Talk:Yo Soy 132

Task force needed
Hi, I need a task force to create this article. It's a World-famous trending event involving thousands of Mexican students. See http://articles.cnn.com/2012-05-24/americas/world_americas_mexico-protests_1_enrique-pena-nieto-protests-mexico-city-mayor?_s=PM:AMERICAS

20-dude (talk) 03:48, 31 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Maybe a more experienced Wikipedia editor would like to fix the citations issue. This article seems to have been created and improved mostly by non-registered editors so far. Quite strange considering its rating on the project's importance scale. junglejill (talk) 19:54, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Spanish article translation
Hi, how about if we start translating the spanish version?... By the way, there is a small but significant misunderstanding at:

Yo Soy 132 (I Am 132) is a Mexican protest movement led by college students against the former long-time ruling party PRI and their presidential candidate Enrique Peña Nieto.

It should say:

Yo Soy 132 (I Am 132) is a Mexican protest movement led by college students in favor of democratization of media, demanding a national tv broadcasting of the 2nd. debate of the Presidential candidates as well as proposing a 3th debate.

please, check the spanish version for references. what do you u think?--2.39.117.114 (talk) 19:24, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm the IP who translated the Spanish manifesto... the Spanish language article seems to have multiple issues, so I would be against translating it as is. It's certainly a good source, though. Are you able to translate? Regarding your suggestion, I agree the current description is inaccurate, however your version conflicts with the statements made about the movement's intention of going beyond the elections etc. Will make an edit to that effect. junglejill (talk) 19:54, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Why 132?
What's the significance of "132"? Please explain in article, with source. Thanks. Pam D  07:44, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Claims about using public funds
Hi, 20-Dude, it's great that you address the citation issue for this claim, but your changes don't seem quite right. Obviously we need actual citations, it's not good enough to mention several newspapers without linking to where the claims were made. If you can provide links, I will happily edit the statement to reflect their content. ʝungle jill  03:34, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I've added one source to the claim. I found this http://leaks.hohesc.us/?view=09MEXICO2545
 * "Valdivia Machuca [...] claimed that Beltrones was behind the Congress Permanent Committee's request that the National Electoral Council investigate several governors, including Pena Nieto, for illegally using public funds to finance PRI campaigns."
 * This is apparently separate to the claim about using public funds to boost public image. There seems to be a lot to the story, but I can't find anything about the Congress Permanent Committee and Pena Nieto - perhaps there's something in Spanish? I don't have the Spanish-fu skills to find out. ʝungle  jill  11:36, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Another editor worked on this claim and added some information, while removing a valid reference and adding an irrelevant one. This claim needs to be explained properly, and then included in Enrique Pena Nieto. I've just spent two hours editing that editor's contributions so I'm leaving this article for now. ʝungle  jill  03:24, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

References messed up
The references are not showing correctly - they link to the wrong place. What's up with that? ʝungle jill  03:18, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Other manifestations
I have added a couple of manifestations cause there are dozens in favor and against, as well as references and videos. About generationmx, I have cut off the last phrase cause it looks propaganda. Clearly, the text about generationmx represent a message against the spirit of the document. Therefore, in order to avoid an edit war, the supporters of generationmx should not declare in this document what they promote but instead, news and references related to this document. I suggest they should open a new document and link it from here.--L.D.Marco 07:22, 13 June 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marcolopezdiaz (talk • contribs)


 * Hey, Marcolopezdiaz. Like I wrote on your talk page - you can't add videos inside Wikipedia articles. The bot that reverted your edit also informed you of this.
 * You removed an entire well sourced section about GeneracionMX. I think we both agree that information about GenerationMX is relevant to this article. It would've been better to improve the section, remove claims you found inappropriate, etc. - not delete it altogether. If you were unable to improve the section, it would've been better to post your concerns on the talk page. Also, as I wrote on your talk page - if your contributions are disputed, don't just put them back in - discuss the reason on the article's talk page.
 * Other than these issues, your contributions to the article are valued, and I hope you continue to participate. ʝungle  jill  11:04, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I was mistaken, you did not remove the entire passage - rather you removed the title of the passage about GeneracionMX and removed the (sourced) claim about their goals. I disagree that it sounded like propaganda. What you did do is add this reference - http://www.proceso.com.mx/?p=310641 - attributed to a claim that doesn't appear in the reference. I assume that was an error.


 * Regarding your comment - "Clearly, the text about generationmx represent a message against the spirit of the document" - this article doesn't have any spirit. It is not meant to be in the spirit of Yo Soy 132, but rather give factual information about the movement. So if there's notable criticism about Yo Soy 132, it will be included here no matter how negative. ʝungle  jill  12:47, 13 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Agreed. All I want for this article is to give both sides equal weight and report what the movement is about. Junglejill, shoot me a message if you ever need anything. I'll be completely free in the weekends, by the way. Maybe we can work things out together. ComputerJA (talk) 12:53, 13 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Also, could you explain what made you refer to GeneracionMX as five people? As far as I can tell, sources refer to them as a group. ʝungle  jill  12:53, 13 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Here's some info that may be helpful: Yo Soy 132 will march a day before the elections (even though the IFE stated that they will sanction them for doing so). Noteworthy indeed, but let's wait for more info to come up. ComputerJA (talk) 12:28, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Supposed threats by GeneracionMX
I don't read so fast in Spanish. Does anyone feel like summarizing notable content from http://www.proceso.com.mx/?p=310641 ?


 * Already done, unless you think the article has anything interesting to add. ʝungle  jill  11:23, 16 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I believe these alleged threats are black propaganda. Only one newspaper gave the note and mostly overt propagandist blogs reproduced it. There is no record of anybody pressing charges or investigating/commenting these claims further. Given that an alleged breach of privacy on government records occurred a major investigation by a government agency should have followed, but nothing shows up. Anyway, GeneracionMX made similar claims the very same day so I added them to maintain neutrality. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jcnegron (talk • contribs) 10:51, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Occupy Movement and 99%
Hello, The movement name has nothing to do with the Occupy and 99% movements, and its name is not inspired from these movements names, so that line should be removed.

There is a long historical tradition of student´s demonstrations in Mexico, non-stopping since 1968, and it is about democracy in a country where not always was safe to protest. I find that the line reading that they were inspired in any way from the Anglo movements is a lack of respect for so many people who have given even their life for democracy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by M cyclops (talk • contribs) 15:24, 13 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I have added a citation needed tag because it currently appears to be original research. If a source cannot be found in the next day or two, the information can be removed.  That being said, I highly doubt that this movement was not influenced in any way from the occupy movements. Ryan Vesey  Review me!  15:32, 13 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Wow, Tbhotch is going total ref-ninja on the article, including this claim. Pretty impressive. As far as I could tell, the sources provided for this claim mostly refer to 15-M as an influence - which makes sense for Mexico - am I correct? Should we change the claim to "influenced by the 15-M movement"? ʝungle  jill  17:25, 13 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Changed to include both movements as influences. ʝungle  jill  11:24, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

EPN and PRI not targets
.... Hello, i could help if you want, im a mexican woman interested in truth. I believe your article is misleading and you should change it. yo soy 132 is not agains peña nieto but against the biased information given by the media. i suggest you read wikipedias article of yosoy132 in spanish, is very good. and also here is yosoy132 page.

http://yosoy132.mx/

201.167.223.150 (talk) 01:30, 14 June 2012 (UTC)Mexican Woman201.167.223.150 (talk) 01:30, 14 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Added citation requests for the claims. I think they are appropriate as the whole movement started with opposition to EPN. ʝungle  jill  06:49, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Rewrote the claim. I believe it's pretty neutral right now. ʝungle  jill  06:57, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Demonstrations info from the Spanish page
The Spanish article has info about many other demonstrations - this is the thing that's most lacking in this article. Let's use it as a base - no direct translations please, so that the style of this article stays consistent. We can also use these photos from Commons. ʝungle jill  22:18, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Context
As an outsider, I don't feel this has enough context. What is the relationship between the Yo Soy 132 movement and the 2011 Mexican protests? Are they the same, or opposed? --Kevlar (talk • contribs) 00:21, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

San Salvador Atenco 2006
Here's an informative article on how the Atenco incident in 2006 plays a role in this movement. ComputerJA (talk) 23:21, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Neutrality
Hello, I'm mexican, and I've been witnesing the "yosoy132" movement, and there are some misunderstandings.

1st. The presidential Candidate, Enrique Peña Nieto, didn't hid in a bathroom of the IBERO University, as there is no reference of this act in any mexican newspaper, even Proceso, (a well known leftist semanary who has continously criticized the PRI candidate), hasn't published anything like that.

2nd. The yosoy132, defined themselves as "anti-peña" and declared its support to diverse left organizations. They defined themselves anti peña, in a manifiesto that was available in the internet at the ends of May, when the movement began to take shape. I've been looking for this manifiesto, (which I read at ends of may), but it appears to be that it has been eliminated from the web, I don't know the reason.

3rd. The yosoy132 didn't achieved the national broadcast of the second debate as they claim. In fact, the tv networks and radio networks reached an agreement to broadcast the second debate. I remember the day of the second debate, Azteca Siete, TV Azteca secondary tv channel, was airing the trilogy Pirates of the Caribbean, while its main channel, Canal 13, (13 Channel), broadcasted the debate.

Fantom261092 (talk) 04:28, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Just make sure to provide reliable sources and we'll gladly work on this together. I just noticed that there isn't a citation in the article for the paragraph that says EPN was in the restroom. I'd wait for other editors to discuss this too. Thanks for consulting the talk page. ComputerJA (talk)
 * 1.- I think the situation of the restroom was mentioned in the source. There was widespread video footage of him discussing with his team  how to escape the mobs outside the restrooms. That was actually the butt of many jokes and cartoons afterward. Even his Adversary Josefina Vazquez Mota used it as an attack in the second debate. He wasn't actually hiding in the restroom it was more like he had to use it but the mob went to encounter him outside the restroom area. 2.- It would be interesting to see the manifesto you mentioned, because either yosoy132 changed it to adopt a nonpartisan posture or it wasn't an "official" manifest. 3.- Somehow the wording of their petition changed from National broadcast to Broadcast in the main national channels. The first debate was broadcasted on the lesser coverage channels 5 (Televisa) and 7 (TV Azteca). The 2nd debated was broadcasted in national TV channels 2 (Televisa) and 13 (TV Azteca) obtaining the biggest rating for a debate or political discussion program since 2000.189.217.51.241 (talk) 08:51, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

List of countries where protests have taken place
I am deleting this list because protests have taken place in every country in the world. The list is silly and doesn't add anything to the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.82.130.232 (talk) 05:04, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Just a NOTE
The webpage http://yosoy132.mx/ was hacked supposedly by PRI partisans a few months ago... The only official page for the movement #YoSoy132 is: yosoy132media.org It is confusing and misleading and the solely mention and the link to the cited page should be removed even from the talk pages, I don't know exactly what is the policy about this situation. Thanks Greetings! mantarayo (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:37, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi everyone!
I am working on this page and planning on bringing it up to date and expanding the article with new pictures and information. Anyone have any suggestions as to what should be included?Camotero2013 (talk) 23:21, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your interest in YoSoy132. The article needs to be expanded and brought up to date (major updates on the article stopped since Peña Nieto became President in December). I'm not sure if you speak Spanish but Spanish Wikipedia has a more detailed article than this one. You might want to use that as a starting point. Most of the information prior to December is probably the most important because that was when YoSoy132 reached the headlines; the student movement, as of 2013, has quieted down. For some, the movement began to slow down due to its lack of clear objectives and cohesion. For others, I assume it was because its main spokesperson, Antonio Attolini, joined a show on Televisa that aims to criticize Televisa for undermining Mexican democracy. Yo Soy 132 has been mentioned in the media a number of times throughout 2013, but their protests have been under an umbrella of protestors (like the teacher union, anarchists, and leftist supporters). If you ask me, I think adding some background on student movements in Mexico would be very helpful and interesting for readers. I use Google Books a lot, so here's a good start if you're interested in writing a background.


 * Let me know if you need any help, and thanks for your interested in this subject. Regards, ComputerJA ( ☎  •  ✎  ) 00:27, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for all the feedback everyone! I am putting a link to my sandbox so everyone can see what I am doing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Camotero2013/sandbox. I am working on transferring information from the Spanish wiki and incorporating it into the English wiki. I am also including new information and translating news sources as well. That's it for now but I am always up for some tips. Camotero2013 (talk) 05:30, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Feedback needed
I have completed the revisions that I believed were necessary. The article is now updated and no longer is in the present tense. I went with the mentality to transform the article into more of a historical article. The lead in summary was trimmed down to the key points and the origins section was revised by rewording the content and deleting content as well as providing new citations and a new image. I looked to the Spanish wiki Movimiento YoSoy132 as guidance in including detail that was needed. The protest section originally had 3 protests, all specific to Mexico. I decided to delete these and include information about how these protests have occurred in states all over Mexico and in different cities of the world. In the Goals section, I included the General principles under the goals section, and created a new section for the manifestos. I included a new section detailing the connections made between YoSoy132 and the Occupy movement as well as the Arab Springs. I cleaned up and relabeled a section now titled Related movements in Mexico and included Rodrigo Ocampo's photo for the Generacion MX section. Also I changed photos depicting President Pena Nieto. I went back and deleted citations that were no longer in existence or were broken links. I tried my best and am open to feedback and revisions as well. Thanks a bunches!Camotero2013 (talk) 02:24, 21 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi,
 * I have removed two sections because they were direct copy-pasting from another source. Please note that this would have been a copyright violation which is why they had to be removed. I suggest that if we state the manifesto paragraph in our own words, it could be re-added.
 * Regards,
 * TheOriginalSoni (talk) 02:31, 21 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Hey TheOriginalSoni. The 'Manifesto' and 'General Principle' sections that you just deleted have existed in the article for over a year, since early on in this article's history. They were just now added and deleted in quick succession. I generally agree that having excessive quotations is bad, but think the manifesto paragraph is not excessive and should be retained as it is the principal defining statement of the movement. The Non-free content criteria policy allows for quotations and this is only an excerpt of the full manifesto. Besides, the Yo Soy 132 movement would never actively copyright its manifesto. If anything, they would be using a Creative Commons license much like the Occupy movement did. I do agree that the General Principles section amounts to too much quoted material, and is overall less important to include than the manifesto. Gobōnobō  + c 03:36, 21 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi Gobonobo,
 * The time period for which the stated text has stayed on the article has no connection with whether it is permissible or not. Also, I see no evidence of them using a Creative Commons license, and we cannot assume anything in that matter. Unless otherwise specified, copyright is implied.
 * Their official site contains © 2013 #YoSoy132Media at the bottom at all it's pages that I've seen. While I have not been able to locate the manifesto on the official site yet, it might contain the same license as all the other pages. If you have located the Spanish version of the manifesto there, please give a link. The wordpress blog, which also may be official, has nothing indicating any copyright information.
 * Coming back to the text, the only way the section could be included would be under a non free criteria, or if the manifesto is shown to be free. The current form of the manifesto is correctly attributed, but I digress that the text included is not brief. While the second paragraph is alright,I believe that the first paragraph is too long a direct copy to be considered "brief" (as the policy requires the content to be). Hence, while I agree that the manifesto section needs to have quotations, they must be made a lot shorter to comply with the relevant policies.
 * As for the general principles section, I do not think it requires quotes, and could be brought back to the article after a complete paraphrasal.
 * Regards,
 * TheOriginalSoni (talk) 12:22, 21 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Yosoy132media.org is not the official site. The wordpress blog you mentioned links to the official site, and you can see that they have published the manifesto there under a Creative Commons CC-BY-SA 3.0 license. Fair use does not need to be invoked for public domain works or text available under a CC-BY-SA-compatible free license, so in such cases the extent of quotations is simply a matter of style.
 * Additionally, even if the content were not under a compatible license, the first paragraph is not so long as to violate the non-free content policy. WP:QUOTE provides some good guidelines for this. I note that the manifesto is highly pertinent to the movement, and the quoted portion provides context for the article while still being representative of the source document. Gobōnobō  + c 19:32, 21 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Gobonobo, the bottom of the article states that Yosoy132media.org is the official site. If this fact is incorrect, then I suppose the article needs to be changed. (I personally took that statement at face value since I am not a Spanish speaker)
 * Also, the site you mentioned indeed does have a CC-by-SA licence. But that is a Wiki, and can be edited by anyone. Hence it does not appear to be the "official site" of the movement.
 * I went through all the relevant points of WP:QUOTE (an essay) and the most relevant portions in this context were The copied material should not comprise a substantial portion of the work being quoted. 179 words out of 684 in the manifesto are being quoted here, which forms a substantial portion.
 * Hence I once again state that this fair use is not permissible by the policy, and request it be reduced/removed.
 * TheOriginalSoni (talk) 21:47, 21 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Hey Camotero2013, I left similar feedback for you on your sandbox talk page, but wanted to have it here as well. While some of your peer editors advised you to make the article more concise, I don't think so much content should be removed from the article. Perhaps there is a way you can update the outdated information without deleting so much of the content that previous editors worked on? I think that ComputerJA provided some excellent suggestions for how to improve the article above. Specifically he/she mentioned the need for expansion of the article, especially of the background and the events that have transpired since 2012. Here are some other suggestions:
 * The old lead section was a bit long, but it did a much better job of summing up the article and describing what the protest movement is about than yours does. An article of this length will typically have three to four paragraphs in the lead section.
 * The protest section documented the country-wide protests that the movement was based on and I think the level of detail there was good. Your revised protests section doesn't include any of the details and much of it is dedicated to a lengthy list of places where rallies and marches occurred. A good article will use more prose and have a narrative quality. Also missing is the last paragraph of that section, which tied the protests into the 2012 elections, an important facet that could be expanded upon.
 * Please let me know if you have any questions. Gobōnobō  + c 04:15, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Manifesto section removed
Gobonobo, I have now removed the manifesto section due to potential copyright violation concerns. Since we'd rather err on the side of caution in issues like copyright, editors are advised not to re-add the statement back without discussion on this page. But I do welcome editors paraphrasing the manifesto to add it to the article.

(Please note that the same concerns also apply on the talk page, which is why we cannot paste the section here)

Regards, TheOriginalSoni (talk) 22:06, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Ongoing?
Are these protests ongoing? I haven't heard anything about them in a long time. Charles Essie (talk) 21:06, 16 October 2014 (UTC)