characters for decorative purposes. Support move to Xtort. --DAJF (talk) 03:11, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose current proposal per WP:MOSTM. Support move to Xtort.  —   AjaxSmack   05:30, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete no mention of notability is in the article. Oppose per MOS:TM, WP:USEENGLISH, WP:Cyrillic. 70.29.210.242 (talk) 07:08, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Notability is assumed if the performer(s) are notbale, i.e. have an article at Wikipedia. See WP:NALBUMS.  —   AjaxSmack   19:41, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Move to Xtort. it's not an acronym, and we don't use capitalization for simple stylistic choices. Jafeluv (talk) 14:31, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Support move to Xtort. I found all-caps pointless without using the proper Cyrillic letter, but I'm fine with moving it to a normal capitalization heading.  I also did some research and determined that the supposed Russian word this represents, want, is spelled XOTЯT, not XTOЯT, thus, this appears to be solely decorative.Torchiest (talk) 01:45, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Move to Xtort, for reasons already given. This should never have been changed to all capital letters in the first place. 206.180.38.20 (talk) 12:42, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Discogs as source
Discogs is used by other pages that are listed as good articles, e.g. Madonna's Ray of Light, so I would guess that it's acceptable. However, I did add a couple references from KMFDM's official page for the U.S. releases. Any ideas what other sources would be useful? I've seen amazon.com references get removed for being considered spam, but I think that's a reliable source for some information. Torchiest (talk) 15:41, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * This was posted November 2009, which is recent enough to be valid now. That's why I removed the reference. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 04:27, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Re: BRD
The info given in the paragraph about Nihil is unnecessary, as this is a page on Xtort, not Nihil. All that should be there is "In late 1995, the band was coming off two tours in support of their last album, Nihil. ", and perhaps a second sentence mentioning that they were getting big: "Nihil's success prompted Carrie Borzillo of Billboard Newspaper to state that KMFDM was "poised to make a significant commercial breakthrough." . A wikilink to Nihil can tell the reader all about how great Nihil is, and can keep this page sticking to info on Xtort. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 22:20, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I understand where you're coming from, but I think stats do a better job of showing the increased exposure and popularity, whereas your suggested second sentence, particularly the word "prompted", sounds a lot like WP:OR to me. Like I said, my main goal is to get this to GA status, and I'll do whatever is necessary to achieve that.  As outlined above, the history and production sections are the remaining weak points, and I'm trying to find a way to appropriately build them up.  We need a third opinion on this. Torchiest (talk | contribs) 23:26, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
 * "particularly the word "prompted", sounds a lot like WP:OR to me." Agreed. Having re-read the source, she thinks it's the new album, not the success of Nihil, that made them poised etc. So since that phrase has nothing to do with Nihil, how does it support your keeping the extraneous info on Nihil ("moved Carrie Borzillo quote to connect this fact")? MrMoustacheMM (talk) 00:45, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it's a progression. Nihil was a success, and had a hit single.  Borzillo thinks Xtort is bound for greater success.  We can't know her reasoning, but we can see that it fits into the history of more exposure and commercial breakthroughs.  If you really think it doesn't fit, I'd love it if you could figure out another way to expand the history with new content.  I've been digging, stretching, and googling like crazy to try to put the pieces together. Torchiest (talk | contribs) 02:47, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll have a look and see what I can find this week. Hopefully we can flesh out the history and clean out the in-depth Nihil stuff simultaneously. Other than that, it's starting to look pretty good, hopefully it'll be up to GA status soon! MrMoustacheMM (talk) 04:15, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, I think I've got a plan to re-arrange it. Check it out and see what you think. Torchiest (talk | contribs) 04:18, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Having said that, I'm still very open to any more good information you can find that you think would add to either the history or production sections. Torchiest (talk | contribs) 04:59, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Credits
Fixed the credits based on what the 2007 booklet actually says. If a source is being used as a reference, that source should actually be used. If other sources are also being used as references, they should be cited. Any questions about these edits should first be discussed here (including if the 1996 booklet says different). One thing I did notice is that Connelly is not credited in the booklet as having sung on "Craze", but I think he may have (I have noticed occasional errors in these re-releases, such as FM Einheit apparently does sounds on the track "Dogman", whatever that is!). I changed it based on the booklet, but if the old booklet or another source says he did sing on it, then that should probably be re-added. I left the mixing and mastering info in, but since it doesn't appear in the 2007 booklet I added a couple cite tags. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 01:44, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry about the credits mix-up. I saw that you had cleaned up the credits a while back, and I thought you'd used the 2007 booklet as a source to check them at the time.  I hadn't actually double checked, and since I know you've used the re-release notes before, I thought they were accurate based on that.  The original 1996 liner notes give credit to Connelly for vocals on "Craze", as well as writing credit.  He also gets writing credit on the website.  I'll add another source for the mixing.  The mastering is a little iffy, as I originally got it from discogs.com. I might just pull that. Torchiest (talk | contribs) 02:41, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 * No problem, I just was confused when stuff was missing/added etc! I do plan on finishing up cleaning up credits for the rest of the albums (Angst-Adios) soon. Sounds good on the assorted missing credits from the 96 book, I kinda wondered about that! I can't say I'm very impressed with the assorted errors I've found in these booklets, you'd think a band that prides themselves on quality could get this sort of thing right! MrMoustacheMM (talk) 04:15, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm a bit surprised myself. I thought the new credits would be the end all be all, but apparently not.  Oh well, such is life. Torchiest (talk | contribs) 04:19, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

KMFDM FAQ as a source
That FAQ has been listed as a source on the main KMFDM page for four years, and it's been linked to from KMFDM.net as an official band-endorsed source of information for years as well.Torchiest (talk | contribs) 12:59, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think that makes it a reliable source, however I've asked at the Reliable Sources Noticeboard here, hopefully they can give some guidance. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong and it can stay. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 21:31, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I found a reliable source, amazon.com, for that release date (some Russian site that appears to have no real editorial control isn't the best source). MrMoustacheMM (talk) 00:02, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know why I didn't look there first. For some reason I was thinking it wouldn't be there.  I got my copy for free way back in the day, and with the whole limited edition thing I didn't think about them actually being sold. Thanks for fixing it. Torchiest (talk | contribs) 01:11, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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