Talk:Yonsei University/Archive 1

Edit war?
I don't know how "SKY" comes from. Is it Seoul, Korea and Yonsei universities?

Maybe, KU trying to boost his name by using the romancing term of SKY. Yonsei students never use the term SKY by indicating himself as the top universities in Korea. Yonsei pride himself. Although they are number 2, they work hard to cope with SNU.

What I find is KU student continually trying to use the term SKY. Shame on KU. It's because KU lacks the pride herself and hang herself the old Fame in 50s and 60s. In fact, KU is number 6th nowadays, followed by SNU, Yonsei, KAIST, Postech, and SKK in order.

@@@@@@@@@@@ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.117.212.253 (talk) 07:55, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Why do people keep deleting comments about Yonsei being one of the best in Korea? If it's someone from Korea University, I'd like it if you would take your rivalry some place else. --KJ 13:19, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * And the same goes for people from Yonsei too. Please don't vandalize the Korea University article. --KJ 03:22, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Yonsei Univ. and Korea Univ. are both top universities in Korea. They are both the prides of Korea.

Cmon folks, wikipedia isn't the place for school pride. Both Yonsei and KU has some serious history and separately unique academic culture. Can somebody write about this? How about a Yonsei-KU rivalry on who has a better wikipedia page, because so far they are both hurting (although Yonsei's got the advantage with a section on some history). I'd really like to learn more about these schools than "this school is awesome, you'd better recognize.". Taco325i 00:38, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Look up Harvard, MIT, or Caltech. Although they are more widely perceived as being extremely exclusive, articles on them do not start with their being one of the best... this is wikipedia, so let's try to make it look more like an article on it. so i moved yonsei "being the best" to its reputations section. fair enough? :) Sulrim 16:39, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

protests
Perhaps someone more knowledgable on the subject could add something about the 1988 and 1998 protests. Kellen T 20:55, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

history
i'm working on the history section and i wonder if it is becoming too long... maybe i should create yonsei history section separately or push the history part further back in the bottom. any ideas? Thinkinglex 17:29, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

the MOST prestigious?
Can we say that Yonsei is THE MOST prestigious private university in Korea? I mean there's the obvious rival Korea university and I believe PosTech is also private. You must provide some material that backs up this bold assertion, before writing it down as if it is fact. IMHO, I don't think Yonsei being the most prestigious should be at the beginning of this article. It doesn't really relate to what Yonsei really is; Yonsei being a Christian school is should be up there first. I must say, all this "prestige" that Koreans persistently attrbute to their universities is really quite embarrassing. Let the facts speak for themselves. This isn't a good place for advertisement. Thinkinglex 10:32, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I second that. Epthorn 20:58, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

The boosterism from various anonymous IP editors is just amazing. I have to agree that this is quite embarrassing. The only thing that this article has that's close to "good" is its history section. --BirdKr (talk) 22:58, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

A friend of mine went to Yonsei to study International Relations. His first paper was "American Culture". There were 18 lectures. Five of the lectures were cancelled. Three of the remaining lectures consisted of watching a movie. The remaining 10 were not much good, according to him. So he left. This is typical for Korea - students do all their hard work and study at school. Nobody is given a failing grade at university. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.240.61.2 (talk) 23:59, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Sir, is an anecdote from your friend a verifiable source for Wikipedia? I have had a similar experience as a Korean graduate student in US school too. But I would not generalize such experience as I have had a lot of high-quality lectures in America too. And for your information, in my 5-years experience in Yonsei University Public Affairs Department, at least 10 studunts got failed and got kicked out of the program. Hkwon (talk) 08:29, 21 September 2009 (UTC)


 * No, the comment wasn't made in the context of being used as a source for the article. It was a comment made in response to the others above it relating to "boosterism" and embarrassing instances of Korean Pride damaging articles.


 * Since I have recently come across this article, I have no idea what kind of boosterism had damaged it. But your statements such as "This is typical for Korea...Nobody is given a failing grade at university." whether or not it is used for a source for article and "embarrassing instances of Korean Pride damaging articles" when you cannot even verify the alleged boosters are in fact Koreans seems to me as unfounded disparagement of the nation and the school. And I'd appreciate it if you could sign your posts and identify yourself according to Signatures Hkwon (talk) 02:04, 30 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Talks of boosterism aside, I think instead of continuing this fruitles(and probably endless) debate on which univ is more prestigious(a very subjective matter) we might want to focus on solid facts... say, how Yonsei is the best endowned university in Korea (yes, more than even SNU). I'll bring up the figures if anyone's interested. Tkwon —Preceding undated comment added 17:42, 24 December 2009 (UTC).

Reputation questionable
Yonsei University set up Underwood International College('UIC'). UIC have a four-year program of all-English-language classes. By providing generous scholarships and high pay, the UIC has attracted top students and faculty members from around the world, making it an academic landmark in Asia.

Although the user has given a general citation of Asian universities in general, the user has not given the specific citation for UIC nor the claim that "it has attracted top students and faculty members from around the world, making it an academic landmark"

I'll try to be a bit conservative until there's actually specific citations for it. At the moment, I'm reading it as some sort of boosterism. --BirdKr (talk) 01:53, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Just I quote that passage from the article of Newsweek International.Tee2008 (talk) 09:04, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Citation seems solid, thanks for that link. I didn't think that quote to be actually a title, but more of a statement that was part of that article --BirdKr (talk) 09:52, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

The use of footnotes
Footnotes seems to be prevalent in trying verify or cite claims in this article. However, simply adding another claim/statement in footnotes does not verify or cite the claims or statements that require references or footnotes. Example is from editor User:Exucmember who added a footnote to Yonsei University article:

''Many consider Yonsei University to be in the number two spot, above Korea University. Nevertheless, a clever acronym invented in recent years that subtly implies Korea University should have that honor is the English word "SKY", which has the first three letters of each of the top three schools, but in an order than favors Korea University over Yonsei''

This is NOT a proper footnote nor is it even a reference. According to Citing Sources, a footnote is:

''A footnote is a note placed in the proper end section of a page to comment on a part of the main text, or to provide a reference (a source) for it. Footnotes are often used to add information that might be helpful to later fact-checkers, such as a quotation that supports your edit.''

Wikipedia is not a book where writers/editors can freely add footnotes that is more of additional information than that of a citation/source/authoritative explanation. It's okay to use footnotes to insert comments, but when that comment itself seems to violate Wikipedia's policy/guidelines or require reference/footnotes of its own, we have a problem.

The problem with Exucmember's footnote is that it itself calls for a reference/source or again another footnote. The reader has nowhere to fact-check or verify the original statement and is in the same situation when trying to verify the footnote. Not to mention it reeks of NPOV and original research (who says it's an "invented clever acronym"? who says the ordering of the letters "imply" favorites?).

--BirdKr (talk) 18:45, 12 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Furthermore, WHO CARES if the acronym implies Yonsei is number two or number three? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.143.76.26 (talk) 01:17, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Organisation removed (for the moment)
I removed the following information, because such a structure is unacceptable in a Wikipedia article -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 22:54, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know whose brilliant idea was to insert every major.. wouldn't the following be acceptable? i will put this back and see what happens! 165.132.159.243 (talk) 07:33, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Proposal regarding a new section
I came to this page to find out some specific information about Yonsei which is not included in the article. Specifically, I'd like to know more about the admissions process. How do students gain entry? This is important in Korea, because universities are "ranked" from 1 to 50, with Seoul National University at number 1, and the universities tend to have very arcane entry procedures.

My understanding is that Yonsei is a Christian university. Does one have to be a Christian to gain entry (I'm an atheist)? Is there an admissions test? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.143.76.26 (talk) 01:21, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, the college admission procedures in South Korea changes frequently. As of 2009, the qualification is determined by high school GPA, standardized test score, and college-specific writing test score. You don't have to be a Christian to be admitted. But you will need to attend weekly chapel hour in your first semester as a freshman and one Christianity-related (protestantism to be exact) class as a required course (As of 1994-1999). They will strictly check your chapel hour attendance and flunk you if you don't meet attendance requirements. Hkwon (talk) 04:42, 21 September 2009 (UTC)


 * That's interesting and useful information. Is there any way you could reference it and add it to the article?


 * I added a new section describing the information to the main article. Hope that can answer your questions. Since it was more than 10 years ago, my memory as a student in Yonsei University might not be very accurate. But I think I only needed to attend chapel hours for two semesters as a freshman (1994-1995). Because I has been an atheist, I refused to join public prayers at the time (by not standing up, not closing my eyes, and not saying prayers, although they might not mean much). If I'd had established as solid opinions about religions at the time as now, I would not have entered a mission school like Yonsei University. But I still have pretty good memories about the chapel hours and the christianity class, as they were good lectures and taught me a lot about christian philosphies. Hkwon (talk) 17:26, 27 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Attending Chapel hours are considered a separate form of credit. Hence, it's not like the school spies on you to make sure you attend X hours of chapel. That said, I second the motion to add an "admissions" section in the Yonsei page. Most other universities (especially top unis) have such info, albeit brief, in their respective WP pages. I'll try to draft one up since I have gone through the admissions process this very year (however, as a foreign returnee, so I'll have to get some help/references for the "normal" admission process for domestic Koreans) Tkwon —Preceding undated comment added 17:34, 24 December 2009 (UTC).


 * According to my experience as a Yonsei alumus, it was true that the school checked the attendance rate very carefully at chapel classes, if not "spying on students." There was a certain seat designated for everyone, and if the seat is empty, you are absent. If we could not attend the chapel class because of other urgent matters, we would ask a friend to sit there. I've seen at least several students expelled from the school because of chapel attendance in my days. I don't know how much the rule changed these days, but from what I heard from young friends at Yonsei, the custom has not changed much these days. If you flunk chapel classes, you will be kicked out of the school.Hkwon (talk) 07:58, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Highly selective in the lead
The phrase "highly selective" and "prestigious" has no place in the article, least of all in the opening sentence of the lead, which is why I have removed it. It is a weasel phrase and peacock term that conveys no actual meaning than to serve as boosterism for the institution. Furthermore, no institution or publication classifies colleges as "highly" selective, so it's not even verifiable. Assert facts, not opinions and just describe the admissions numbers (number of applicants, number admitted, number matriculated, and freshmen retention) in the body of article and don't tell the reader what to think. Madcoverboy (talk) 18:29, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Yon Ko Jeon / Ko Yon Jeon
The article contains the following assertion: If hosting is the determining factor, isn't the assertion in this sentence backwards? Wouldn't it be called 연고전 when at Yonsei and 고연전 when at Korea U? And is even this accurate? I thought Yonsei students always called it 연고전 and Korea U students always called it 고연전. I never heard any Yonsei student call it 고연전. And I can't find anything in the reference provided that directly supports the assertion. (Note that the author of the referenced article, though unaffiliated, calls it 연고전 throughout, apparently following the Yonsei format.) If we don't have a reference that explicitly explains the two terms, perhaps we can say something like: Much better would be to have a reference (even one in Korean) clearly explaining the variation in usage. -Exucmember (talk) 05:41, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
 * "This event...is called Yon Ko Jeon (연고전; 延高戰) in the years when Korea University hosts the matches, and called Ko Yon Jeon (고연전; 高延戰) when Yonsei University hosts the matches."
 * "Some supporters call it 'Yon Ko Jeon' (연고전; 延高戰), putting Yonsei University first, while others prefer 'Ko Yon Jeon' (고연전; 高延戰), referencing Korea University first."


 * English translation of third paragraph of the referenced article: "...Either to call the event 'Yon Ko Jeon' or 'Ko Yon Jeon' had been a controversy because of the school spirits of two universities. As a result, the two schools have agreed that the hosting school of the matches (home team) allow to call the event starting with the first Korean letter of the other school's (visiting team's) name. Since the event is hosted by Korea University this year, it is officially called 'Yon Ko Jeon'. It is similar to the tradition that home team players wear white uniforms while visiting team players wear uniforms of their team color in sports matches. The author of the referenced My Daily article keeps calling the event 'Yon Ko Jeon' because that is the offical title of the event in that particular year. Many students and alumni of the two schools call the event starting with the first Korean letter of their school name as a expression of their school spirit, regardless of host of the event. It might be informative to add this explanation to the section if anyone can find a reliable source. But the offcial naming rule of the event is as explained in the current version of the section. Hkwon (talk) 19:40, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the clarification. This resolution took place since I was there, and I hadn't heard about it. Also, Korean is not my first language, and I couldn't really "get" the third paragraph when I read it (quickly) before. So, thanks again. -Exucmember (talk) 06:48, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

The section "Rankings and Reputations" and 119.192.164.25
I found that an anonymous user 119.192.164.25 kept deleting the section "Rankings and Reputations" and ranking information from the lead paragraphs, despite that all information is verifiable and based on reliable sources. The deletion was done without any reason and without any comments in the discussion section. I don't know anything about this user except that he/she keeps adding links to "Korea University" whenever the name of that university is mentioned in the article, and that the user never signs in, not revealing his/her identity. If anyone does not believe me, please check the article history. 119.192.164.25 did this three times. If any deletion or fabrication happens to this section again without a consensus and a counter-evidence, by 119.192.164.25 or anyone else, I will request for administrator intervention for vandalism. Hkwon (talk) 11:55, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The article was vandalized again by another anonymous user. I requested for a semi-protection. Hkwon (talk) 10:22, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The third time that I found the same unfounded deletion. I will right away apply for semi-protection according to Wikipedia standards.Hkwon (talk) 09:28, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

The section "Rankings and Reputations"
"In 2009, Yonsei University was ranked 151st overall - up from 203rd in 2008 - and 79th in Arts and Humanities in the world [3][4][5], one of the two most prominent world university rankings along with Academic Ranking of World Universities compiled by Shanghai Jiao Tong University" is not very clear. Is "Arts and Humanities" an organization or an organization's ranking of schools? Or is it "Arts and Humanities in the World"? Kdammers (talk) 11:47, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I updated the section "Rankings and Reputation" including the new 2011 info from QS World University Ranking. Hope this clears any ambiguity.Hkwon (talk) 14:35, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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Links
There were a change in Yonsei Portal, so the links should be changed. College of Social Sciences link: http://socsci.yonsei.ac.kr/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alice in home (talk • contribs) 07:58, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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