Talk:Your Favorite Enemies

Untitled
The Article that was in fault was article 7 of speedy delete... I have corrected this by putting quotes of billboard articles... and corretced th wrong links, and put them scarcely on the page. If any other article or general rule is broken please let me know and I will make the changes.

thank you!

Sophenemy (talk) 18:16, 6 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi Sophenemy. I agree that the article should not be speedily deleted, but it does need to be improved significantly.  It is written like an advertisement, and there are numerous formatting discrepancies taht need to be addressed.  I've been trying to help, but you keep reverting my edits without explanation.  You might consider checking Wikipedia's policy on Ownership of articles.  In a nutshell, you do not own articles (nor templates and other features of Wikipedia). If you create or edit an article, know that others will edit it, and within reason you should not prevent them from doing so.  Remember most editors are only trying to help.  Please don't hesitate if you have any questions.  Cheers, Dawn Bard (talk) 18:51, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Final Fantasy?
"In 2008 Your Favorite Enemies became the first foreign band to ever write songs for the legendary video game franchise Final Fantasy."

I really have to point out the redundancy and...well wrongness of this statement. Its basically being ambiguous to treat something small as fact. YFE didn't actually write any of the music for Dissidia -Final Fantasy- (the game being referred to here), the game's composer Takeharu Ishimoto did the actual music composition, whilst Alex Foster wrote the lyrics. Being rather nitpicky, you could almost credit the band as having contributed lyrics, though to me it seems like the credit goes to Alex Foster himself (as is credited in the liner notes for the soundtrack, whilst YFE are credited as having designed the arrangement of the songs (Cosmos, Chaos, and THE MESSENGER), which presumably was just a case of "these are our instruments, so this is how we can play it".

To further highlight the ambiguity of the statement. In-house Square Enix composer Masashi Hamauzu (Final Fantasy X, Dirge of Cerberus -Final Fantasy VII-, the upcoming Final Fantasy XIII) is actually German, though he now lives in Japan (a couple of years ago he returned to his "hometown" to compose the Vielen Dank album). If we're crediting YFE as the "first band" to write songs for Final Fantasy, then surely we need to bring as much importance to people like Alexander O. Smith, who wrote the English lyrics of Melodies of Life (Final Fantasy IX) and Otherworld (Final Fantasy X), and Brian Gray (writer of the English lyrics to real Emotion and 1000 Words (Final Fantasy X-2)). It just seems weird to credit YFE in this way, when Hamauzu and Smith could just as easilly be classed as as "the first foreign person to ever write songs for the legendary video game franchise Final Fantasy."

I mean yes, its not technically a lie that they're the first foreign band to supposedly write music for the series, if you count one guy from the band writing lyrics, or the entire band for the arrangement. But it seems a bit like favouritism to place it in such a factual way, when really precedants should be given to those other people who are more notable in this sense.

Sorry for the wall of text here. TonyKM (talk) 00:36, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Final Fantasy? answer
Maybe you have noticed that in iTunes the author of the 3 songs (Chaos, Cosmos, And The Messenger) is Your favorite enemies... Please check your sources before saying an information is wrong... iTunes is a pretty good source to base your information upon... And If you have purchased the Soundtrack, you will see in the booklet the exact same information, if you still doubt the accuracy of the information, please feel free to contact directly Square Enix, or simply go on their website... And yes Your Favorite Enemies is the first foreign Band ever to have composed songs for Final Fantasy, for they have composed it with Takeharu Ishimoto himself that has come all the way from Japan to Canada In Your Favorite Enemies' studio... Please do not post things that are simply tainted by your opinions... For only Japanese band's have participated to it prior to now. And Yes they Have composed these 3 songs as it is written on iTunes... And further more you even contradicted yourself in the facts you have quoted... So conclusion, Your favorite Enemies, Is the First "foreign Band" to have composed music for Final FantasySophenemy (talk) 20:52, 10 January 2009 (UTC)


 * You obviously don't pay attention to the facts as they're written on the soundtrack (which I own myself). "Recording Section: "Cosmos", "Chaos", & "THE MESSENGER" - Music: Takeharu Ishimoto, Arrangement: YOUR FAVORITE ENEMIES, Lyrics: Alex Foster (YFE)". The credits are pretty clear here; Ishimoto composed the song, YFE arranged it, and a member of YFE wrote the lyrics. Arrangement and lyrics don't count as composition. I'm a singer and piano player, sometimes I have to arrange pieces that are designed for more instruments so that I can reduce them to piano and voice, that doesn't mean I've composed it. Arrangement =/= Composition. As for your iTunes comment, iTunes lists the artist, with the composer in a seperate field, and lo and behold, a quick 2 minute check on iTunes proves my point "Artist: YOUR FAVORITE ENEMIES, Composer: 石元 丈晴" (which if you compare to Takeharu Ishimoto, you will notice thats his name). Its incredibly clear that my statement is not tainted by my opinions, but is in fact made up of clear and logical points, whereas yours is based on the apparent need to advertise and big up YFE on Wiki, as you have already been somewhat accused of doing above in another discussion. The only composition credits on the soundtrack go to Takeharu Ishimoto (for all orignal compositions on the album), Nobuo Uematsu (for the majority of the recycled Final Fantasy music), Naoshi Mizuta (for the tracks taken from Final Fantasy XI), and Hitoshi Sakimoto (for the tracks taken from Final Fantasy XII). At no point whatsoever in the soundtrack are YFE credited as composers, merely performers, arrangers, and in the case of Alex Foster, lyricist. I am completely willing to provide scans of the liner notes to prove my point on this issue, because I am disgusted that you claim I'm placing my own opinion on this when I've actually been logical from the beginning.


 * Furthermore, I have not contradicted myself. I've pointed out that you could credit YFE as the first foreign band to compose for Final Fantasy, but only if you stretch your definition of composition to include arrangement or lyric writing, at which point there's a whole host of other people who deserve that credit rather than YFE. I urge you to check your own facts in future, because you obviously have no clear way of disassociating what you want from the truth, and it defies the point of Wiki, which is made of up of verified statements, which I can provide 100% if I scan the liner notes from the soundtrack. TonyKM (talk) 11:55, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

About copyrights
May I present myself... My name is Sophie Martineau, I am YFE's official Graphic designer and web developer, and I have full copyright right to use their content and texts, and lyrics, and picture, and movies... I am the one who's making all their websites and things of the sort... Need I add more? Please If you have any reluctance in this matter please feel free to write at the email address in the myspace page of the band... And mention my name... they will confirm the truthfulness of my allegations... I have full copyrights' right because I work for them! So if any other matter are being contested, I will be happy to oblige in order to be "wiki conventional"... thank you Sophenemy (talk) 20:59, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Email received at 2009011010015769, explicit GFDL release requested. Stifle (talk) 23:04, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

[Ticket#2009011610002511] Your Favorite Enemies on Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I have received what seems to be an autorisation number for the copyrights... Please remove the copyright violation notice 74.58.92.148 (talk) 16:11, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I can confirm that the copyright issue has not been resolved. There are multiple OTRS tickets knocking about but nothing more substantial than permission to use on Wikipedia. Stifle (talk) 16:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Getting somewhere now, waiting for the website to validate a GFDL release. Stifle (talk) 10:20, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Now resolved. Stifle (talk) 16:28, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, this ticket includes a CC-BY-SA-3.0 release. Stifle (talk) 16:29, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

About Picture copyrights
I have made the demand to use the pictures from Your Favorite Enemies' official flickr photostream, which they have granted to me through email... I have sent this permission to be approuved to permissions-en@wikimedia.org... I have posted the images anyways, because the authorisation has been given to me... As soon as I have email confirmation by "permission" I will post it here... which shouldn't be too long, so please in the mean time do not flag the article... thank you! Sophenemy (talk) 21:21, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Privacy rights
YFE's spiritual beliefs should remain personal, and that their official position regarding the question is that they believe in social justice and the application of the human right's declaration regardless... That implying that they are born again Christians or not, is alienating and subjective in regards to YFE's position towards human rights. Sophenemy (talk) 05:06, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Genre?
Sounds more like pop-punk to me; calling it indie rock is both inaccurate and pretentious. Also, just how does it qualify for a WP:BLP notice? It's not about an individual. Furthermore, I question this article's notability per WP:SPIP and WP:PROMOTION. The almost sole author--whom has admitted to a professional association with the band--has contributed vast amounts of information to this article, which in and of itself would be acceptable had the language been neutral. Currently it still reads like a promotional piece, and such information might be more appropriate for social networking sites. To be honest, I hadn't heard anything of this band until I received a CD copy from a relative who BOUGHT it for $10 from someone who went door-to-door without even knowing what kind of music it was. --173.176.109.56 (talk) 03:06, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Neutrality
This article reads like a promotional pitch rather than an encyclopedic entry.  Sweet Nightmares  (awaken)  02:02, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Hello "SweetNightmares"! Thanks for sharing your matter...questioning the neutrality in the style of writing in the article regarding "Your Favorite Enemies. I just noticed your "talk" on here, after seeing the tag publicly added to this article. Actually...I'm still new and learning about the ethic of bringing contributions here on Wikipedia. I would be more than open to any advice/suggestions on making this article more proper, according to the Wikipedia ethic. Would you have some for me? Thanks for your help!Sophenemy (talk) 16:44, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

After taking note of the matter questioning the "neutrality" of the article about "Your Favorite Enemies", I am placing a note here in order to say that I chose to remove the NPOV notice on this article since I wish to work on it and edit it in a more "neutral tone", according to the policy of Wikipedia about the "Neutral point of view". Therefore, please note that this article will be subject to much editing in the upcoming days, while being in the process of "achieving neutrality" as also mentioned in the Wikipedia policies. However, I am open to any suggestions/advice and help of any kind in order to bring this article to its best! Thank you!Sophenemy (talk) 15:17, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Firstly, I appreciate all the work you've contributed. You've added a tremendous amount of content to this article! However, my gripe is mostly with words like "passionate," "unique," "inspired," and "substantial." Some of these are considered weasel words, and some are just flat-out promotion, which comes about when there is a conflict of interest. I'm thinking of adding this article to WikiProject_Neutrality in order to help this article achieve better objectivity.  Sweet Nightmares  (awaken)  02:05, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Hello again SweetNightmares! Thank you for your quick reply. I believe that both of us sincerely wish to bring this article to its best...which I think is great. And this is why, while awaiting for a reply for support, since the NPOV mention was added to the article of Your Favorite Enemies, I took care of reading about the Wikipedia policies and would be more than willing to work at making this article more objective. Therefore, thank you for taking note that I'll be working on the refreshing of this article asap. Thank you for your help!!!24.226.187.224 (talk) 15:46, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Hello SweetNightmares! It looks like something went wrong during the posting of my last contribution...so here it is again!:) Thank you for your quick reply. I believe that both of us sincerely wish to bring this article to its best...which I think is great. And this is why, while awaiting for a reply for support, since the NPOV mention was added to the article of Your Favorite Enemies, I took care of reading about the Wikipedia policies and would be more than willing to work at making this article more objective. Therefore, thank you for taking note that I'll be working on the refreshing of this article asap. Thank you for your help!!!Sophenemy (talk) 15:52, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

After mentioning my intentions throughout the previous posts on this talk page, I would like to confirm that I removed the NPOV mention off the article about "Your Favorite Enemies", regarding "objectivity, since I applied changes on this article, which I believe are making its content more aligned with the policies of Wikipedia, regarding that matter. If ever you see any other changes that could be applied regarding that concern, I would be more than open to work in collaboration with you in order to make this happen! :) Thank you!Sophenemy (talk) 18:01, 24 December 2011 (UTC)


 * This article is improving, but it still has a ways to go. For example, "Known for their commitment towards human rights" could use a source, or else it should be removed--I understand you want to promote this band, but Wikipedia is a place for neutral and relevant information, not a place for advertisement. I'll replace the NPOV tag until I hear other Wikipedia editors chime in.  Sweet Nightmares  (awaken)  17:41, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

I have reworded or removed some of the worst fluffery. However this article still has some way to go before the advertisement feel is transformed into relevant encyclopedic content. The long quotations from band members and reviewers are not encyclopedic. They should be summarised in neutral language and it should also be clear that it is the opinion of the source stated, not presented as actual facts. Some sections seems superflous to me, like the influences or meaning of the name, and the live section is also way too detailed for a band of this caliber (since it is to be expected they will keep touring, the section will eventually bloat into something that will be completely unmanageable). The bullet point list in the history section should be turned into prose, but remember in neutral wording. There are several sections that doesn't make any sense, especially the sections about their record releases. They should be reworded to include the basic facts, on this and that date they released an album/bootleg/concert recording or whatever, produced by so-and-so. Quotations about the artists intents should be short and to the point (and of course referenced). Reviews of the albums in the proper sections would also be nice, but just a short summary, no long quotations, please. --Saddhiyama (talk) 16:55, 12 January 2012 (UTC)


 * How about spinning off some of the content to actual ablum articles? Or maybe a discography article?  Someone has to deal with (ie remove) the album covers from this main article.  They do not belong there.  Post to my talk if anyone needs help in this regard.  Argolin (talk) 10:34, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

I have changed absolutely everything that was in this article. I believe it is now in Neutral style and presents facts. Long quotations have been removed, and the ones that remains have been reworded or shortened, and also all link to somewhere. The sections for influences, meaning of the name, and live have all been removed. The history is now a written text, with subsections for the different periods of the band. I have turned the release section into a discography section, with only the names and years of the releases, as most bands usually have on their wiki pages. Reviews of albums have been added into the history section in which the albums are explained. Stephanie.bujold (talk) 16:35, 16 June 2014 (UTC)