Talk:Yoshiyahu Yosef Pinto

Jews are special, discussion
Thanks Q for your input and vigilance on the article. I also hesitated yesterday about the 'not well known in Israel' in light of the house arrest but decided to just stick with the sources and left it. I'm also OK with leaving it out. Regarding the every Jew is special, I'm going to look into that because as I remember it, the source made a big deal about this being a significant philosophical belief of Pinto's that was out of step with other rabbis. I'll have a look and post something here for discussion. Thanks again. -- — Keithbob • Talk  • 16:57, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Jerusalem Post Oct 1, 2010:
 * "Pinto seems to possess the religious charisma and wisdom to draw thousands in Israel and the Diaspora to seek his guidance and follow his teachings, as well as the lineage and schooling that provide firm rabbinical foundations, and '''a religious worldview that sees the good and holy in every Jew regardless of his lifestyle, before anything else."
 * Fundamentally, Pinto’s approach to accepting every Jew is “like that of the Ba’al Shem Tov,” says confidant Rabbi Meir Pinto (no direct relation). Like the 18th-century founder of Hassidism, who combined scholastic depth with outreach, Yeoshiau Pinto sees in every Jew “the good, the heart with a warm, living spark. Every Jew is a unique diamond,” says Meir. “But sometimes the diamond falls to the ground and becomes dirty. You need to gently lift and clean such specimens from where they fell, till they become worthy of a king’s crown.”
 * Accordingly, Pinto addresses his interlocutors as “tzaddik” or “rabbi,” an expression of his belief that every Jew is special, with a unique spiritual mission to fulfill, Meir added.
 * -- — Keithbob • Talk  • 17:05, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Other potential content

 * In 2011, allegations were made against Pinto's Shuva Israel organization about possible financial impropriety, claiming that jewelry, luxury accommodation and clothing were paid for with charity funds. Pinto said the allegations were part of an extortion attempt by two former associates of his, one of whom embezzled the charity's funds. He added that he was never involved in the network's financial administration.-- FBI considers investigating Rabbi Pinto's supporters, Jerusalem Post, March 5, 2012
 * Rabbi Yoshiyahu Pinto, spiritual adviser to many members of Israeli high society, gave his approbation on Wednesday to the social justice movement that has gripped the country in recent months. "I support the social struggle with all my heart and feel very proud to see women leading this movement, something unprecedented in the history of Israel," Pinto said. Pinto met with activist Daphni Leef over Succot and expressed his support for the protest and its goals. "The societal situation in Israel is very bad," the rabbi said. "A situation has been created in which those born into wealth can live in dignity and luxury and everyone else is forced to deal with large debts to the banks and work without end in order to simply cover the costs of living. "We see great poverty in Israel," Pinto told Leef. "We see neglect all over the country. This situation must change and the struggle that you are leading is a turning point in Israeli society. The community and network of charitable centers which I lead, Shuva Yisrael, will do everything possible to assist and support the continued protests and a better future for the people of Israel.-- Mystic Rabbi Pinto backs social justice movement, Jerusalem Post, October 27, 2011 | JEREMY SHARON
 * For the past 11 years Pinto has been bringing his followers to the grave of Rabbi Eliezer Papo, whose works Pinto finds very inspiring. Papo, who is called the Peleh Yoetz after his seminal work on Jewish ethics, died in 1826 at the age of 43, when a plague hit the Bulgarian port town of Silistra. --Rabbi Pinto: God will save us from Iran if we are united, like in the Purim story. Bulgaria beefs up security for pilgrimage to the grave of kabbalist, largest Jewish event since Burgas terror attack, Jerusalem Post, September 6, 2012 | LAHAV HARKOV /
 * JERUSALEM (AP) — Israeli police say they have placed a prominent rabbi under house arrest and banned him from traveling abroad as they investigate allegations that he bribed a high-ranking officer for access to his police file. Police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said Monday that Rabbi Yoshiyahu Yosef Pinto is under 15-day house arrest and a six-month travel ban.---Top Israeli rabbi faces house arrest, travel ban, AP Online, October 15, 2012
 * His success as an adviser to the rich and famous has made his organization wealthy; the Israeli edition of Forbes magazine recently ranked Pinto as Israel's 7th richest rabbi, based on organizational holdings. Long based in the Mediterranean port city of Ashdod, Pinto opened a second headquarters in 2002 in New York, where he resides in a $6.5 million town house and delivers sermons in a building purchased in 2009 for $28.5 million.--NY pol's reliance on rabbi comes back to haunt him, AP Worldstream, September 3, 2012 | DAVID B. CARUSO
 * Rabbi Yoshiyahu Yosef Pinto, who used to be on a frequent commute between Israel and the US, where his gift for clairvoyance turned him into a regular guru. Pinto recently acquired a new home in Ashdod. His housewarming party, which was somewhat different to those held in the secular community, was attended by numerous politicians and businesspeople - among them Interior Minister Eli Yishai, Communications Minister Moshe Kahlon, Transportation Minister Israel Katz, MKs Dalia Itzik, Isaac Herzog and Yoel Hasson, former deputy defense minister Dalia Rabin, actress Tzofit Grant, and business tycoons Lev Leviev and Ilan Ben-Dov. --A savior for Kiryat Shmona?, Jerusalem Post, June 24, 2011 | Greer Fay Cashman
 * But in spite of its unassuming character, 2,000 pilgrims nevertheless flew to the eastern Bulgarian town of Silistra early Wednesday morning to pay homage at the grave of Rabbi Eliezer Papo, a venerated teacher of the movement espousing ethical and spiritual behavior, who served as the town's communal leader in the early 19th century. Led by the revered Rabbi Yoshiyahu Pinto, seven flights in total were chartered out of Israel, America, Argentina and Europe bearing the faithful to the Black Sea city of Varna and then on to Silistra by the busload. Bemused onlookers watched from the streets and balconies as hundreds upon hundreds of Orthodox men crammed into the small compound where Rabbi Papo rests to dance to the tunes of raucous Jewish music, and pray for success, health and happiness ahead of Rosh Hashana. "Rabbi Papo had special gifts and abilities, derived from his trait of self-sacrifice," Pinto told The Jerusalem Post. "He had the ability to raise people up and this spiritual influence is accessible here at his grave. That is why it's so important to come here to take the opportunity to make use of these spiritual powers and influences." Pinto himself is renowned as someone of preternatural abilities, and stories abound of his wisdom and ability to intervene in the lives of those who seek his advice and counsel, among whom are included numerous members of Israel's social elite, uber-wealthy businessmen and senior politicians. Pinto does not deny his ability to influence and understand, but when asked about the nature of these powers told the Post simply, "we cannot say how these influences work." --Jewish pilgrims flock to Bulgarian holy site, Jerusalem Post, September 23, 2011 | JEREMY SHARON
 * -- — Keithbob • Talk  • 17:39, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Lead
It needs to be fleshed out sometime, but also it (and the infobox) says Moshat Shuva Israel. I don't remember seeing any sources that say Moshat. Does anyone else? Also, it calls it a ministry. Has that term been used in any sources? Thanks.-- — Keithbob • Talk  • 19:00, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Arrest & Indictment
Pinto is under house arrest and facing indictment according to the Largest Israeli media outlets. Why would that not be in the lead is a wonder. Richierichriche (talk) 01:19, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * You seem to know your way around Wikipedia quite well, Richierichriche. Tell me, have yu ever edited under any other usernames? -- Dianna (talk) 01:21, 1 December 2012 (UTC)


 * (EC)WP:NOTNEWS, mostly. We don't lead with something just because it's what's happening right now--we lead with a big summary of his career. Should he actually be indicted, I do think we should probably add something to the lead. If more recent events have occurred, please provide sources here and we can discuss adding them. Qwyrxian (talk) 01:22, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The editor went directly to my talk page and next to Editor assistance/Requests. he seemed awfully familiar with Wikipedia for someone who only created his account 25 minutes ago, so I blocked as an obvious duck sock. -- Dianna (talk) 01:28, 1 December 2012 (UTC) ‎


 * One of his acolytes seems nice. I'll meet that person next time I'm in NYC. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 03:14, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Extended lede - 17/1/14
I have slightly extended the lede, as requested. As an outsider who had never heard of this person before, I feel that it is the article that is too long, rather than the lede too short. Much of the material seems to me to lack notability to the general reader. Valetude (talk) 13:18, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Legal problems in the lead
Perhaps someone better versed in the ways of WP:BLP can give some input as to whether the material on Pinto's recent legal problems belong in the lede? My impression was that it's not usual to do this, as it gives such matters undue weight. Also, the wording needs to be tended to, as "mired in controversy over the past few years" implies that there have been multiple controversies, when as far as I can tell there's only one legal problem, which has been ongoing for some time. -- Diannaa (talk) 20:12, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
 * WP:BLPCRIME counsels great care in approaching matters where someone has been accused but not convicted. Here, where an indictment has not even been handed down, I think even greater care should be taken, particularly in light of WP:NOTNEWS. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 23:17, 13 February 2014 (UTC)