Talk:Yolandi Visser

Modifying problems
I tried to mod the Acting career/Film section, I added REF's to all the info I tried to change. It was all verifiable info on the movies she has been in or done. What came back was a note from cluebot NG. I know for sure I did everything correctly. So is it like a automatic type thing I got caught in? Because Im not trying to take a hour again and set it all up, just to have it removed by a automatic program. Send me a provate note if you have input on this issue.

--Gene Zef2 (talk) 22:19, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Ok never mind guys, I figured out how to add the verified information, and add REF's. so Im cool I think. Plus no one has chewed me out in a day or so.

But in the section....

Die Antwoord[edit source]

Die Antwoord is a rap/rave group consisting of Visser, Ninja (Watkin Tudor Jones) and DJ Hi-Tek (Justin de Nobrega).[4][5]

REF link "5" takse you to a Drake homophobilc slur link but there is zero mention of this in the topic. as you can plainly see. Or at least from what I see.

Here is the link......

5. Chris Payne (2015-03-03). "Drake Called Homophobic Slur by Die Antwoord". Billboard. Retrieved 2016-03-14.

And it takes you here...

http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/the-juice/6487654/drake-die-antwoord-homophobic-slur

So I can remove that and repair the entire section? --Gene Zef2 (talk) 04:04, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Without doing the tracking back to why that is there, I suspect that is a remnant of bad cutting and pasting from somewhere, either the Die Antwoord article, or Waddy's article. In the context of discussing Die Antwoord's use of homophobic slurs, or Justin De Nobrega's sexuality in relation with those slurs, and the culture of South Africa, it makes sense to reference this article.  If Yolandi had actively been using those terms, it might have made sense to include a discussion of it here, but I don't remember that being part of her article. The reference to that article would have been about what it says about them and de Nobrega, and not really about Drake.  In the context of simply discussing Yolandi's part in Die Antwoord, there is no reason to include it. Centerone (talk) 14:59, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

Centerone, if that was you that fixed that stylized Y in the yolandi name, thank you. I dont have that key that makes that letter.

Also I finally figured out how the links work so Im only trying to mod what I can back up with REFs and links to those Refs.

I also changed the picture if there is a problem with it let me know but I believe it would be considered fair usage since its everywhere. If not let me know.

--Gene Zef2 (talk) 23:39, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

Marriage
I Have read/watched quite a few interviews with Ninja/Yolandi and I have seen nothing about them being married. They typically play down any romantic relationship while proclaiming to be good parents together. The two of them with their daughter were on the cover of South Africa Rolling Stone. Their daughter was also in the video Enter the Ninja. Also within the past couple of days Yolandi was on the cover of South African FHM Magazine. This will be my first go at being an editor but I'll see what I can do to add to this article. I'll find some sources, etc. 24.7.139.94 (talk) 01:01, 31 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Nowhere in this article does it mention them being married, as far as I can see. Kaini (talk) 04:38, 31 July 2012 (UTC)


 * It was mentioned in the comments below 24.7.139.94 (talk) 00:49, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Yo-Landi and Ninja have never been married and even though they do have a child together they are not in a relationship and have not been since 2007. They are both great parents/friends but they are not together. talk

Two things
1) The photograph is overexposed. I guess that's because Yolandi is under bright stage lights while wearing shiny or light clothing, and she's pale and blonde. Still, it would be great if someone who knew their way around PhotoShop could fix it up.

2) In one of the video interviews, Jones mentions that he and Visser have a child together. Should this be mentioned? Dylan Flaherty (talk) 05:18, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) the photo sucks, full stop. if a better one with appropriate licensing exists, then it should be replaced. 2) i don't see why not. --Kaini (talk) 05:20, 6 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I've done enough photography to feel sympathetic about the overexposure. The photo is not great as it stands, but it's fixable. I just don't have the tools and skills.


 * As for their child, my big problem is in remembering which video it was in. Also, given the fact that Jones often stays in character, I would prefer a secondary source to confirm my interpretation. In other words, I want a journalist or other reliable source who agrees that Jones wasn't just being weird. Dylan Flaherty (talk) 05:23, 6 November 2010 (UTC)


 * i seem to recall an interview where they talk pretty candidly about it and stress that it's their private life, and nothing to do with die antwoord... i'll see if i can dig it up --Kaini (talk) 17:56, 6 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Check out the article: I found it.
 * The reason I wanted to include it is that it gives some insight into their relationship. Dylan Flaherty (talk) 18:05, 6 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I saw an interview video on dieantwoord.com where they mentioned having a child together but a self produced interview hosted on their own website isn't the best source and the http://www.coyotechronicle.com/entertainment/enter-the-zef-1.2391265 seems like a compilation of stolen content. Jasonb80 (talk) 23:41, 6 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Agreed, the photo is not great and should be replaced. It was the only one I found with a reasonable amount of searching that had exceptionable usage rights. Jasonb80 (talk) 23:41, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Real name and marriage
Found a brief article on a reputable news site which confirms her real name is Anri Du Toit. http://www.iol.co.za/capetimes/band-have-the-answer-to-secret-of-success-1.1233050?ot=inmsa.ArticlePrintPageLayout.ot Stellaseeker (talk) 17:08, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
 * good find! i've been hunting for a WP:RS that mentions her real name for a while. it also confirms dj hi-tek as being justin de nobrega, something else i've been looking for. i'll add it later today. Kaini (talk) 18:00, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
 * thanks. Just her DOB to be sourced. I'm 99% sure she was born in 1981. Stellaseeker (talk) 19:44, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I've looked at that article again and I don't know if they actually ARE married.. could just be a journalistic bit of blurb put in between quotes from her dad. I seriously doubt he would say in one breath they're married and then refuse to talk about Die Antwoord in the next. Stellaseeker (talk) 19:42, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
 * oh, they're definitely married. i'm 100% on that. just gotta find a source that's very explicit about that, considering BLP. Kaini (talk) 20:23, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
 * found one here: http://www.mahala.co.za/uncategorized/max-doesnt-live-here-anymore/ from 2009, couple that together with the one I posted above, almost a year to the day.. weird Stellaseeker (talk) 18:30, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Article improvement
Respectfully to those who have worked on this article, this article is barely about Yolandi. I'd like to help improve it if someone would like to collaborate on it with me.Unirider (talk) 01:01, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
 * There is a huge lack of verifiable information regarding Yo-Landi. If you have any from a decent source, please feel free to add it. Stellaseeker (talk) 22:08, 29 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I am trying to refine the article and make it better, I have added REF's and links and added to the movies and films she has been in. I have not figured out what to write for he biography section. I could use a little help with that. --Gene Zef2 (talk) 00:26, 5 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Just a note Gene Zef2, references are not needed for articles that have their own pages on Wikipedia. Additionally, linking video content i.e. the individual songs is not needed referencing. I've reverted a good deal of your edits for this reason. Look into WP:Ref for more.  IVORK  Discuss 10:10, 8 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The Movie REFs was removed because they had songs in them? I dont understand why you would remove valid links to the actual movies. Without REFS, why are they even allowed? Without them its just someones word, and I didnt think that was allowed on wiki. In the past I have put info up only to have it reverted. So since all the movies that she has done, I should removed them.......... Since they dont have REFS. I cant prove she did the movies without them.

--Gene Zef2 (talk) 17:17, 8 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Linking a song or movie itself isn't the best way to reference it's authenticity. Instead look for a credible source that lists all her achievements, rather than the articles themselves. IVORK  Discuss 00:02, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Inconsistancy
On the 'Watkin Tudor jones' page at the bottom, it says that they are both vegetarians, based on a 2012 interview yet this article says they are both Vegans. Which is correct? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.3.30.69 (talk) 11:16, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

They are vegetarians. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gene ZEF (talk • contribs) 09:26, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Birthday
Per internet movie database Born: March 3, 1984 in Port Alfred, Eastern Cape, South Africa Bobmodikiw (talk) 04:49, 27 February 2017 (UTC)


 * As far as IMDB, it's not generally considered a reliable source for all the information on it, as it's user contributed without much oversight or fact checking, citations, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_IMDb Centerone (talk) 05:11, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

She changed her birthday date on VK from March 1984 to December 1982. No idea if any of the two is correct. http://www.famousbirthdays.com/people/yolandi-visser.html claims the first one is.

Any insights? --KAMiKAZOW (talk) 17:38, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Well famousbirthdays scrapes from other websites, and isn't a reliable source on Wikipedia per the couple of discussions on WP:RSN, so I'd take that one with a grain of salt. - Aoidh (talk) 09:09, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

I totally get that, its ok. Well what can I do to get the birth year added? Because I know it is 1984, but finding proof of the birth year online is hard as fudge. Whats my best option here fellows.

--Gene Zef2 (talk) 15:55, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Your best option is to find an article from a reliable source that says when the correct birthday is. Now, you said you were friends of theirs, so if an article in a reliable source doesn't have the correct information, you can tell them they can simply make sure they include that information in their next interview and let us know when it's published.  And/OR as discussed on this very talk page Last Year... "Same with birthday: Instead of weird edits, http://www.dieantwoord.com/ could just have a "Band bio" sub page. List the important info there, bam, done. --KAMiKAZOW (talk) 21:54, 27 May 2016 (UTC)  Indeed. Gene ZEF, it's pretty easy around here. Just add neutral content from reliable sources. The image, well, do as recommended above or upload one and email permission. Easy. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:10, 27 May 2016 (UTC)"Centerone (talk) 17:31, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

I do have videos somewhere that I'm sure she says her birthday is 1984, if I find those and upload them, can I use that as a ref link for her birthday? If the answer is yes I will look for them today, I would really like to get the birthday corrected.

As some of you may know on the internet its every thing from march 3 1982 - march 3 1984 - December 1 1984. I just want to make sure the correct one gets on there and I know that takes a REF link.

As far as them just making a specific video to correct all the issues on wiki though I dont see them doing that. :( It would be nice, but I'm stuck with what I have to work with.--Gene Zef2 (talk) 17:42, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Who said anything about a video? People said a bio.  As in a page on their official page that says their details.  You keep saying from what you know personally, that you know they want the birthday and other issues on the page fixed.  If they do, why wouldn't they just put it on a bio page?  Maybe your confusion is I said next time they get interviewed.  I don't mean a video interview.  I meant next time they get interviewed for an article about their work, they can slip in her birthdate. Then you will hopefully have a source of her correct date from a reliable source.  Or, they could just do what was already suggested a year ago and have a bio page with the details. Centerone (talk) 01:45, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

^^You must not been able to read the first sentence I posted? I do appreciate all you other comments though, they seemed very mature.

--Gene Zef2 (talk) 22:24, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Birthday issue
Some people told me I needed verification of Yo landi's Birthday. I found several links to her actual birthday. Not sure if this is enough to get her birthday put back on her profile CORRECTED not March 3rd. I already tried to mod it a few times only to have it reverted.

http://www.famousbirthdays.com/people/yolandi-visser.html

http://omygsh.com/post/249-hot-celebs-with-december-b-days/1?category=TRENDY

And the following video was shot in Hawaii on December 1st 2015. In it you can hear the crowd singing happy birthday to her.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1rEvum3Jqk

But if you dont want to take my word for it. Please take the word of the person this article is about.

https://www.instagram.com/p/zxqHxNQ8Lj/?taken-by=prawn_star&hl=en

She even states on her OWN instagram account her birthday is December 1st 1984.
 * I have removed the dates of birth as none of them are acceptable sources, except for Yo-Landi's instagram post, which only confirms 1st December and not the year. She has refused to say how old she is for years. I have also removed the place of birth as that is also unsourced. "Her" VK.com page is fake.Stellaseeker (talk) 22:04, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Her Birthday is December 1st 1984 http://www.famousbirthdays.com/people/yolandi-visser.html That is the correct year, 1984. --Gene Zef2 (talk) 00:29, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

Visser
We should not used the stylized Vi$$er in the body of the article. -Xcuref1endx (talk) 02:56, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

She prefers to be called Yolandi. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gene ZEF (talk • contribs) 09:26, 13 March 2016 (UTC)


 * It doesn't matter. In Wikipedia articles, we refer to the subject by their last name.  After all, we're not People magazine, we're an encyclopedia. BMK (talk) 06:03, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

I think where it is stylized in the biography section where it says it is stylized should be the only place it is stylized, otherwise I think it should just say "Visser" --Gene Zef2 (talk) 00:31, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

Career
An editor is turning the career section into a filmography and discography. Neither of those are necessary since the content is very limited, it could just be listed and does not need to include the cast of the film. -Xcuref1endx (talk) 05:53, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

After you see the picture can you please stop messing with my edits? I really do know Anri du Toit and I really am trying to fix her page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gene ZEF (talk • contribs) 09:12, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * This does not matter, the content that is added must comply with WP:BLP standards. No Original Research and what is included must be sourced to reliable secondary sources.  Editors have been attempting to help you and guide you through the process, suggesting that they leave you alone will likely only result in having your edits not complying with BLP standards and will be continued to be reverted. -Xcuref1endx (talk) 19:28, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

I will read it before I try to do anything else. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gene ZEF (talk • contribs) 20:42, 13 March 2016‎

COI / Unreliable information / fixing article?
Greetings, So Die Antwoord Staff came in, tried to make a bunch of changes, some of which were reverted, but then he was blocked because of his username and wikipedia policy. He came back I believe as Gene ZEF. He's making changes now, a lot of them, but he's getting better at what he's doing.. but he still wiped out a number of references. One problem is the general unreliable information out there about Yolandi and Ninja due to their desire to create an atmosphere around themselves artistically. As an example, we have an article that has a birthdate in it, however, other articles say other things, and Yolandi / Anri tells Gene ZEF something different entirely. How do we make sure the information is accurate and not OR when minor tweaks are made by Gene ZEF on their behalf? Things like getting a better photo direct from the source contributed to wikimedia, or fixing simple things like a birthdate I can accept as good things. Centerone (talk) 02:48, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I've left a message on G ZEF's talk page pointing out his obvious COI, and requesting that he not edit the article at all, simply make suggestions here for other editors to do, if they agree with them. Also, the last thimk GZ should do is make formatting changes, since he admittedly doesn't knopw how things arew done on WIkipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Beyond My Ken (talk • contribs) 03:14, 14 March 2016‎

Gene ZEF
SO here is what we did. Since you guys will not let us edit her page we went right around you and built a fan website and are starting to post the correct information. Have a look.

http://dieantwoord.forumotion.com/

Now we fought and fought with you people over "Waddy's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watkin_Tudor_Jones Wiki page" and still the page is not correct.

We hope that in the future a site such as yours (which is suppose to be full of correct information) Will let the "ACTUAL" people a wiki page is about, modify it to show corrected information.

We ARE however glad that Anri's birthday is now correct. Can you imagine how she felt to get "happy birthday" on March 3rd every year? When her birthday is December 1st 1984?

Now imagine how she felt when none of her fans wished her a "Happy Birthday" on her "ACTUAL" birthday?

Now we can imagine that you people feel some type of way about all this.... But this place suck's horse arse.

But "Die Antwoord World wide Fans" thinks you are unorganized, over moderated, your staff is under educated, your site is to hard to navigate, you have mods that have no candor or sense of human civility.

You do have one shining star. A woman named "Anna". She should be in charge of something big. That's the type of leader this site needs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gene ZEF (talk • contribs) 00:28, 26 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Are you referring to Anna Frodesiak? I think you're missing the joke if you are.  Still, you're probably not to the first or last to do so.


 * With regard to your comment of "We hope that in the future a site such as yours (which is suppose to be full of correct information) Will let the "ACTUAL" people a wiki page is about, modify it to show corrected information" - you need to read Conflict of Interest, and understand why this will not, and should not happen. Chaheel Riens (talk) 14:59, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi Chaheel Riens. What joke is he missing? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 22:00, 26 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi Gene ZEF. Thank you for the kind words. And congratulations on your fansite! I'm sorry about your experience here. Again, about why you had a hard time here: I believe what you wrote, but if it isn't supported by good sources, it can't be used. That is because this place is not about truth. It is about verifiability. When you are a personal friend of an article subject, you know facts you wish to add. The edits are reverted. It is frustrating because you know the truth. But, think of it from the perspective of, say, me and Cher. If I say I am a personal friend of Cher and want to add that she secretly collects people's used chewing gum, what would you think? You may believe me, but should it go into the article just on my word? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 22:00, 26 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Next time, take advice from people who know what they are talking about. Wikipedia isn't a fan page.  -Xcuref1endx (talk) 03:17, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
 * That is true, but could have been expressed more gently. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 04:40, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
 * More gently? Please! We've repeatedly tried to point out how to get simple changes made and how to deal with wikipedia articles simply by pointing to the various rules and policy pages, and making very basic suggestions. At some point when people either refuse to read that advice, or take blatant destructive actions, others will lose patience and respond as is appropriate and necessary to get those words heard. Centerone (talk) 19:32, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
 * This is the point of collapsing the text. So we don't waste any time on this nonsense. -Xcuref1endx (talk) 19:59, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

Page corrections
I personally know Anri du Toit (Yo-Landi Visser) She would like me to fix this page once and for all.

You guys are the masters here. I tried to repair the topic and couldnt do it. So I need a mentor(s) to help me correct the entire page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gene ZEF (talk • contribs) 02:05, 27 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi Gene. I'm here to help. Please tell me what I can do. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 07:30, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
 * As you know, we've repeatedly tried to point out and educate him on how to work with the community and wikipedia's rules and policies such as how to view articles about oneself or one's friends. I don't know why he has not understood these things in spite of him acknowledging what has been said.  I might recommend you help him with two key things: one, walk him through getting an appropriately free picture for this article submitted and added.  I think he tried before but it was possibly deleted from commons before all the permissions were done right. I think everybody agrees this article could benefit from a much better picture.  Secondly, he could probably benefit from understanding the need for reliable sources.  In particular simple facts like her birthday should be able to be reliably sourced.  Unfortunately the only seemingly reliable source seems to give a date that is different than the one Gene Zef mentions as the proper one.  Centerone (talk) 18:15, 27 May 2016 (UTC)


 * If she wants a better profile picture, she (or ZEF Records) should just release one on the official website (or even just Facebook/Instagram) under an appropriate Creative Commons license. Simply write "Released under https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/" under an image. Notify us when the image was released, we'll do the rest.
 * Same with birthday: Instead of weird edits, http://www.dieantwoord.com/ could just have a "Band bio" sub page. List the important info there, bam, done. --KAMiKAZOW (talk) 21:54, 27 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Indeed. Gene ZEF, it's pretty easy around here. Just add neutral content from reliable sources. The image, well, do as recommended above or upload one and email permission. Easy. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:10, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

Ok I fugured out how the links work now. I tried to upload and fix the film acting part of her profile today I had links and everything so that they worked when you clicked on them. But Cluebot NG removed them, I sent a report hopefully they let it go thru. I know i did it right because all the links work. ;)--Gene Zef2 (talk) 02:26, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
 * You do seem to be genuinely trying, but pretty much most if not all of the edits you've been making on the Die Antwoord related pages are going to wind up being reversed. You've removed code, you've removed cited and referenced information, you've added things where it doesn't need to be added, you've linked to things that we don't link to (like the facebook fan page) that has been previously removed in the past, and you've been removing other editor's comments and discussions, changed your own comments from a year ago, and changed the date so you remove the history and the issues that have already been discussed and pointed out. You say you've read things, or want us to explain things to you, but we have. Repeatedly.  Tried to.  And you've repeatedly made threats and blanked things in the past.  And as much as you seem to be trying, you seem to be continuing your bad habits.  You need to go read more pages on wikipedia policies and editing, reliable sources, verifiable information, etc.  Then make SIMPLE small changes and wait.  Then make the next. Please don't come in here like a steamroller. Centerone (talk) 00:57, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Partner / Former partner
"Not a former partner if the band hasn't broken up yet. They may be ex-bf/gf but that is not the same thing. Reference may be good elsewhere" The context here is romantic partner, not band partner. That's why the sentence is "Visser's former partner and current band mate" The context is:


 * "Former partner" - no longer romantic, hence in the past tense.
 * "Current band mate" - band hasn't broken up yet, ergo current tense.

Chaheel Riens (talk) 21:58, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

infobox photo
I tried changing it with a pic I thought would be considered to be a "fair usage" picture, it was reverted. I was successful in using a still frmae for the Watkin Jones account. I am assuming that if I can get a good still picture of YoLandi off a video I made, I can use that on this account too? and we can get rid of that picture currently in the infobox? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gene Zef2 (talk • contribs) 22:17, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Fair use cases are very difficult to make. Obviously it didn't take before.  If you are the actual camera person for that video, and weren't doing it as a work for hire, then you should be the legal owner to the copyright in that video.  As the copyright owner, you can release or assign the rights as is appropriate for wikimedia.  The photo you put on the Waddy article is very good, wasn't that your own work also?  If you can do something similar for a picture of her, then that should be fine. Just a note, you should also add the date of when the concert or event you shot was, because people tend to default to more recent photos when available, with a balance for appearance as related to the current appearance of the person.  So, the image will change in the future, but if your images are good, they should be here for a while. Centerone (talk) 01:58, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I reverted the image change here and here, not on fair usage grounds but just on suitability. The infobox is supposed to show the best possible image of the article subject, and two of the new suggestions just weren't as good as the existing one.  The suggestion that we just get rid of the current one without a better alternative needs clarifying - what exactly is wrong with the current image to warrant removing it without replacement?  Chaheel Riens (talk) 08:07, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Well the picture was taken from a still shot of a video I made at one concert, however Im not a photo editing typed of person so I asked a friend to make it black and white. I still dont see any issue with that, but I can try to get a hi res still of both of them. And not have anyone modify it at all just a good still of both of them performing. I am sure that will work if I release all right to wiki for that work?

And the reason for the change is a more professional picture to go with his account, same thing for YoLandi, her picture makes her look like a 14 year old kid. It doesnt really fit the types of things she is involved in.

I saw a admin locked the account, but none of my things was undone but the birth year, which I can understand. But how come the page was locked up?

--Gene Zef2 (talk) 22:17, 7 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Protection was requested - and granted - here, although tbh I'm not sure why it was felt a request was necessary - nor that protection was necessary. But hey ho, just my opinion.
 * With regard to the images, the existing image is the best option currently available. The black & white image is too small, and you can barely make out her face.  The rat image is of greater resolution, just too obscured to see who it is, or again any detail about her - such as her trademark hairstyle.  Chaheel Riens (talk) 22:28, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Just looking a bit deeper into this, and I have to say that I'm not sure much good faith was attributed here. Even Cluebot seems to be against you - this is a pretty rare false-positive by Cluebot on one of your edits.  Moreover Stellaseeker's claims are somewhat exaggerated - "Disruptively edited over the past 48 hours by one user, who in that time has made 40+ edits, including adding unsourced claims which have been previously reverted multiple times" - in fact only one of your edits was reverted - the year of birth, which you added including a reference, which was later dismissed as unreliable.  That should be taken as good faith, IMO.
 * In fact, I'm going to request un-protection of the page. I don't think it was warranted.  Chaheel Riens (talk) 09:20, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

I dont feel as if everyone is against me fixing the page, and for awhile i did not understand how wiki wanted things, but every edit I have been doing has been in the best intrest of fixing the page. I search for REFS and if they are not good enough I understand that too, but just to lock the page because someone doesnt like my edits? I think thats just immature. Nothing I have done has damaged the page. In fact I personally think I have improved it. Wiki only had one of her five movies listed. As far as the links to individual songs The only ones I put was the ones for the songs that someone listed individually. The other albums should not have had their REFs removed, they was legit and took you straight to the mentioned album, without just straight promoting the group, which I know is frowned upon on wiki. I am only trying to list the accomplishments of the band and more to the point to the individual members.

--Gene Zef2 (talk) 17:28, 8 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Protection has been removed. I agree that your edits have been all in good faith (note that a good faith edit does not also equate to a good edit!) and suggest that you take the opportunity to observe why some of your edits were reverted, and use that hindsight to further improve the page.  For example - Youtube and Facebook are usually not considered reliable sources.  There are exceptions, but not many.  They fall under the heading of "user generated content", rather than "peer reviewed content".  Have a look at this article to help out with what is - and isn't - a reliable source.
 * I'd also suggest that this discussion is forked - if you have any further questions or queries about the act of editing on Wikipedia, that these are taken to a talk page - probably best your own - and we limit discussion on this page to the actual article itself - Yolandi Visser. Chaheel Riens (talk) 17:54, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

That is true a good faith edit dosent mean a good edit. After studying other wiki pages I can kinda see how it needs to be done. Im working on reliable sources for some of the info. I appreciate all the encouragement and those of you guys trying to make sure the page is correct.

I have another pic I would like to submit for Yolandi's pic.

Found here.

https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/19/44/03/05/yo-lan10.jpg

I dont see any issues with it. I searched the internet and cant find anyone that has the same picture. So I assume I can at least try?

Let me know on my page if you see a problem with it. :)

--Gene Zef2 (talk) 20:28, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Too low resolution, over-exposed, not enough detail. What's the copyright status of this image?
 * The image captures the essence of Die Antwoord, and to an extent of Visser herself - but that's not what the infobox image is for. The infobox image is to be the best representation of the subject of the article - and in that respect there still isnt' a better candidate than the existing one.  Chaheel Riens (talk) 22:45, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

I will try to find one that is a sharp image then. :)

--Gene Zef2 (talk) 23:49, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, now the image you uploaded of Ninja was deleted on copyright grounds on the claim that it was a copyright violation. So, was it your original work or not?  When you say things like the above, it makes me think that perhaps the photos you're attempting to upload aren't your original work.  If you have all these photos of Die Antwoord that you have taken yourself, it shouldn't be this difficult to prepare them for upload and submission. Centerone (talk) 03:55, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

I suppose I will just have to make a video of me making a picture from a video I shot, that way no one can say its not my own. Copnsider this, when you google image most pictures of someone famous, you will find some simuliar pictures, that doesnt mean that they are the exact picture that staff thinks is copy written. Its all a matter of judgement, and from what I have seen, you and one a couple other admins on wiki have any sense of good judement at all.

Personally I think there are way to many Admins on a power trip, I wonder how much wiki pays them for being a admin..... Nothing? Yea, power trippin'.

--Gene Zef2 (talk) 17:42, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

I changed the info box phot with one I took from another video that I made. I challenge anyone to find it on the internet. I made a video of me making the picture. So I know I hold the rights to the picture. I release those rights to Wikipedia for the purpose of using it as a discriptive picture of Yo-Landi Visser.

--Gene Zef2 (talk) 19:24, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I can tell you now that the photo you posted of Yolandi is going to get reverted. It's just very low resolution, vignetted, out of focus, etc. As bad as the previous photo was, it's high resolution and in focus. You previously said you hung out with them, do you not have any simple point and shoot shots you took while hanging out? Centerone (talk) 22:38, 17 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Reverted the change of photo for the reason listed above, it is a significantly lower quality image compared to the one originally in place. Additionally, the descriptions placed on the videos are not suitable on a Wiki page as per WP:NOTSTATSBOOK. We are all for you contributing to the article Gene, however it needs to be improving it and withing wikipedia's Manual of Style guidelines.  —   IVORK  Discuss 01:52, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Well this one I took myself and I can prove it by walking out my front door and taking another picture of my neighborhood, but as usual wiki wont let me upload it.

https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/19/44/03/05/da_mas10.jpg

So Im looking for other pictures I took of her.

--Gene Zef2 (talk) 23:49, 18 March 2017 (UTC)


 * At this point the problem isn't the rights behind the image, it is that the image actually needs to be an improvement over what is currently in the article i.e. still have the same or better quality, nothing covering her face, preferably with eye contact etc —   IVORK  Discuss 04:46, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Recent edits
I have reverted back - again - because the fundamental issues with the previous edits have not been addressed:


 * 1) Despite saying it's been done, the birthdate has not been removed from the article.  A cursory glance through the article history and this talk page show that Visser's birthdate is a contentious issue at best.
 * 2) This article is primarily about the performer Yolandi Visser, not the person behind the stage persona - DuToit.  It is standard practice to refer to an artist by their stage name, or WP:COMMONNAME throughout an article:  Lady Gaga, Meat Loaf, and André 3000 are but three examples.
 * 3) Other changes made go contrary to the article - the article claims that since 2011 they have used their own label ZEFrecordz rather than Interscope.

Please discuss here, rather than reverting constantly. As per BLP guidelines adding unsourced material is considered disruptive behaviour. Chaheel Riens (talk) 10:21, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Let's ignore the birth date then. Du Toit has a life in music before Die Antwoord even if it is not super notable. I'm sure you are well aware that Ninja's page is Watkin Tudor Jones. Should I go ahead and change that to Ninja (rapper)? Not even Ninja or Yolandi ever discuss "ZEFrecordz". In the music world, this is called a vanity label. That means Interscope owns it and does the distribution. It's just got a pretty name to fit the theme of the group. What do you think? Also, please read my post on this talk page as I'm sure you would find it very interesting. Inoffensivenewusername (talk) 03:40, 30 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Yeah, there's a discrepancy over Ninja's page. I would support a change from "Watkin Tudor-Jones" to "Ninja (rapper)"  It doesn't matter whether it's a vanity label or not, what matters is what's printed or marked on the distribution, and in this case it's ZEFrecordz.  Vanity labels are incredibly common - many artists like to give the impression that they're independent, not part of a mass corporation, so they have a satellite label run by a larger label.  However, we still flatter them, as that's what they're listed as.  The point is, you can't list in the infobox that they're signed to label "A", then say in the article that they created their own label "B" and released later music through that - it's confusing, and doesn't make sense.
 * Read and replied to your other topic: WP:COMMONNAME.  Chaheel Riens (talk) 07:18, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Her real name and intro paragraph
Yolandi Visser's real name is Anri du Toit. She, much like her musical partner Watkin Tudor Jones, has not legally changed her name. As it stands, the article begins with (and excuse my ignorance if this is hard to read):


 * YoLandi Visser (stylized as ¥O-LANDI VI$$ER,) born Anri du Toit[1] is an actress and the female vocalist in the South African electronic group Die Antwoord. Visser appeared in the 2015 film Chappie. Visser also co-starred in Umshini Wam and Tokoloshe: all three films co-starred bandmate Watkin Tudor Jones. Under her birth name, Visser made two short films, Family Picnic and Spook Asem.

Firstly, her name is Anri du Toit. Why this is in italics is beyond me. Furthermore, it should be where "YoLandi Visser [sic]" currently is at the very beginning. The tacky stylized bit seems arbitrary as she does not exclusively go by "¥O-LANDI VI$$ER". "Yolandi Visser" is her pseudonym. Multiple sources indicate that she was born in 1984, though the date is not confirmed. Therefore, it should say "(born 1984"). The next issue with this sentence is that her body of work to the public lies mainly in MUSIC, not FILM. She and Waddy made a few short films together and she was in Chappie as her own character (Yolandi), literally basing herself on her image in Die Antwoord. Therefore, Yolandi is a musician (or "female vocalist" if it should be put that way) before she is an actress... I also don't believe the follow-up sentence should be there regarding the short films as besides all but Umshini Wam (Harmony Korine's film), they are relatively unknown projects and fail to even meet guidelines for their own wiki pages, but I'd like to hear other opinions.

I have tried multiple times to fix this but my edits keep getting reverted. It does not take an expert Wikipedian to acknowledge the basics of wiki formatting. This is only the first paragraph of this messy article.

Someone please weigh in. Thank you. Inoffensivenewusername (talk) 03:30, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
 * There is an entire Wikipedia policy surrounding this: WP:COMMONNAME.  She is famous and known under the name Yolandi Visser, and I tried to explain this in the above section, please read it to understand.  Moreover, her fame in the public eye - that is outside of South Africa - comes from Chappie.  Prior to Chappie very few people outside SA will have heard of her.  They may now know of Die Antwoord, but most likely will have come to it via her film appearance.
 * Finally her birth year. A look through the article history and talk page shows that this has not been confirmed, and that she has denied the year herself.  As such, it cannot be included. Chaheel Riens (talk) 07:09, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Just a comment regarding Ivork's recent edit note. He wrote: "This is about Yolandi Visser, not the person behind the persona." Uhm, no. this article is about the person and all her work, in the same way the article about Waddy is about him and all his work, not just the persona.  The key difference with which name we use is that Yolandi didn't keep changing her stage name or release music under her birth name, as far as I am aware.  So, we use her stage name in the article.  That doesn't mean that the article is ONLY about the persona. Centerone (talk) 17:36, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

The name needs to stay the way it is, as far as the birth year.... I tried linking wiki admins to the post on her instagram that she says she was born in 1984 herself, but nothing got dont about it.22:00, 18 May 2017 (UTC)Gene Zef2 (talk) GeneZEF


 * Self published sources aren't able to be used as reliable ones in most situations. Anyone can post to say they are born in whatever year. It doesn't necesarily make it valid. —   IVORK  Discuss 00:46, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
 * , as per WP:SELFPUB, self-published sources may be (and frequently are) used as sources about the subject. That is John Doe's personal web page may be used as a source for Doe's opinions, and for reasonably unconroversial facts about Doe, such as his date and place of birth, family, etc, unless there is some actual reason to think that Doe is lying or incorrect, or perhaps has made inconsistent public statements about these things.
 * Also note that as per WP:DOB full exact dates of birth should not be included for living people unless either the person has published it himself or allowed its publication (as by placing it on a personal or official website, or by providing it in an interview, etc; OR it has been widely published by reliable sources. If in doubt, leave it out. DES (talk) 01:50, 23 May 2017 (UTC)


 * The name has been fixed. as to the birth year, see WP:RSN. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 22:44, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

Please stop adding unsourced information
Please only add information if you have a reliable source to back it up. That especially goes for date of birth and place of birth, neither of which seem to have any reliable sources whatsoever. Visser is adopted - she feasibly could have been born anywhere in South Africa. Stellaseeker (talk) 10:13, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

I can't believe the mess that has been made of Yo Landis page since I last saw it. What happened to all the info that was there. Much of it I contributed myself?

Was there some type of "borg" war here, did i miss it? Gene Zef2

Redirect.
It seems to me that this article is notable. As pointed out it survived an AfD, and Visser herself is a notable actress - Chappie brought her to worldwide attention, certainly attention outside South Africa. Sources and references could be improved certainly, but it's not a redirect - and certainly not one to be done twice after reversion without so much as a by-your-leave in the meantime. Chaheel Riens (talk) 09:01, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

Agreed. Thank you, Chaheel Riens. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 09:28, 15 December 2017 (UTC)