Talk:York University/Archive 2

Explanation of deletion required
Could those editors involed with the removal of larger content pls provided reasoning for the deletion of the text. Clearly some is referenced. Pls see WP:V/RMV...Thank you all Moxy (talk) 03:26, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I deleted part of it due to lack of references. Intoronto1125 (talk) 04:04, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Are you sure you did what you wanted to do - lots HERE looks referenced? Are you saying you dislike the references? Or do you think the section is over weighted? Moxy (talk) 04:12, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Well considering this is an article on a University and that part takes up almost a quater of it, I find it way over weighted. Intoronto1125 (talk) 04:14, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Though i would help you along there :-). Ok lets talk - agree the section is huge.. cant split it as that would be a Content forking if it was all by its self...So i put a copy of the section at User:Moxy/sandbox - y dont we go over the section  Striking out  what can go and is unsourced. Then we will simply deleted the section in the article and add what we have left into the other sections  by dates and appropriateness if the section gets so small we can do without it. What do you think?Moxy (talk) 04:24, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Sure thing, middle of studying though so later. Intoronto1125 (talk) 05:02, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
 * lol too good. I suggest a new page. There's more than enough. Outback the koala (talk) 05:05, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Proposed balance

 * Bellow is what 2 editors feel can be omitted - due to overweight and/or unsourced and/or old and un-relevant to the article as time has passed.Moxy (talk) 00:28, 15 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I disagree. This section properly documents (from mainstream sources, not, as the above editors claim, from "unsourced") several instances in which pro-Israel and conservative groups were effectively denied their right to freedom of speechby the York' administration and, more importantly documents anti-Israel activists using intimidation and violence to silence those who hold different views. These are certainly notable events at one of Canada's most prominent universities. To say such incidences are not relevant at an institution, which is supposed (in theory) to be a bastion of free speech and tolerance, is a rather dubious perspective. (Hyperionsteel (talk) 21:58, 15 March 2011 (UTC))


 * So you believe that this is properly weighted for the article? Out of all the things that have happened at the University you believe that this incendent should take up 3/4 of the article? Have you seen WP:UNDUE. I see by your edit history that "Israel " is a topic of great interest to you are you sure you looking at this neutrally? Moxy (talk) 00:04, 16 March 2011 (UTC)


 * You stated in your rational for removing this material that it is "un-relevant", which I disagree with, and b) unsourced, which is simply not the case (as most (albeit not all) of the material is taken from mainstream media outlets). Now, there may be an argument that it this section is too large, but I did not dispute this in my response. My point was that the use of intimidation and violence to silence opposing views on a University campus (especially when it is reported on extensively in National news outlets) is notable and relevant and that your logic for removing this section entirely is questionable at best. (And yes, Israel is a topic of great interest to me.) (Hyperionsteel (talk) 05:10, 18 March 2011 (UTC))


 * So you agree its way to big for how important this topic was --   i say we remove it as it to much info about one small topic. I say we remove the  grade 2 additions that are clearly  not informative to our readers> looks like the section is there  because someone has a   problem with the school. Again as per  WP:UNDUE will be removing section in a week or so.Moxy (talk) 21:35, 21 March 2011 (UTC)


 * If you want to reduce the size of this section, I'll consider your proposals. If I feel you have removed too much, I may reinstate portions. Whether or not a mob (led by the head of the Students Union) threatening Jewish students (in an incident which sparked national media coverage) is a "small topic" is obviously a point we disagree on - but I'll leave that aside for the time being to see how you restructure this section. (and for the record, I have never attended or even visited York University, and I don not have "a problem with the school.")(Hyperionsteel (talk) 21:48, 21 March 2011 (UTC))
 * I am going to redo the section - but we have no reason to let it sit there as per WP:UNDUE - will go over it and add a sentance or 2 about it. I can only use so much as only o many refs are good (as in working and neutral) Moxy (talk) 21:50, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

For the time being, I've placed a much reduced version of this section in the article. Regarding undue weight, I noticed that the "Violation of Academic Freedom" section, which deals entirely with the controversy surrounding a single conference, has remained unchanged. If this event is considered important enough to have its own section, why not the intimidation of Jewish students by a hostile mob?(Hyperionsteel (talk) 22:07, 21 March 2011 (UTC))
 * What you did looks prety good actualy- still a bit long but so are the other sections like this that you have mentioned - good job!Moxy (talk) 00:39, 22 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Controversies



A tradition of activist politics on campus has resulted in vocal demonstrations, particularly concerning issues relating to the Middle East and economic globalization. There have been criticisms of both activist groups by the administration and media, for disrupting classes and provoking confrontations between students, and of the university administration for its response to demonstrators and activists, including expulsion and alleged police misconduct against activists.

As well, a controversy arose in 2005 regarding the sale of university land for a nearby townhouse development, and whether the developer, Tribute Communities, paid the full market price for the land. York University maintained that it was the best overall proposal. An independent investigation conducted by retired judge Edward Saunders verified that there had been no misconduct.

In October 2005, Professor David F. Noble, in opposition to York's practice of cancelling classes on the Jewish High Holidays, which originated in 1974 in deference to the university's large proportion of Jewish students and faculty members at that time, applied to the university's senate body for review of the policy. Upon the York senate's affirmation of the policy, he pledged that he would teach on those days anyway, but later decided instead to poll students in his courses, asking if they wished future classes to be cancelled out of respect for other religious holidays.

referenced but now out of palace --> On March 31, 2006, in the case of Freeman-Maloy v. Marsden, the Court of Appeal for Ontario ruled that the university and its president, Lorna Marsden, could be sued by plaintiff Daniel Freeman-Maloy for "misfeasance in public office."

In the aftermath of an academic conference that took place in 2009, titled "Israel/Palestine: Mapping Models of Statehood and Paths to Peace", which explored the possible models of statehood for Israel/Palestine, including the one state model, concerns were raised about the way the York Administration has handled the political pressure. Some of the organizers accused the York administration, mainly the then Dean of the Osgoode Hall Law School and the Associate Vice President for Research and Innovation, of putting undue pressure on the organizers in order to force them to change the content of the conference, invite or disinvite some speakers. The accusations were supported by documents and emails that were obtained through the Freedom of Information and Privacy Protection Act.
 * Violation of academic freedom

The York administration appointed former Supreme Court of Canada Judge to review the issue, but the Iacobucci Review was problematic, and the terms of reference for the review were seen as an attack on academic freedom. The whole issue is being investigated by the Canadian Association of University Teachers.

In response to the allegations made, a University spokesperson said that the University should be judged the fact that event took place despite the pressure not to hold it, and that there is always internal discussion as part of the planning of all events. He added that "In the end, this conference did go on and we do not feel that academic freedom was breached." Vice President and Provost, Patrick Monahan, said, about these allegation that "Justice Iacobucci has looked at that and he doesn’t see any purpose in conducting further inquiries. Obviously there are a lot of different views about it.” Yet, it seems that the Iaccobucci Report is seen by many faculty members at Osgoode as controversial. In a letter from the Osgoode Hall Faculty Association, the Association said that it "considers the Iacobucci Report to be unsound and unreliable." The Association also said that "the Report both jeopardizes academic freedom and fails to consider the troubling conduct of the York officials."

York University has a history of faculty and teaching assistant strikes. In 1997, there was a faculty strike by YUFA that lasted seven weeks. At the time, this was the second longest strike in Canadian University history. Key issues in the strike included retirement, funding, and institutional governance. In 2001, teaching assistants and contract faculty went on strike for 11 weeks, when the university broke its own record. The central issue in the 2001 disruption was the administration's proposed attempts to remove tuition indexation language.
 * Strikes

A strike beginning on November 6, 2008 concerned a variety of institutional grievances, including job security for contract professors, elimination of the Non-Academic Student Code of Conduct, creation of whistleblower protection, and fund indexation. On January 20, 2009, CUPE 3903 defeated a forced ratification vote that would have ended the strike. On January 24, Ontario premier Dalton McGuinty announced a rare Sunday recall of the provincial legislature in order to pass back-to-work legislation mandating an immediate end to the strike. On January 29, the York University Labour Disputes Resolution Act was passed in the provincial parliament on a count of 42–8 ending the long 85-day strike and setting a precedent for future university strikes in Ontario.


 * Alleged discrimination against pro-Israel groups
 * Whole section can go its about "Alleged" discrimination that is old and does not have a conclusion - let alone its noit a defining moment or indecent in the Universities history. This is a tit for tat section that does not look like an encyclopedia type entry.Moxy (talk) 00:28, 15 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 2009

On February 11, 2009, approximately 100 pro-Palestinian students reportedly initiated a near-riot against a group of Jewish students during a news conference where speakers called for the impeachment of the York Federation of Students (YFS) executive. According to witnesses, the demonstrators, which reportedly consisted of members of the YFS and Students Against Israeli Apartheid (SAIA), shouted “Zionism equals racism!” and “Racists off campus!” One witness stated that “a riot broke out. They [YFS supporters] started banging the door and windows, intimidating Jewish students and screaming antisemitic slurs.” The students barricaded themselves inside the Hillel offices, where protesters reportedly banged on the windows and attempted to force their way in. Eventually police were called to escort Jewish students through the protesters.

Krisna Saravanamuttu, York Federation of Students' vice-president of equity, who took part in the protest, denied that the protesters shouted anti-semitic slogans, stating that "That is categorically false. I heard nothing of that nature at all." He did however, confirm that the protesters shouted "racism off campus" and "students united will never be defeated."

In May 2009, York adjudicator Janet Mosher, who is an associate dean at York’s Osgoode Hall Law School, ruled that two York students, Krisna Saravanamuttu and Jesse Zimmerman, had violated the Student Code of Conduct due to their behaviour at the protest, which she described as “exclusionary and offensive” and which promoted an atmosphere of “hostility, incivility and intimidation.” Mosher noted that both students participated in the protest which pursued a group of Jewish students to Hillel’s lounge in York’s Student Centre, and swarmed outside shouting taunts. On a video of the incident, Saravanamuttu was shown clapping and apparently leading a chant of “Whose campus? Our campus!” as well as participating in a chant of “Racists off campus." Saravanamuttu was fined $150 and both he and Zimmerman were given an official reprimand and human rights training. Jewish groups applauded the ruling and called for Saravanamuttu to resign as president of the York Federation of Students (YFS).   Saravanamuttu refused to resign and served his full term as YFS President.

Saravanamuttu later defended his conduct, stating that "I decided to stand up against racism and I think it's absurd that I was fined by the University for saying 'racists off campus.'" subsequently received financial and moral support from the York University Black Students Alliance, whose President, Odion Osegyefo, stated "We are not going to stand by while a member of our community is fined for standing up against racism. When members of our community stand up against racism, we stand beside them."

In February 2010, the campus group the Christians United for Israel (CUFI) and My Canada applied to use university space to host the Imagine With Us coalition event consisting of pro-Israel speakers. The University replied that the event could only proceed under certain conditions (which ultimately led to the event's cancellation when the organizers declined to comply with the terms):
 * 2010
 * the organizers would be required to pay for security, including both campus and Toronto police;
 * the organizers must provide an advance list of all program attendees and advance minute-by-minute summaries of all the speeches; and
 * No advertising for the program would be permitted on campus.

These conditions drew criticism because they were not imposed on the organizers of Israel Apartheid Week which was being held on campus the same month. In response, Rob Kilfoyle, director of security at York, told the Jewish Tribune that it insisted on the more stringent requirements on pro-Israel groups “due to the participation of individuals who they claim invite the animus of anti-Israel campus agitators.” When asked why similar demands were not made of the organizers of Israel Apartheid Week events, Kilfoyle stated that even though the organizers of those events will not be paying for their own security, university personnel will be present “to monitor the activities.”

Criticism

York's decision drew sharp criticism from David Frum who wrote in the National Post that "Since the anti-Israel people might use violence, the speech of the pro-Israel people must be limited. On the other hand, since the pro-Israel people do not use violence, the speech of the anti-Israel people can proceed without restraint." A York University spokesman subsequently told Frum that "all student groups that request university space" must meet "precisely same requirements" but that while the “process” and the “protocols” that were the same, a “needs-based assessment” of each particular case is necessary. Frum subsequently criticized the "utterly arbitrary ad hoc decision-making of a fathomlessly cowardly university administration." Frank Dimant, CEO of B'nai Brith Canada also sharply criticized York's justification, arguing that "York’s continued appeasement of anti-Israel agitators at the expense of Zionist Christians and Jews is unacceptable.”

Professor Ed Morgan of the University of Toronto criticized York, citing a 1992 ruling by the U.S. Supreme Court that struck down a county government's increased fee for police protection for a controversial speaker because "speech cannot be financially burdened, any more than it can be punished or banned, simply because it might offend a hostile mob." Regarding the situation at York, Morgan wrote that "It's bad enough that there are "hostile mobs" on our campuses; making others pay for that hostility only rubs salt in our wounded freedoms." Prof. Howard C. Tenenbaum, also of the University of Toronto, wrote that York "has lost all stature as an academic institution whose remit is to provide for full academic discourse, freedom from hatred on campus and freedom of speech, unless of course that freedom only includes unabashed hatred for the State of Israel." David Murrell of the University of New Brunswick wrote that "Everyone has a supposed right to free speech at York University – so long as groups can afford to pay security against leftist intimidation."

Response from York

In a letter to the editor in the National Post, Patrick J. Monahan, York University's Provost and VP Academic, denied that Pro-Israel groups were subject to more stringent conditions and that "the procedures applied in this instance were precisely the same as those applied to any event involving high profile and controversial speakers... In this case, it was determined – in consultation with the host student group... that added security would be necessary." Consequently, Christians United for Israel (CUFI) agreed to hire two Toronto Police officers and two additional York Security, and that the cost of Toronto Police Services is always paid by the group that requires their attendance. Monahan further stated that CUFI initially agreed to cover the cost but subsequently stated that its sponsors had refused to provide any funds for security. The university then proposed several changes to the event and that "the decision not to proceed was CUFI's alone." Monahan further rejected Frum's allegations that Pro-Israel groups were treated unfairly, and argued that "the university applied a fair procedure designed to provide and maintain a safe environment balanced against what a university must provide in the terms of debate, free speech and hard-held views."

Response from Organizers

Michael Mostyn, the National Director of public affairs for B'nai Brith Canada responded by suggesting that Monahan was being disengenious in his letter. Mostyn wrote that on the morning the "Imagine with Us" event was support to occur, the organizers were effectively given an ultimatum from the University that unless they provided funds for York security and regular police officers, the event would have to be cancelled. When the students stated that they would not provide these funds, the university then reiterated that the event would be cancelled. Thus, Mostyn argued that "The cancellation, therefore, was a de-facto decision by York University, not the students."

Mostyn criticized York University for its handling of the situation, pointing out that while Imagine with Us was considered a security risk due to anti-Israel protesters, Israeli Apartheid Week was not because similar disruptions were not expected from Pro-Israel groups. Mostyn further argued that: "There should be no attempt to frame this debate as one of freedom of speech on campus. If anything, York has shut down free speech on campus, not enhanced it."

YorkU murder of Chinese student
A YorkU student at the university's MBA program living near the campus was murdered recently and the incident has sent shockwaves across campus, reigniting the issue of student safety at YorkU. But no, apparently this doesn't qualify as news under the campus safety section. Unless the people doing the reversions have a good excuse for the deletion of this incident, it should be kept.Sleetman (talk) 21:28, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, I've removed this pending discussion here. The event did happen off-campus, and unless there is some connection to the university (other than the victim having attended it) it is questionable as to whether it belongs in this article. --Ckatz chat spy  09:06, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Sir, I hope you're not suggesting that the murder of the student attending YorkU has no effect on the campus safety of the university. If you are, I would direct you to one of the sites reporting on this story http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2011/04/19/police-investigating-homicide-near-york-campus/ where it clearly shows the murder affecting the York University community. To judge whether or not an incident qualifies as a matter of campus (in)security based on the technicality of geography (whether it happened on the YorkU campus or not) is I would say a strange way of thinking about campus security...if i could just use an example here to illustrate the point if a murder happened in my neighbour's house, I would argue that many people living near the area of the neighbour's house would feel a heightened level of "household insecurity." But according to your criteria, people living near the neighbour shouldn't feel that way because technically the murder didn't happen on their household property.Sleetman (talk) 20:51, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I have also removed this - how is this reflective of the University? Did not happen in there  jurisdiction  nor was it perpetrated by someone affiliated with the  University. Just happen to be a student there. Moxy (talk) 02:01, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Ma'am, the article clearly states the York University community is affect by this, especially their sense of campus security. It doesn't reflect the university, but it does reflect an issue of YorkU's campus security (which is the heading of the section under which the piece of information is put under). The fact that the student murdered was a student at YorkU gives YorkU students all the more reason to be concerned. Sleetman (talk) 02:43, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * 3 editors have now removed this -   voicing  there concerns over its relevance to this article. -  Could you pls read  BOLD, revert, discuss cycle as we have certain editing conduct  expectations. That said do you think an  encyclopedia should list ever indecent that happened  to anyone affiliated with the campus? (has this changed policies at YorkU's - or is it just another incident in the community as a whole?   Anyways  will let the next editor remove this if they also see it as a stretch on info that should be in an encyclopedia. This whole article needs real work (just horrible article)Moxy (talk) 03:06, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Ma'am, again as I said, no serious person looking at this story will tell you that this doesn't affect YorkU's campus safety, heck even an article published in a well-known Canadian publications says it does! You haven't given me anything more than "this murder didn't happen on campus" as justification for deletion which I've responded to...also, the note that you left on my page it could be applied to anybody, and as I've seemed to note those kind of edits (which you call politically biased) happen all over the internet. I don't know why you should single me out for doing it, especially not when i've put citations on the bias of those organizations.Sleetman (talk) 03:35, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * As for this article - i simply disagree - many many incidents of this nature happen all the time - dont see who this is different and or notable to be included here as it did not even happen on campus nor did it affect policies of the campus. As for what i said on your talk page - politically biased does happen all over the internet - but is not allowed here - we  are an encyclopedia not a blog. Again if you need help in this regard i can help with the tone used so things can be included - as  i have said before editions like this will be reverted and will only lead to frustration on your part that they keep getting reverted. On a side note liberal-leaning is only  a bad thing in the United states -  the rest of the world will see this as a good attribute for the Institute. Moxy (talk) 03:46, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Ma'am, a third time now. The story is notable, there are multiple articles on various Canadian publications that have reported on this incident. Moreover, many of these articles report the increased level of campus insecurity students feel on campus. (the headline doesn't mention anything about campus safety policies, it's just campus safety) As i've said before, no sensible person will look at this story and come up with the conclusion that people's sense of campus safety on YorkU isn't affected........Now, with the political bias, well let me begin by saying, a smart comment like "liberal-leaning is only a bad thing in the United States - the rest of the world (what happens if i dont live in the US by the way) will see this as a good attribute for the Institute" doesn't exactly help you - it just makes your exhortation about encyclopedia neutrality little more than sanctimonious rhetoric, and rest assured when you do try to have my editions removed I will cite this sentence by you as evidence of your clear lack of neutrality. The editions i've put for UI are sourced from verifiable sources, so i'd strongly suggest that you don't delete it. You also havent made this comment about centrist or right-of-center organizations and the qualifying comments they get, so I don't understand why you'd make this comment when I'm doing it for left-of-center organizations. Sleetman (talk) 04:20, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Funny 3 people have said this now? - As for the rests - O well i tried to help many times now - i wish you all the best of luck in your editing adventures here. You will find bulling your edits in and treating people will not get you far. Moxy (talk) 04:23, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Ma'am, a fourth time now. (I've been saying it, the same points four times over) The student murdered was a YorkU student and articles have said the feelings of campus safety of YorkU students have been compromised, but apparently this doesn't qualify as an edition under the campus safety section.
 * Facepalm.Sleetman (talk) 04:46, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Consensus for the inclusion of the murder of a YorkU student under YorkU's section "Campus Safety"
Yes or no? (See above section for discussion on this issue)Sleetman (talk) 19:41, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I cant beleive there is a discussion on this - it has made international news in multiple countries, it is clearly notable. Include it somewhere, anywhere- It should be on this page. That section seems to make the most sense. Outback the koala (talk) 19:50, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Whether or not the incident is notable is not the issue. There is disagreement that the incident is relevant to the main article about York University. The problem is that Sleetman has been repeatedly reverting in his text, and also claiming that there was consensus to do so *despite no such consensus existing*. --Ckatz chat spy  20:02, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
 * It happened in the York University Village. How is it not directly connected to the university? Outback the koala (talk) 20:08, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I second Koala's comments (in addition to the one's i've made above)Sleetman (talk) 20:24, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Koala, from what I can discern, YU Village is not on campus, nor is it an actual part of the university itself. What has to be considered is the depth of coverage (and if we are overcovering) in respect to encyclopedic value, not news value. --Ckatz chat spy  21:26, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I can't comment on the YU village, but agree with Ckatz that the depth of coverage should be limited here, with empahasis being directed to the impact on the student community, rather than the details of the murder, which could possibly be sufficiently notable to justify its own article, if it doesn't already.--Derek Andrews (talk) 00:15, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The YU Village is not part of the educational campus of York, but it is finacially supported by the university, was developed by the university, and has partial (but not full) ownership over many properties (but not all) within this defined area. They had sold all of the land and then later re-purchased limited portions. The university does not concider it part of the campus even though it is directly adjcent, and in some cases encompassed by the "campus". It continues to appear on all maps as do building designations. The university announced in Jan 2011 it would be closing a residence in order to 'move' students into the village. So the university does not consider it part of the university; but I still believe this should be included anyway because of its proximity and it's former and current (sketchy) ties. Outback the koala (talk) 05:38, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Since Ckatz hasn't replied and is outnumbered 3 to 1 on this issue...should the edit documenting the murder of the Chinese student be put back in the article? Sleetman (talk) 22:54, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes. Clearly. Outback the koala (talk) 23:07, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I disagree -  we cant have what is bellow - this is not grade 5 nor a news paper play by play on the guess work of the case. Would need to be completely redone if its to be included at all and would need to prove any consultants to the University.  Again were is the impact tot the school? Do you see any mention of Ted Bundy at any of the Unovercities were students were killed ---NO! so y here pls explain?Moxy (talk) 23:44, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

On April 15, 2011 a 23-year old Chinese overseas student studying for an MBA at York University was found dead in her apartment near the university campus, with a Toronto Police homicide Inspector saying that the circumstances in which the woman's body was found "was very disturbing." Investigators said that the earliest phases of a deadly altercation may have been captured by a Web camera and witnessed by one of the student’s friends in China before the attacker turned off and took off with the victim's ThinkPad T400 laptop. The police have released a description of the attacker.
 * Sources retrieved here ([], [], [], [] all show the clear connection between the YorkU murder and campus safety..I should also point out despite Moxy's concurrence, the nay side still outnumbers the yea side 3 to 2.Sleetman (talk) 00:07, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Good so you understand there is no consensus at this time  (as you have pointed out the vote is split).  I guess its time for ;Third Opinions: 3O is reserved for cases where exactly two editors are in dispute. Moxy (talk) 00:14, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
 * You're right there's no consensus at the time, but it's absurd to suggest that the vote is split you are currently outnumbered 3 to 2 on this issue. Feel free to ask for a third opinion on this issue though.Sleetman (talk) 00:38, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I suggest an WP:RFC on this. Also add York University Village after near the campus. It should be explicit where the crime took place, thereby solidifying connection. Outback the koala (talk) 01:38, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Ok there really seems to be people that wish to include this - so how about a compromise (that includes the topic - but with limited details) - This way its mentioned with references for people to click on for more info on the topic. (Thinking this may need its own article). So what do you think add more?? less??Moxy (talk) 03:08, 25 April 2011 (UTC)


 * In April 2011 security was again brought into the spotlight, when a 21 year student (may be a name here?) was murder off campus in "The  Village".(refs here) This lead to York University increasing  security on the  campus.(refs here)
 * AGREE --Derek Andrews (talk) 11:54, 25 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Thats an interesting spin - but I can agree to it. Outback the koala (talk) 04:20, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

The wording in the lede need attention
These two sentences have weasel words in them: "The school of social work is recognized as having one of the most socially responsive programs in the country.[6] York University's business school and law school have continuously been ranked among the top schools in Canada and the world.[7][8]" The very same information can be written in a precise way. This will help the article. COYW (talk) 02:46, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Intro section needs Citations
The introduction section is lacking sufficient citations as according to Citing sources guidelines. Specifically, a reference (and not just a bibliography title) is needed for statements such as:
 * "school of social work is recognized" by who exactly?
 * "York University's business school and law school have continuously been placed" what organization has placed them?
 * "Faculty of Science and Engineering is Canada's primary research facility into Martian exploration" according to who exactly?
 * "Canada's leading interdisciplinary university" again according to who? and on what criteria is this statement based.

These statements by definition are not common knowledge and are likely to be challenged. Therefore they must be attributed to a reliable published source using an inline citation. The citation should fully identify the source, and the location within the source (specifying page, section, or such divisions as may be appropriate) where the material is to be found. 142.109.70.73 (talk) 19:28, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

I strongly agree that inline citations are needed for this article. 174.116.38.15 (talk) 12:16, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Opinion removed
I removed this entire section because it is strictly commentary (opinion) and is unreferenced.

Academic Standards, Leadership Skills & Community Service

One can presume that the University had the best intentions of students in mind when crafting this regulation and it cannot be condemned for its stance on the topic. However, it should be noted that the decision to not recognize fraternities and sororities may be based, at least to some degree, on stereotypes about these types of organizations as depicted in the media. By and large, students who are members of fraternities and sororities perform well in their studies. In fact, many organizations require students to present proof of satisfactory academic performance in order to maintain their "member in good standing" status.

Moreover, the chapters are very active in a philanthropic capacity. Typically, each fraternity and/or sorority will have an official charity, with the chapters organizing events to raise money and awareness on behalf of the causes they serve. These events, which can range from a bake sale to a large scale auction of donated items, give members invaluable experience in the areas of leadership, budgeting, team work, event planning and social responsibility, to name only a few. Members of Greek societies are often active in extra curricular activities outside their chapters as well, such as University sport teams and other official campus clubs.

Given the fact that York is largely a commuter school, fraternities and sororities can help bring a sense of involvement to their members.

•••Life of Riley (T–C) 19:03, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Nobel (Roger Pulwarty) + Pulitzers
I removed the claim regarding a Nobel Prize winner. Roger Pulwarty was not a co-receipient of the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize just because he was one of a number of lead authors on a chapter in IPCC report released only a month before the prize was awarded. Dr Pulwarty does not appear to be making this claim on his CV or writings. Membership in an organization that wins a Nobel does not mean you won a Nobel.

The Pulitzer claim is specific but lacks any citation. There are no obvious Pulitzer winners listed in York University people. A Google search of yorku.ca does not show Pulitzer Prize Winners on the faculty. A search of Pulitzer.org shows no references to York University at all. Does anyone have any citations for these 14 Pulitzer Prize winners? PantsB (talk) 06:26, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Never mind, I removed. This claim used to be part of an unreferenced and clearly false claim about 12 Nobel Prize winners and 14 Pulitzer winners. PantsB (talk) 06:31, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Please don't revert without checking talk page. The Attorney General of Ontario -John Gerretsen was educated at Queen's University not York. The President of the Privy Council of Canada - Peter Penashue - was educated at Memorial University of Newfoundland.PantsB (talk) 14:32, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Controversies section way too long
The "Controversies" section of this article is *way* too long and detailed for this article. We are giving these recent events way too much weight in an article that is about the entirety of the university. I don't have a strong opinion about whether the material should be moved to a new article or articles but most of it should definitely be removed from this article. ElKevbo (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

I agree with this comment. Balance is important. That murder case made headlines worldwide. It does not matter that it occured off campus by a few metres or one kilometre. The university's name is front and centre where that crime happened & it affected the university community. It is worth noting in the article for a few lines and a link for further reading. A few lines do not unbalance the page. Speaking of "unbalanced", the new way the rankings section has been handled can also be called grossly unbalanced. In this case, the news is not about the university, but an organisation's opinion/study of the university... Surely, we can all agree that those third-party opinions are held "off campus". If they are worthy of inclusion, then *notorious* news that affects people on campus must also be included. COYW (talk) 18:08, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Renown in lead
A new editor is insisting that the following paragraph be included in the lead of this article:

York University is well-renowned for its liberal arts programs (ranked 127th in the world for its faculty area Arts and Humanities ), most of which are ranked above 150th in the world and some of which are ranked above 100th in the world, including English Language and Literature, History and Archaeology and Geography. York University is also ranked 6th in Canada amongst all other Canadian universities by the authoritative Gourman Report Ranking of Canadian Universities.

I am one of the editors who objects to the material. It may be worthwhile to include in the body of this article (if it's not already there) but it doesn't appear to rise to the level of inclusion in the lead. In fact, the rankings described in the paragraph don't appear to lend a whole lot of credibility to the claims it makes i.e., 127th in the world, 6th in Canada. More importantly, even if we accept the claim that those are very high rankings they say nothing about how long the university has been "well-renowned" nor how widespread those claims are outside of a couple of recent ranking systems.

If the claim is true then it needs a lot more supporting evidence. If this is all of the available evidence then it needs to be toned down and moved out of the lead. ElKevbo (talk) 03:36, 20 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I am living in Toronto and recently have been doing research on universities in Canada. One of the surprising things that I noticed is that while York U is doing a great job on its liberal arts programs, achieving to be ranked above 150th in the world, the university has been suffering from stigma on safety issue (while it is already proved and published that there are more crimes in downtown University of Toronto and Ryerson University campuses ) and on the fact that it is easier to get in than University of Toronto. The main reason why I wanted to put this paragraph in the lead is because a lot of people, especially parents, care really much about rankings, which are not able to clearly reflect the academic aspect of a university. One of the reason why York University failed to be ranked the top 100 in the world is because liberal arts programs are usually regarded as "soft subjects" and its engineering programs are still raising. However, that does not mean it is a low tier university. Ranking is what gives people the first impression of the university when they search about it and that's why I want to put what the university is good at in the lead so that people will not be misled by the stigma. Apropos of the "well-renowned", it is almost impossible to prove this because who would publish articles to prove the "renown" of a university? The only thing that can prove its academic level is subject rankings but even if York University does a good job in subject rankings, the stigma still remains. One thing I can say about this is, however, when I was in China I went to some agencies that help students prepare to study abroad and I asked around about information about Canadian universities, I found that York University is considered one of the good universities in Canada under the "top level" university McGill University. Therefore, I thought if a university is well-recognized in a prosperous and "crowded" countries like China, it is not a hyperbole to say that the university is "well-renowned". Jamestsim (talk) 18:05, 20 August 2014 (UTC)JamesTsim

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Israel-Palestine sections
Folks, Wikipedia is not a place to fight battles. The two large sections "Violation of academic freedom" and "Intimidation and Harassment of Pro-Israel Groups" start with non-neutral headings and go downhill from there. Not only that, but a majority of the text is either not sourced at all or is sourced to blogs or dead links. It really must be reduced to a paragraph with a few good secondary sources, no more than that. Zerotalk 12:38, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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I have just modified 15 one external links on York University. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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2018 Strike POV
The section does a very good job of explaining CUPE3903's perspective, but the university's perspective seems to be missing. I think there needs to be some expansion on that for WP:NPOV 135.0.196.51 (talk)

2018 strike section was moved to main article by User:135.0.196.51 and section was truncated by User:ElKevbo 135.0.196.51 (talk) 20:02, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Details about strikes
Another editor is insisting that we keep over 16k (over 20 paragraphs) of details about the current strike. That is way too much detail for this (or nearly any other) article. Can the editor(s) who want to keep this amount of detail please explain their rationale? Thanks! ElKevbo (talk) 03:24, 17 May 2018 (UTC)