Talk:You Don't Love Me (No, No, No)

Contested deletion
This article should not be speedy deleted as having no substantive content, because the rationale says "an article that contains no content whatsoever, or consists only of external links, category tags, a "see also" section, a rephrasing of the title, an attempt to correspond with the person or group named by its title, chat-like comments and/or images" - so which one of these applies exactly? Thanks. --Martinevans123 (talk) 18:13, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Songwriters

 * "It was written by Penn in collaboration with Bo Diddley and Willie Cobbs" — wording implies active participation by Diddley and Cobbs, which is unlikely. Their names were probably added to avoid a copyright lawsuit.  Unless there is a reliable source (not just a record label listing), try "credited to Penn, Diddley, and Cobbs".
 * If you sample from someone, they are credited as songwriters, yes because of copyright of material and content they have created. To be honest, they are active in a way as they have created what the cover artist is using. That's just how it is done. —  AARON  &bull; TALK   20:58, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * "which samples the music and lyrics of Cobbs' 1960 song "You Don't Love Me'" — sampling (music) means to actually take a potion of the recording from one song and use it in another, which is not the case here (there is no portion of Cobbs' recording in Penn's 1967 song). Penn's song is based on Cobbs' song, that is she used most of his lyrics and melody, but set it to a different musical arrangement (Cobbs based his on Bo Diddley's "She's Fine She's Mine", but changed it a bit; a brief search doesn't show that any of the three has brought a infringement claim against the others).  Perhaps change to something along the lines of "which is based on Cobbs' 1960 song" or "which uses the lyrics and melody from Cobb's 1960 song ... but with a rocksteady arrangement, which gave it a distinct rhythmic quality". -Ojorojo (talk) 19:46, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * If she has used his lyrics and melody, then that is using a portion of the song, as it's not the same musical arrangement, as you say. —  AARON  &bull; TALK   20:58, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Sampling (music) (which the article links to) states "In music, sampling is the act of taking a portion, or sample, of one sound recording and reusing it as an instrument or a sound recording in a different song or piece". The dictionary includes in the definition of sampling "The technique of digitally encoding music or sound and reusing it as part of a composition or recording".  The Sampling article goes into specific detail, but the bottomline is sampling is the taking and reusing of a recording. The Penn song does not take any part of Cobbs' (or Diddley's) recording and use it in her song.  Penn's voice sings most of the lyrics and follows the melody line by Cobbs, but this does not constitute "sampling" by this definition, because she has created it — Cobbs' voice or any other sounds in his recording are not reused in Penn's song. So, to say Cobbs' song is sampled is simply wrong.  -Ojorojo (talk) 14:28, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
 * What technical term would you propose replace it? Interpolation (music)? Contains elements of? —  AARON  &bull; TALK   15:37, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
 * In earlier versions of the article, Penn's song was called an interpretation of Cobbs' song. "Contains elements of", "is based on", "borrows from", etc. all would have a similar meaning.  Interpolation is a much narrower term, whereas these others are broader (and more easily understood). Mentioning that Penn (or her producers) added a new backing arrangement (i.e., rocksteady) helps clarify why it just isn't a cover. Have the others who recorded their versions really sampled Penn's song, interpreted it (added some original elements), or just covered (copied) it?  (BTW the lead should just summarize the article and the details be contained in the appropriate section — I'll take a go at it later in my sandbox.) -Ojorojo (talk) 17:42, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
 * All the singers have either covered the song (Rihanna), sampled the song (Lily Allen) or performed parts of the song with another song live (Beyonce). —  AARON  &bull; TALK   18:50, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Added some references, infobox material, etc. Change as you see fit. -Ojorojo (talk) 14:23, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry but I couldn't see any references. You just added back what was there before, which was unsourced, as well as other unsourced material. And you made the lead not per MOS or LEAD. —  AARON  &bull; TALK   21:50, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Odd, new referenced material was added, including a direct quote. However, additional quotes and references have been provided. -Ojorojo (talk) 15:19, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Edit conflicts
Edit conflicts are causing confusion in the GA comments section. I have no intention of deleting or refactoring comments. -Ojorojo (talk) 17:32, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, your revision edit shows that mine was removed after I had already posted. If you are in an edit conflict, as I have learnt, you simply copy whatever you have written, then refresh the page, and see what has happened. That way, you can check what has been updated without losing what you have written. If needed, paste what you have copied. —  AARON  &bull; TALK   17:43, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

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Merge discussion
It's clear from the articles that "You Don't Love Me (No, No, No)" and "You Don't Love Me (Willie Cobbs song)" are connected. The consensus is that renditions of a song by other artists should not have separate articles (see WP:SONGCOVER). A rendition doesn't have to be a strict copy or "cover song" as the term was originally used. Several articles include substantially different arrangements of a song[1,2,3].

Should the articles be merged? Depending on the responses, this may be turned into a formal request for comments, so please preface your discussions with "Merge", "Don't merge", or "Comment". —Ojorojo (talk) 17:28, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Don't merge. "You Don't Love Me (Willie Cobbs song)" is its own song, with its own history.  It is not a footnote to or derivation of "You Don't Love Me (No, No, No)".


 * The dancehall adaptation "You Don't Love Me (No, No, No)" may be derived from Cobbs' "You Don't Love Me", but (a review of its article confirms) it has taken on a life of its own in the modern era. It appears on the merits of being repeatedly covered itself by such name artists as Rihanna and Beyoncé and its durable contemporary popularity to deserve its own article.Wikiuser100 (talk) 11:49, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Placement of audio
Template:Infobox song says:
 * "misc: This is not a space for miscellaneous information or comments. It allows for the use of subtemplates, including Template:Extra chronology, Template:Extra track listing, Template:Extra album cover, Template:Audio sample, and Template:External music video. Please refer to the template pages for explanations on their use."

Doesn't this also include External music videos that are audio only? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:00, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, but for multiple YouTube links, EL is better than the infobox. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:46, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I see. Why is that? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:51, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Personnel
Any ideas as a reliable source for musicians? I looked over at No, No, No (Dawn Penn album), with no luck. Discogs has some info. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:02, 7 September 2021 (UTC)