Talk:YTMND/Archive 1

I removed two of the links at the bottom
Both of these are incorrect:
 * picard.ytmnd.com/ Example of a YTMND - The Picard Song, previously the most viewed YTMND.
 * ualuealuealeuale.ytmnd.com/ Second Example Batman: ualuealuealeuale, currently most viewed YTMND.

Furthermore, the list on ytmnd is updated constantly, so putting those up there is a useless waste of space. 71.241.239.93 03:52, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't know where on Earth you're getting the impression that that's incorrect, because Picard WAS the most-viewed YTMND up until today, when Batman overtook it; something which hasn't changed for quite a while, list updating or not. No false information there. I'd also debate the "useless waste of space" argument, too, considering the "incorrect" information is in fact correct. --Shadow Hog 05:10, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Moderation vs History
I think the moderation section should be merged into history.

Here is my proposed change:

Delete the moderation section and add this to the end of the history section:

"On October 15, 2005 a stricter moderation system went into effect which deleted many YTMNDs and added user age verification before the display of any offensive or unmoderated YTMNDs."

I left the last sentence of the moderation sentence out fro this because without it the meat of the information is still there.

Anyone object? Celerityfm 21:44, 18 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Made the change. Will move to inactive unless anyone has anything to add :) Celerityfm 13:55, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

What about the redirect to goatse?
A section should be added about the time ytmnd.com and all subsites redirected to goatse. I don't know when that happened or really anything else about it though. Hopefully someone else does. --Ssj4android 22:58, 5 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Woah? This actually happened. Damn. Perhaps the archive.org website might have something about this. Celerityfm 15:05, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Nope. All 55 copies of the page on Archive.org are clean. Huh, I've never actually WANTED to find goatse before, but it doesn't look like it's there. There were 2 copies that wouldn't load.. maybe those have it. They were web.archive.org/web/20040612022542/www.ytmnd.com/ and web.archive.org/web/20040924221105/ytmnd.com/ (warning: possible goatse images at these links!). If we can get some good data on this I think it definitely deserves a one sentence note in the history section of the article. Celerityfm 21:56, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

RECENT HISTORY
Deleted:

Recently max goldberg has been contacted by none other than stephanie (the popular nick junior television show star of lazy town) and her father to announce a cese and desist order on all images relating to her in any suggestive or innapropriate positions or else a lawsuit would be filed against max and the site. Already a number of ytmnd forum useres have not complied to the new rules and regulations therby being "perma-b&"(permanently banned, get it b+andpersand=b&, lolamirite?!).Any who, the users have been unbanned (most of them) but the most surprising factor of the whole ideal is that the forum was "visited" by stephanie herself! she even racked up some nice noob kills while she was there and then she suddenly dissapeared. the users and mods did thourogh background checks on her (ip address checks and timestamp checks) but nothing really turned up anything until a ytmnd forum user (currently banned now for no reason) caught the little alternate account devil in their tracks and the search was over. ending in a wild goose chase with nothing but random bannings, new mods, and stricter forum rules.

~Proud YTMND forum user Pocketjizzy

-- Zondor 01:51, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

re-added first part (not the part about the forum alt) since it seems preety notable

Content of the YTMNDs information
Zondor added this commentary and I removed it (in my edit I stated "Info on YTMND content/how they are used should be put in fads and memes article"), then it was readded, removed, readded again and removed again. Obviously we disagree about it, so we need to talk about it. In his last edit Zondor made the following note "require brief encyclopaedic description of content" as in, he felt the article needed a brief encyclopaedic description of content found at YTMND. I argue that this is already in the article, please read on for more details:

Here is the proposed addition:
 * The content of the YTMNDs on YTMND.com include a list of YTMND fads and memes, inside jokes, and news commentary. YTMNDs are often used to make a movie, musical or photo montage.

Besides going against this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Guide_to_writing_better_articles#Avoid_blanket_terms I also think that the article as it stands now does a great job of describing the content of YTMNDs already. Another issue with adding information like this to the article is that YTMNDs are so diverse that people will add on to this description and cruft will occur. This article has already been deleted twice... adding stuff like this to the article starts us down a path that might cause us to be put up for deletion again.

Examples as to why Zondor's addition is already covered:
 * "[the first YTMND] consists of a repeated photo of actor Sean Connery and, in large zooming text, "YOURE [sic] THE / MAN NOW / DOG.COM". A recording of Connery saying "You're the man now, dog!" from the film Finding Forrester repeats continuously." (Describes the content of one YTMND in full detail)


 * "Goldberg's new creation inspired others to make similar sites with other movie and television quotes." (Describes content of even more YTMNDs)


 * "when major weblogs began linking to the now infamous YTMND Captain Picard tribute" (Brief description of the content of yet another YTMND)


 * "The content of YTMND remains one of the most definitive examples of memes and memetics on the Internet." (This describes the content many other of YTMNDs)


 * The screenshot displayed in the article illustrates the content of a YTMND.

Further, YTMNDs that are "inside jokes, news commentary and montages" are YTMND memes/fads. They are already covered in the YTMND memes and fads article and that's where they belong.

The third time that Zondor added his content he completely removed the definitions of YTMND at the top of the page and replaced it with his new content (The previous two times he had added the content under fads and memes), so I restored that section back to the way it was before. He did however add an informative note about intertextuality under fads and memes that was pretty cool.

Sir, if you still want to add your proposed content to the article then please respond in kind. I hope you understand why I have been so rabid about deleting extra commentary in the article.. I fear admins and mods coming in and chopping our article to pieces (as they have in the past by removing things they don't think are encyclopedic) and/or deleting it again (which has happened twice already). Perhaps if we work together we can find an appropriate edit of your content that will fit in the article better rather then having to erase entire sections to make room for it. But, for the reasons I stated above I really feel like your new content does more harm then good. Does anyone else have any thoughts/ideas about this? Celerityfm 13:12, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Zondor added the following text as an inline HTML comment along with an NPOV tag:
 * Note: User:Celerityfm makes a majority of the edits on this YTMND article thus he or she considers he or she "owns" the article. The article should at least give a brief excyclopaedic information on the content of YTMND such as: "The content of the YTMNDs on YTMND.com is diverse and include but not limited to popular expressions such as fads and memes, inside jokes, and news commentary. YTMNDs often project a movie, musical or photo montage." Be bold in your edits. All edits are released under the GFDL. If you don't want your writing to be edited and redistributed by others, please don't submit it. You're encouraged to create and improve articles. The community is quick to enforce the quality standards on every article you edit.

I am removing both the NPOV tag and the inline comment. The boilerplate text states, "The neutrality of this article is disputed. Please see discussion on the talk page." However, it is obvious from both Celerityfm's comments on the talk page, and Zondor's inline comment, that the neutrality of the article is not what is in dispute here. In fact, IMO, the text itself is (generally) NPOV. Additionally, no actual discussion of NPOV issues occurs on the talk page. I would ask that Zondor (a) place his comments on the talk page where they belong rather than in the article itself (whether enclosed in an HTML comment or not), and (b) not misuse the boilerplate dispute tags when the dispute tag being used does not match what is actually being disputed. --Dachannien 08:14, 9 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Thank you Dachannien. Of course I agree with you. Just for the record I do not think that I "own" the article. Celerityfm 13:20, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Moved after a week of no further discussion. Celerityfm 21:32, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Merge with Fads?
An anonymous user suggested that the two be merged. I've removed the suggestion on the page until the author of the suggestion comes to talk and states their case first. Furthermore the merge guidelines for proposing a merge state that you are to place the merge suggestion link on the source article (the one that will disappear after the merge), and the anonymous user placed the merge suggestion on BOTH articles. If they don't come forward in a week then this will move to inactive discussion. Celerityfm 15:13, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

I definitely like the idea of keeping fads on a separate page. The fads page is fairly cluttered and half the "fads" listed, most people don't even consider "fads". I'd say if it doesn't contain more than 150 search results its not really a fad. Regardless, thanks to everyone who maintains this page, it's hot. Macks 14:37, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

I think merging the two would be a mistake. This article has already BEEN deleted and torn to shreds by admins because of having things like fads on it. I agree with Macks :)Celerityfm 15:05, 6 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Moved to inactive Celerityfm 14:49, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Example of animated YTMND ?
Someone put an example of an animated YTMND in the external links section today. I'm afraid that if we let that stay there then other people will start adding other "examples" and it'll become an editing challenge. Thoughts anyone? Celerityfm 18:20, 5 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Moved to inactive Celerityfm 14:49, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

About page reference?
This was added to the opening paragraph of the article. My read of it was that the author meant that Max purposefully left the about page on YTMND blank because he wanted YTMND to remain undefined.. yet he also links to the wikipedia entry, so I'm not sure if the author is correct. So rather then delete it entirely, I figured we could chat about it here if anyone was so inclined. Celerityfm 13:58, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Original text:
 * "YTMND's about page briefly describes the about section as under construction, nothing else and points to the YTMND article on Wikipedia to describe itself. This may suggest that YTMND intentionally leaves itself undescribed to continue to be defined."

Will move this into inactive discussions next week if this is still inactive by then. Celerityfm 14:23, 3 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Moved to inactive Celerityfm 14:49, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Postmodernism?
The entry on postmodernism looks like it was generated by the www.elsewhere.org/cgi-bin/postmodern/ Postmodernism Essay Generator :P I mean, it looks like it makes sense but I remain skeptical as to it's relevance. My main concern is whether it's the kind of thing that will lead to admins/mods tearing up our article again. I'm going to delete it if no one vouches for it by 9/19/05.


 * I would support it's deletion. Despite sounding generated, it is also rather unsubstantiated. -- Jon Dowland 14:38, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Ok its gone. A few days late but I wanted to let this discussion run a bit further without receiving any feedback one way or the other. Will copy and paste it in here in case the author, or anyone else, wants to discuss it once they notice it's missing. Though the concept of simulacra is pretty interesting, things that are copies but that do not have an original... I can see it kindof applying to YTMND, but I think that the section was also too technical.. maybe the author will notice it is missing and come here to explain further. Celerityfm 13:36, 21 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Here is the removed text that made up the Postmodernism section "The YTMND phenomenon represents a provocative example of postmodern culture. It can be recognized as a product of the current philosophical state of society, postmodernism.  Each individual creation on YTMND, while unique in itself, is an amalgamation of preexisting concepts, images, and sounds.  Thus, the sites generally lack originality.  The sites demonstrate the notion of 'copies of copies' introduced by Baudrillard in his studies with Simulacra.  In addition, the portal embraces the ideas of cynicism and apathy, and strongly emphasizes the role of the indifferent observer in its approach."

If noone wants to talk about this further I'll move it to inactive discussions at the beginning of October unless someone objects :) Celerityfm 14:02, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Moved. Celerityfm 14:21, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

The fact that YTMND is post-modernism at its best is very important...needs something on the page. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.240.208.138 (talk • contribs).

Undeletion
Votes for undeletion

VfD Results
This article has survived a procedural VfD following its undeletion. See Votes for deletion/YTMND for details. --Allen3 talk 23:35, August 19, 2005 (UTC)

Current State Section Proposal
This has been implemented.

Well an admin decided our article was too [crutfy] and deleted a bunch of stuff out of it. Damn. This is where it happend http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=YTMND&diff=21079216&oldid=21008097.

My Proposal: We should rename the origins section to history and add a short VERY PITHY paragraph detailing the major events of the site as described in the stuff that was deleted out. I think the history of YTMND is very important and all too often is overlooked. The forums, which are also important in their own right, should go into their own article as was suggested before, just like the fads have. Unless anyone objects?

The discussion below pertains to these edits here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=YTMND&diff=19953284&oldid=19951532 but I think it's still relevant.

Prior Discussion
HEY - the fourms section is being put back. chances are the people that keep removing it have little knowledge on the history of YTMND. YTMND forums have a large, extensive history and i think it deserves to be documented. Also, the YTMND fourms help show the history of the actual site as well, i.e. the unmoderated period and the accumulation of stupid posters leading to the windter 2004/2005 downtime (for example). thank you. omanguy


 * The forum section was never deleted. It was relocated a paragraph or two down the page so all the relevant forum/community elements were together instead of scattered across the article. Reverted to pre-edit form unless anybody else objects. --24.9.8.61 04:09, 1 August 2005 (UTC)


 * you've still deleted a great deal of information, what do you care if this article actually goes into interesting detail? i'm not in the mood to bicker with you over wrether or not to condense the forums section. i am assuming that you are a strictly front-page YTMND user that despises the forums, but if you were to actually look into it they actually have a very interesting history. if anyone else is with me on this decision i am assuming they will take the apropriate actions. omanguy


 * It got the sanction and thanks of a wiki admin. That should mean something. --24.9.8.61 23:10, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

Someone make a YTMND Forums article and then you guys can get extensive with the X-YTMND/INTERFLOP info. Throwing any mention of it on this page is worthless. --Buzda

Talk Page Reorganization
I went ahead and organized this into sections so it'll be easier to read and discuss without crosstalk. Additional discussion on how to organize the talk page can go in this section :) Celerityfm 14:41, 16 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I've moved inactive discussions into a new section and made those discussions subsections of that new section, in descending date order. Cool? Celerityfm 18:54, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Silly kids
Have you nothing better to do than this? http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=YTMND&diff=20027505&oldid=20027402



Fads and Memes

 * Fads and Memes has been moved to another page alltogether Celerityfm

This page needs to mention fads and memes; they're a crucial part of what YTMND is about. The section should mention Khan, Stapler, Works It, Fails at Life, Fire Spirit, and PSP at the very least. Conangator deserves an honorable mention as well.

I agree about the fads and memes but I think it should be organized differently. It will be hard to do this but I think it would be most informative if it could be listed chronologically along with information about the # of spinoff pages created. Max is working on a category system that should make this easy to research soon but for now if you know the information please share it :) Celerityfm 14:27, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Shadowhog mentioned in the Picard discussion that we should link to the first instances of the YTMND themes in the fads and memes section. I second this motion as well. Though as an aside I'd like to say that the fads and memes section is shortly going to get out of hand, it already kindof is-- Max is apparently working on a category system and from what I understand the YTMND site may automatically begin cataloging fads and memes, in which case I think it would make the most sense to just link to the "live list" rather then make our own list here. If we do decide to keep a list running here then I think we should try to establish some guidelines as to what the cutoff is for appearing in the list so it doesn't grow to GIANT proportions. As a side note I'd like to say that you guys have done an excellent job with the list and that its been really informative.. its helped me enjoy YTMND even more :)Celerityfm

The category system is already up. ytmnd.com/categories.html


 * 69.215.55.227 thanks for the link... thats not the final category system though right? Isn't that the "suggest a category" page that Max linked in the forums to help him make the final category system? This gives us a good look at what is ahead though.Celerityfm 17:11, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Oh, true. It's a starting point for filling out fads we were missing though.


 * Definetly. Hopefully Max will finish the category system soon because our fads and memes section is starting to get a little out of hand :) Everyone is doing a good job keeping it in check though, but its interesting to watch it grow and progress. Keep in mind that Max ORIGINALLY made the YTMND site in response to the fact that keeping track of all the YTMNDs *by hand* had become impossible-- I fear the same for this fads and memes section, but hopefully the categories system will fix that when it goes live. Celerityfm 20:07, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Holy god the fads and memes section is on fire. Shadowhog and others you rock for cleaning it up all the time. Though I gotta give Shadowhog props for his banter in the comments of his edits :P KEEP RAWKIN. By the time the list gets ridiculously large we'll probably have a nice site to link to on YTMND that will take care of that function. AM I RITE? Celerityfm 19:20, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Shadowhog keep holding it down!!! Celerityfm 18:58, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I hate to say it, but looking over the list, I think we might've hit the point where it's better that the section is just dropped. It's getting VERY hard to maintain, and with all the elaboration going on, it's also getting VERY clunky. --Shadow Hog 03:24, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't think it should be dropped, but perhaps it should be trimmed to only include the biggest fads (Conan, Vader, N stole my bike, PSP, Barrel Roll, etc.) Right now the section includes things like Thwomps, which are obscure fads at best. Nightwatch 6 July 2005 21:34 (UTC)

Misc Chatter
Wow Kraftstoff, great stuff! Most of it concerns the forums though so I suggest we move the forums part of it up into the section about the forums. What do you think sir?

And speaking of forums, what are you referring to when you say "merged" on the forums-- are you saying that 2 seperate people's accounts were moved into one account that is controlled by 1 person and the other lost it or was it 1 person with multiple accounts that got merged into one?

As far as the commentary on the main site's state being uncertain, I'd be so sad if YTMND went away again. Can you provide some forum posts/comments by Max/etc showing that YTMND is in danger of going away again? Or is it just complaints going on in the forums/site comments. I'm sad that the forum is going away too but YTMND will not go away after the forums are gone. The way Max has been improving it/building on it, it seems that YTMND is stronger then ever and here to stay for good.

Celerityfm 18:41, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Well, as a regular on loltheinternet/XYTMND (my name there is Zorn) I'd say I'm pretty knowledgeable on this. When I say merge, well here is the story. There was once a member by the name of Charade who pretty much nobody liked. At all. He would post long and poorly written rant like messages, frequently post images of lolicon, and obnoxious webcam images, including a picture of his penis with "X-YTMND <3" written on it when one of the admins told him he would be banned if he didnt do so. The final straw was when he posted a picture of himself performing goatse, in which Zoloft, a female moderator, merged him with another member by the name of Communist. This basically means that that person's posts are added onto the others. This became a fad. A person who was strongly disliked was merged with another person, usually communist. A person who never or rarely posted was merged with another person, usually communist. And a person could request to be merged with another person. This led to many people, though rather undesirable members being merged with others. (2 people who stopped posting due to being ridiculed were merged with me) Respected regulars were merged with others at their request, such as JEWKILLER and Strossus, for obscure reasons. (JEWKILLER claiming to be the same person as Herr Ragnar, Strossus saddened at the loss of Lolchan, etc.) I might post more about LTI sometime. The current state of LTI has changed again. Despite Sub-Zer0 threatening to close down the forums, he reopened them and recently announced that on July 9th, EVERY member will be given admin powers. This could be a prank though, as a friend of mine was disscusing to host LTI as an archive on his own website.

As for YTMND, Max doesnt seem to have any plans to close down the site- Its just that there have been numerous complaints, especially on the forums, about overdone fads and rampant unoriginality, such as the PSP fad, the Conan fad, the NOOOOOOOOO fad, the Moskau fad, among others, like forced forum fads. Some people have even gone to rampant downvoting and trolling, and spamming YTMND shock-sites in the comments sections of other sites. YTMND seems to be still going strong however, as Max has commited alot of time to making it a better site. -Kraftstoff

oic --Keith, evil dude 29 June 2005 04:15 (UTC)

yeah it was pretty embarrasing to write all that :gonk: -Kraftstoff

One day, when your grandkids asks you "What the fuck was this LTI website?", you can sit them down on your knee, and oh boy can you tell them stories. --Keith, evil dude 9 July 2005 15:02 (UTC)

Captain Picard Tribute in the external links?
I originally added the Captain Picard tribute in the external links because I mentioned it in the Origins section of the article and also linked to the external links section from that section so that the reader could view the tribute. Sakebalboa removed the picard tribute from the external links citing "self promotion"-- so I reverted it in the hopes that Sakebalboa would see the reversion and come to the talk section to discuss reasons for removing it so we could come to some kind of concensus on it. Personally I think the Picard tribute is such an important part of the YTMND history that it deserves its own special link in the external links section. What do you all think? Celerityfm 13:57, 23 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I think that we should remove it from External Links, BUT, add it to the Fads and Memes section right next to its mention, and, likewise, add links to the first instance of every mentioned meme (and mention which ones aren't work-safe, like, say, Ridin' Spinnas). --Shadow Hog 01:43, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

Ok anyone object to Shadow Hog's suggestion? I second it :) As long as there is a Picard link is in there I think it really doesn't matter where it goes :) Celerityfm 14:03, 26 May 2005 (UTC)


 * It's been a week without any objections so I moved the Captain Picard Tribute out of external links and added a link to it's YTMND next to it in the fads section as shadowhog suggested. If there isn't any further discussion on this by next week then we should move this section towards the bottom of the talk page unless their are any objections to that? :) Celerityfm 20:19, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

X-YTMND Discussion
Needs stuff about X-YTMND/Lol the internet--Keith, evil dude 22:06, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

There COULD be X-YTMND stuff, but nobody cares about it.

I do. :[--Keith, evil dude 21:32, 21 May 2005 (UTC) 21:31, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Keith. Celerityfm 14:00, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

I added some stuff about LTI/X-YTMND. I might add more since the site will be shut down soon, but most people wont care since it was it was a pretty closed community that didnt accept very many people. -Kraftstoff

I cleaned up your entry, zorn. Made it less confusing and and got rid of what was too much detail. --Keith, evil dude 00:09, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

thnx d00d -Kraftstoff

Mmmm Hmmm. --Keith, evil dude 29 June 2005 04:16 (UTC)

SO LTI IS DOWN AND I'M PRETTY BUMMED. MY DIRECTION IN LIFE IS UNCERTAIN, I AM THINKING OF BECOMING A HOODLUM ROAMING THE STREETS. --Keith, evil dude 9 July 2005 15:05 (UTC)

Outmoded Article Removal Discussion
Is this entry sufficiently encyclopaedic to stay? Its subject seems suspiciously esoteric to me. --80.1.224.6 07:30, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

bone.ytmnd.com why not?

To the one who wants this page removed:

You're the dog now, man!

Can I just say this?

Nobody cares. Keep the article.

free ytmnd <--- I'll take it!

but max is silly

lole

Goddamn internet nazis -_-

In Soviet Wikipedia, I deleted your comment! Pacific Coast Highway 05:55, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

Ghost Freeman is not pleased.

Yeah,I am totally awesome.

All hail YTMND!

Now,where is high pitch eric?

Not in search results
I'm just curious...doing a search on "YTMND" does not bring up the YTMND page or List of YTMND fads page as results. What's going on?

Source of the soundbyte "You're the man now, Dog!"
Is it really from Finding Forrester? I remember an identical soundbyte from the movie The Rock, when Sean Connery's character is leaving the island, leaving Nicholas Cage's character to save the hostages.
 * Yeah, it is. I remember seeing and hearing the EXACT same sound clip while watching Finding Forrester in an English class. -djflipstarx @ 128.120.57.147 18:53, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

ytmnsfw?
Anybody know what ytmnsfw stands for?
 * You're the Man Not Safe For Work? --Shadow Hog 14:56, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

I think it's basically what Shadow Hog said with a slight difference: You're the Man now dog (Not Safe For Work).

LEARN TO USE THE PREVIEW BUTTON
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=YTMND&action=history

starting above my edit, there's like 3 edits per contributor in a row. stop it.

~Walker

Gay Fuel
Until someone explains, in detail, what the Gay Fuel and Asiacopter fads were, I'm removing this -- FrenchIsAwesome

Most attempts at forum fads after Gay Fuel have failed (with the exception of the Asiacopter fad).

Viewhacking
Unfortunately, a new, cheap way to garner votes and views is to change the name of the site or to change the substance of the site to trick people into clicking the site and bumping it up to the top of the YTMND list. Since its inception and spread, the term "viewhacking" was coined for this practice and thus became the general phrase. The original person to do this, TDP, only did it to see how long it would take to get 100,000 views; he was successful, and the final version now lists the site's previous incarnations. However, several others followed after that, and has since become a fairly imminent nuisance. Such actions are generally frowned upon and subjected to low votes, much along with the practice of using misleading search terms or titles to attract viewers to a page. On rare occasion, the titles are updated to keep in relation to a site that has been only moderately changed, such as an update, fix, or response to attention.

Possible stuff to merge from List of YTMND fads
Please put new discussions above this header. Since it's looking likely that that page will be utterly deleted, I'm putting the not-list contents here, in case anything - ANYTHING - here can be rewritten into the main article. At least a description of the fads would be nice (I don't think the current paragraph is a definition), and something to that effect should be in here. --Shadow Hog 22:11, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

YTMND.com
The website ytmnd.com ytmnd.com is known for its tendency to propagate a great number of fads and in-jokes. The list that follows identifies several major such fads; as such, it may be incomplete. Note that the fads almost never consist of only the elements indicated for them; indeed, the fads could not be as popular without variation. Also, these variations tend to include elements from other fads.

Intertextuality
It is not uncommon that many of these fads are used in conjunction with others. Some of them also rely on having an element in the original YTMND getting replaced by another one, usually another fad (most notably the PSP and Hasselhoff ones). It is also not uncommon to see fad YTMNDs redone in the style of older computers or video game consoles. As ideas, the subject matters of YTMNDs are constantly evolving and producing new combinations as mass self-replication continues by the second. A prime example is the What is love? YTMND. It was soon followed by What is NES?, made to look as if the clip was playing on a Nintendo Entertainment System (NES), complete with an NES version of the Haddaway song. This was then followed by What is a-ha?, a scene done up in pencil along with the song Take on Me. This idea was then merged with the Tiger Handheld YTMND theme with What is tiger?. It was even mixed with the HBP Spoiler fad for What is Dumbledore?.

The YTMND Forums
The YTMND forum community has, on occasion, pushed several invented fads to the front page users, with the occasional successes including reaching the Top 15 Viewed YTMNDs list as well as the Top 5 Rated YTMNDs. Forum fads, by definition, begin on the YTMND forums. The first of the forum fads, Mike Done, was created with the intention of taking an inside joke even the forum users did not get and thrusting it into the spotlight to confuse or annoy front-page users. Other forum fads followed, including "Tennis Man," and Gay Fuel. Asiacopter was an odd fad. Its popularity was sparked only by the remake of a YTMND (originally made by Inkdrinker) by DrWorm, but set to FFVII music, plus a thread calling for a Zerg Rush of asiacopters. A select few ytmnd users took it upon themselves to get the fad going, and sparked a huge battle with the big fad at the time "Professor X had one weakness." Eventually the front page was filled with ____copters and weaknesses. Some notorious Asiacopters are Freakasianzoidcopter, Vadercopter (a cult classic), and Stairs had one weakness. Another such forum fad is where users gather together at a certain time and start producing sites with sound and text, but no image. The purpose of this is to confuse the users who only look at the front page of ytmnd. They will think that there is something wrong with their computer, that YTMND is broken, etc. The forum members then up-vote the site by giving it 5's and they post such comments like 'hahahah this is the best ever!'. Most of the time, they combine loads of fads together in the title and some put a (refresh), indicating that once the page is loaded that the viewer must refresh the page to sync it all up. When the forum members do this, it confuses some of the front page people, but it does not confuse many. This is usually because not everyone participates and sites are not made fast enough, so the 5 recently made sites could have two blanks and 3 regular YTMNDs.

As some forum members have explained, the unifying purpose of forum fads is not humor as much as the attempt to interfere with the fad-heavy business as usual on the front page. Despite this, however, this has led to many arguments between forums members, usually between people joining simply to express their annoyance with seemingly non-sensical series of YTMND's and regular users of the forums. It has even led to arguments between other regular users themselves, which as a result some users have put images of fights and with the words "YTMND FORUMS" displayed in several users' signatures (this can also be attributed to the general childishness of some users). It has also led to a YTMND itself entitled "THE OFFICIAL YTMND FORUMS YTMND" with an excerpt of the trailer for the film Green Street Hooligans edited with the avatars of some users to give people an idea of how disorganised the forums can be.

Juxtaposition?
Holy crap, that's alot of juxtapositioning! I believe that I originally used the term juxtaposition in the article, but now I think that it's no longer accurate: Nowadays YTMNDs can consist of a single image, not neccesarily tiled, and without sound and without text. So unless the image itself contains a juxtoposition, then there is nothing juxtaposed and hence the article is now innaccurate. As much as I love the word (thanks Piers Anthony!), I think it's time to pull the plug on it. Anyone else object? Celerityfm 22:02, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

It's pretty rare that a site doesn't include both a sound and an image, and most of the time they dont, it's due to an upload error. I'd be sad to see it go. Macks 19:55, 3 January 2006 (UTC)


 * If you say so then we'll keep it :) Celerityfm 04:49, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Forum section
Wow, the forums section is pretty detailed! Maybe a bit too detailed. Especially since the top of this talk article says not to add any more forums stuff to the article :P So. Lets nip this one in the bud? Or should there be a forum section? I'm just trying to protect the article from being chopped up by mods again, deleted, or from becoming to overgrown/less useful. So I think we should discuss this :)

My vote is no, we should not have a forums section in the YTMND article. The YTMND Forums used to have their own article, but that article was deleted. I think you'll agree with me on this if you take a look at the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Log/2005_October_7#YTMND_Forums VFD discussion about the YTMND Forums article and consider the points brought up in that discussion when making your decision. Thanks! Celerityfm 03:07, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

I think that any major forum events that had an effect on the main site itself should be mentioned in the history section. Any major forum events which were contained to the forums themselves should not be mentioned in the article. --Virulent 78


 * The YTMND forums are dead, and there's not much chance of having them back up. Thus, I think they deserve atleast a little section. (I noticed this unsigned comment at the bottom of the talk so I moved it up here) Celerityfm 00:05, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Agreed virulent. It's been a week, I'll edit the forums section as you suggested. Celerityfm 23:22, 27 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Made the changes, and then some. Hope everyones happy with them :) If not, please sound off here. Celerityfm 00:05, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

And now Max has made a comment on this item, glad to have you aboard sir!

The forums
This is rediciulous, why is there no information of the forums aside form ytmnd day? "YTMND forums" redirects to the article and people will expect information. As soon as protection is lifted I'm gonna re-add some forum info. Johhny-turbo 04:05, 11 January 2006 (UTC)


 * The reason the "YTMND forums" article redirects to this article is because there USED to be a seperate article for the YTMND forums but the wikipedia community voted to delete the article, stating that a forum's history is not encylopedic. Everyone who cared at the time, myself included, voted to keep the article, but there weren't enough votes. There are procuderes for requesting an article to be undeleted though- if you decide to do that please post a link here. However, as stated at the top of the talk page, PLEASE do not add additional forum information to the YTMND.com article! Thanks :) Celerityfm 02:52, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

What about just a mention? It should at least be mentioned that the forums dont actualy talk about ytmnds most of the time. Also where can I find the deletion discussion. If it was agreed to redirect it then there should be at least a mention of it since it developed it's own unique culture. Johhny-turbo 23:30, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Well to be fair they are mentioned twice in the article :) Here's the deletion discussion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/YTMND_Forums http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/YTMND_Forums ... can anyone else chime in on this subject? My feeling is that adding any more information then there is about the forums into the article will just snowball into a big mess :(

IRC channel
the official ytmnd irc channel is now located on irc.ytmnd.com/ytmnd irc.ytmnd.com, as displayed on the website. please refrain from including irc-related information on the main page unless instructed otherwise by max himself; it's really not encyclopaedic.. whatsoever. thanks. jon 00:23, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

redaction
Removed silly line "Extra British-American users mock simply, 'Wily old Richard locked David.' (Read under lines entering scripture)" from initial paragraph. (being that it's bound to start an edit war as it spells out "ebaums world rules").
 * Yes, thanks for that. I encourage everyone to continue removing this line if it reappears (don't forget WP:3RR, though]]). Wikipedia is not a propaganda machine, after all.[[Image:Weather rain.png]] Soothing R  00:02, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Had to revert to an older version because someone added nonsense to the article. --Stilanas 14:16, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

FBI?
In the list of YTMND fads article it says, "The phrase was born from frequently threatened police and FBI intervention during a string of forum raids in the summer of 2005." I find no further information on this on wikipedia or a google search. What happened? The FBI raided forums? DyslexicEditor 14:48, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * A common practice of YTMND forum users is to "raid" forums. Usually, this is done by organizing a large group of people to all sign up at a particular forum and post hentai or goatse or generally get themselves banned. --74.228.220.248 19:35, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

LOl they're fun.

Where'd the section on YTMND day go?
Why was it removed? Klosterdev 08:15, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

"Viewhacking" merge
This section has been on the List of YTMND fads article for a while now, and it really belongs here. With that, I propose a merge of Viewhacking to this article. -Whomp 20:08, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Come on, no one? Another 3 days, and I will boldly do this myself. -Whomp 12:36, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

- I saw you merge it. No one will search for 'YTMND Viewhacking' to find information on it. People will search view hacking and it redirect them to the list of fads page, which is a good idea.
 * What I meant was the fact that it was in the fads article made no sense. And yes, since no one else protested my decision, I will now do it myself.
 * ^^^That^^^ was me, by the way. -Whomp 16:16, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

the history section is stupid
It's like it was written by somebody that joined in the fall of 2005. Most of it is about the ebaumsworld bullshit.
 * Then why don't you improve it? The more cut back on that subject, the better. -Whomp 23:37, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

"Hacking Feature"
What the hell is this segment on the bottom of the article?

Was it written by a 14 year old Thai kid and then translated into English by a semi-literate Dutch child?
 * That has to be the most bizarre personal attack I've ever heard. Regardless, someone probably agreed with you and excised it. — THIS IS M ESSED [[Image:R with umlaut.png]] OCKER (TALK) 00:44, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Criticism
The entry for YTMND is biased towards those who are fans of YTMND. There is a large backlash against it online (which more often than not starts flame wars on forums and ends in the entire thread, with plenty of good points, being deleted), which is which I believe there should be a "Criticism" section.

Common criticisms include:
 * There is not a lot of humor value to most YTMNDs, that it's just a tired parody that wasn't so good to begin with.
 * It takes little effort and no talent to create a YTMND, while many flash animators, video editors and web designers work hard learning their craft and spend days or even weeks making something that may or may not become the next big internet fad.
 * Most YTMNDs are merely quotes from other sources with a picture of whoever said it; in most cases it was funny the first time and so there is no reason to do it again.
 * Many YTMNDs borrow from several sources without giving credit to who created what was borrowed. Key examples include a YTMND with Cookie Monster as the tiled background, and the song "The Internet is for Porn" from Avenue Q as the background music, and the Picard Song.  In most cases the YTMND becomes more famous than the source material, taking credit away when credit is due. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lord Ramco (talk • contribs) 12:25, April 29, 2006 (UTC).
 * You have some good points there. First, however the whole thing needs to be NPOV. I could write that section, but I'm afraid I may bias it. Why don't you start it off? -Whomp 19:43, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think that these are good points. As for the first three, they're simply arguments that the site sucks. These aren't 'common criticisms'; they're the opinions of people who just don't think that the site is funny. We're not going to tack on any 'by the way, ytmnd is stupid and it doesn't make me laugh' to the section because it's just not legitimate criticism. Granted the articles shouldn't say 'ytmnd.com is funny', but neither is there a need for 'ytmnd is not funny'. About your last point, though-- I love fanimutations as much as the next man, but they borrow from multiple orders of magnitude more sources than ytmnds. -Nick Kostalas

Lord Ramco 05:44, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't go so far as to say they are reasons why the "site sucks"; I believe they are fair arguments, and to have a truly balanced and nonbiased article there needs to be criticism. Nearly every other Wikipedia entry of this nature contain notes of common criticism, yet the YTMND not only has no negative information, its entry is actually being used as the official "About" section, and when that happens it proves that it is not static, objective and unbiased.  I personally feel that the article is bordering on a fluff piece for YTMND rather than an objective look at the site, as well as the complete public opinion about it in a societal context.  I am greatly offended by the way you phrased your comment, Mr. Kostalas; I never said that the site sucks or did I mean to say that in what was posted, I merely wanted to balance the article out and make sure it contains information that is not only relevant but important to the source material.  Lastly, the criticisms I posted in the entry were not my own words, but general consensus from those critical of the fad as a whole, which I believe to be very important in balancing the article on both sides.  I'd suggest you look at the eBaums World entry to better see my intentions, as it brutally and honestly states the criticism and controversy surrounding it in one section (and is objective in saying so), and is well-grounded, factual and fair in the rest of the entry.  -Lord Ramco

I mean no offense, but I'm going to have to disagree, as they way they are currently worded they sound very much like one person's opinion on the subject, and not a nonbiased analysis of a general consensus. If something along these lines is to be included, and I do not see why it should not be, they should be reworked. (unsigned)

I'm gonna have to agree with the above, this is so far from being even relevant. There are small pockets of people who think everything isn't funny, whether it's Charlie Chaplin or Mike Meyers or Homestar Runner. Noting "some people don't think it's funny" is entirely pointless. (70.71.162.88 01:57, 2 May 2006 (UTC))

Now I regret agreeing to add that section, seeing how it is chock full of weasel words, and very POV. Until someone can write a decent section (WITHOUT the bulleted list format [sorry, big pet peeve of mine]), that tag will pretty much stick. -Whomp 18:56, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I think what's currently in the criticism section is sort of a little misguided. Claiming "There is a large backlash against YTMND, the site, its users and its culture, that has been surfacing online since YTMND's inception" isn't really viable with the information in that section. That being said I'm not going to try and claim that YTMND wasn't launched into the public's view through the work of non-YTMND users. If you take a look at the most viewed sites, you will see a lot of the content there are items where the user creating the YTMND was most likely not involved in the creation of the content. I think this is completely valid criticism and it should be focused on more so than saying "some people don't find this funny or original", which can be said about almost anything. I also agree with mentioning the possible offensiveness of fads such as NSMB and making jokes about religion etc. I think it's pretty common knowledge that the forums are a cesspit of hate and idiocy that don't properly represent the YTMND community, as most of the forum goers don't even use the main site. Saying YTMND's are too easy to make is really how you look at it. It's easy to make a flash animation of stick figures fighting each other. As with anything, if a person spends time making quality content it's noticable. While you may not see it very often on YTMND, it does happen. Hopefully this will help the criticism section become a little more NPOV. Macks 00:41, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 21:02, 4 May 2016 (UTC)