Talk:Youssef Nada

Unsubstaniated Wehrmacht connections
I replaced the section that said Nada was involved with German military intelligence and the Mufti. According to all government designations of Nada, he was born in 1931 which would have made him way too young to do anything in WWII. The idea that he was involved with German military intelligence got started by a French journalist who never referenced this allegation and Nada himself has correctly pointed out that he would have been too young. Lets stop this idea from going any further. Actually, Nada has discussed his childhood in some detail and, if I have the time, I will include some of this but for now I just put in his correct birth date and birthplace. I also deleted the reference to Biheiri as a principal of Al Taqwa because it is wrong; there never has been any connection from Al Taqwa to Biheiri other than possibly his being in Nada's address book. Sgmiller 08:48, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * That was fast (and it seems you'r eright.) What do you know about his early career with the Brotherhood?  There doesn't seem to be lot available on this guy. Whiskey Pete 01:43, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually there is quite a bit on him, but you have to know where to look. My problem is that I just don't have the time to work on WP which is unfortunate because anything to do with the Brotherhood is loaded with bad information, both from critics and supporters. It would be a full time job just to edit all the existing Brotherhood stuff on WP not to mention adding anything new. Maybe I can get back to this later but in the meantime, I will check on what you are doing to try and give you a "heads-up" on bad sources. Sorry I can't do more at the moment. Oh yes, the bad information about Nada and WW II came from Dollars for Terror by Richard Labeviere, a French journalist who seems to have been fed a bunch of bull by sources in Egypt. Avoid anything to do with this book.

Sgmiller 10:28, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I added some information on Nada's early life. Some of this is not available in the press or literature. -This is Nada writing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.202.93.76 (talk) 23:28, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

moving disorganized section from main artcle over here
verbatim, ntil someone can clean it up / de-plagiarise it Whiskey Pete (talk) 19:00, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Youssef Nada case debated in the European council
Dick Marty strongly deplores ‘flagrant injustice’ of UN Security Council blacklisting people suspected of terrorist links without evidence of wrong-doing

Strasbourg, 25.04.2007 – Council of Europe Parliamentary Assembly (PACE) investigator Dick Marty (Switzerland, ALDE) today strongly deplored the UN Security Council for the “flagrant injustice” of blacklisting individuals suspected of having links to terrorism without evidence of any wrong-doing, flouting its own principles.

The process of blacklisting – in which individuals have their assets frozen and are banned from travelling – is carried out behind closed doors by a New York-based committee (the “1267 committee”) at the request of Security Council members. Those blacklisted are not informed or given a chance to be heard, and there is no appeal. The list currently contains 362 individuals and 125 companies or organisations.

Speaking on the fringes of a major Council of Europe conference taking place today in Strasbourg on “Why terrorism?”, Mr Marty said the UN’s current blacklisting procedure was a “dangerous ongoing erosion of fundamental rights and freedoms, even within the instances mandated to protect and promote them” and discredited the international fight against terrorism.

He also announced that he would be extending his inquiry to a similar system of blacklists run by the European Union

In a preliminary report made public this week, Mr Marty cited the example of “Mr Y”, a successful Swiss-based businessman whose assets have been frozen and who has been barred from leaving the country since 2001. An Italian national of Egyptian origin and a Muslim, he was suspected of having funded the 11 September attacks – even though a subsequent four-year inquiry by Swiss prosecutors failed to find any evidence. UN and EU blacklists judged arbitrary by an Assembly Committee (more ...)    < European council web site> Mr Marty pointed out that three permanent members of the Security Council – France, Russia and the United Kingdom – were members of the Council of Europe, and were therefore bound by the European Convention on Human Rights, which guarantees the right to a fair trial, including the right to be heard  

moving plagiarised section here
This section (just removed from the main article) appears to be a cut-and-paste from various swissinfo articles.

The Swiss investigation of US allegations 2001-2005
Investigators probing individuals and firms suspected of funding terrorism say they have been given fresh evidence by the United States. A team of investigators, led by the Swiss deputy federal prosecutor, Claude Nicati, spent four days in Washington meeting with officials from the justice and treasury departments, the FBI and deputy attorney-general Larry Thompson.

“We got hold of the documents and information we have been asking for,” Hansjürg Wiedmer, a spokesman for the Swiss justice ministry, told swissinfo. “All in all we are very happy with these meetings. It was very important to meet each other and also to see there is a common goal here, which is to bring those responsible for the assaults of September 11 to justice.

Wiedmer said US investigators were expected to hand over more information shortly. However, he refused to disclose the contents of the documents, arguing that they were part of an “open criminal investigation in Switzerland”. That investigation is believed to relate to an ongoing inquiry into the Lugano-based financial services company, Nada Management, formerly known as AL TAQWA. The company’s offices in Switzerland were raided on November 7 – the same day that the organisation was accused by Washington of financing terrorism. Nada Management’s two financial directors, Youssef Mustafa Nada and Ali Ghaleb Himmat, were detained for questioning at the time and later released. Nada has denied any connection with suspected terrorist Osama bin Laden and his al-Qaeda network.

A fortnight ago, the Swiss deputy federeal prosecutor Claud Nicati revealed he had been unable to establish a link between Nada Management and terrorism, and would be heading to Washington in pursuit of new evidence.

Frozen assets: In a further development on Friday, the cabinet announced that it was freezing the assets of an additional 62 individuals and organisations suspected by the United Nations of having links to international terrorism. The Swiss government first drew up a list of proscribed individuals and organisations in October last year after the United Nations imposed sanctions on the Taliban regime in Afghanistan.

The US treasury pressed and supported the Swiss government to investigate Bank Al Taqwa and its management world wide. But documents supplied by the Americans to back up their allegations have failed so far to give the Swiss case any substance. The prosecutors’ own investigations have also not revealed anything substantial and no decision has been made whether to press charges and launch court proceeding. After four and half years the president of Bank Al Taqwa Youssef Nada sued The Swiss federal prosecutor. The court ruled that the prosecutors should have given some further reasons for the allegations made against Al Taqwa and its director in 2001. It added that Youssef Nada, who has been demanding an end to proceedings since 2002, should have been advised of specific charges.

The court also said there was no reason for the prosecutor’s office to have taken so long to decide whether to hand the case over to a tribunal. It criticised the prosecutors too for claiming late last year that judicial proceedings were about to be launched. The court Gave the Federal prosecutor until end May 2005 either to present the file to the instructing judge if he have any evidence or to close the file. On 31/5/2005 he closed the file and declared lack of evidence.

See:

Purported Soliman Biheiri connection
On 19:54, 2 December 2007, anonymous user, posting from the interesting IP address 190-152.77-83.cust.bluewin.ch and speaking on behalf of an unspecified "we", wrote on the main page:


 * "we can not understand the segnificanceof this story .Biheiri was not indicted and in this ref. we read a lot of news papers stories and articles . It could not be reliable if his case was closed without any indictement. All what was written is that in his notebook Nada name war there???"

The information about Nada's and Himmat's names appearing in Biheiri's notebook does appear to be reliable, and is significant due to other factors not mentioned, e.g. Biheiri's more substantiated affiliation with Yusuf_al-Qaradawi, one of al Taqwa's more interesting shareholders in the 1990s. enough to warrant the clarification in the article. If "you" (singular or plural) have any more information which will help clarify the presence (or lack of) a Biheri-Taqwa/Nada connection, feel free to contribute such. Whiskey Pete 20:10, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Removal of non-English language refs from lede
I removed, and the reverted an editor (apparent SPA 85.2.23.101) who replaced, the references from several French-language websites that did not quite say what the Wiki article implied that they said. Instead of having a revert war, why don't we talk about what information is present in these refs that the editor feels is preferable to the clearer and less ambiguous English-language press release by the United Nations? This article has been a minor battleground from time to time, and it really doesn't have to be. Ford MF (talk) 16:25, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Reply:

The links in French, especially the second (which is from the Swiss parliament), prove the effort of the Swiss to convince the US and the UN to delist Nada for being innocent and subject to what the Swiss Council of States defined an injustice. If you read the second you will realise a bit more what it is about. It is long but in depth, which is more useful to an enciclopaediac type of article. The Swiss Foreign Minister, Calmy Rey, states that the Swiss government has filed for the third time its request for delisting of Nada with its own recommendation to the Security Council. Furthermore, you will realize that the Council of States voted and of the 34 members all were in the favour of Nada. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.62.146.65 (talk) 18:03, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

With re to the delisting by the US, we cannot pubblish the documents yet although the Swiss government has stated in classified court documents that, as of August 2009, it (the Swiss gov) received information that the US government had asked itself the UN to delist Nada back in July 09 and that it was expecting an imminent delisting (which took place in September 09 -not in March 10, March 10 was a company/entity called Youssef M. Nada, not the individual). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.62.146.65 (talk • contribs)


 * I see it now. That link did not immediately go to the part of the website that asserted this.  There's no reason for this info to go into the lede, however.  I've moved it down to the "Swiss & Italian Investigation" section.  Ford MF (talk) 17:47, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Reply:

This has nothing to do with the investigation, it is about the attempts of the Swiss to ask the UN and the US to delist Nada given they found him innocent, again read the discussion in which Calmy Rey, the foreing minister states that explicitly ("En donnant suite à un mandat du Tribunal fédéral, la Suisse a décidé de soutenir les efforts de Monsieur Nada en vue de sa requête de radiation devant ce fameux comité, pour être radié de la liste des sanctions. Par courrier du 2 septembre 2009, nous avons transmis au Comité des sanctions les informations, à savoir un courrier de la Mission suisse auprès des Nations Unies du 11 mars 2009 concernant la société de Monsieur Nada, qui figure sur la liste des sanctions. Pour les raisons mentionnées dans le courrier, les autorités suisses réitèrent la position selon laquelle il convient de radier cette société de la liste des sanctions. Nous avons transmis un courrier du Ministère public de la Confédération adressé à l'avocat de Monsieur Nada, dans lequel le Ministère public de la Confédération apporte la confirmation que l'enquête de police judiciaire menée à l'encontre de Monsieur Nada n'a pas fourni d'indices de preuve mettant ce dernier en relation avec des personnes ou des organisations en lien avec Ben Laden, Al-Qaida ou bien les talibans".

Furthermore, I see that you have removed once again the comments on Comras, please read Nada's website on Comras' committee carefully. If you don't have the time to read it, then don't change this again for no reason. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.2.250.162 (talk) 13:53, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Reliable sources for BLP
I see someone added a request for "reliable sources", which I just removed.

This is an example of severe bias in the U.S. mainstream media. This man had been exonerated by both Swiss *and* Italian governments, as-from 2007 (and as from September 2012, has been the celebrated winner of an international human rights court case in Strasbourg. but as late as 2009, CBS named him in written media as being part of a "terrorist financial network". and CNN, in 2005, named him as part of the "terrorist money trail".

You see, here in Europe, the law states that you can't judge people on secret evidence. It happens, but when the person or organization contests it, they win.

In the United States, there is a lower standard for justice than in Europe - at least in this area. In the United States, the government can simply name someone as a terrorist without evidence, and there's not much to be done about it - especially if the person is not a U.S. citizen - but even so, there's not much to be done.

And the news media reflects this.

There's plenty of articles in Europe (in English, as well as French and German) on this man's story. The court which ruled on his case is the most supreme human rights court in Europe - one of several courts accustomed to dealing with such issues as wrongful terrorism appellations (EU CFI, EJC, and ECtHR).

Just because American news media outlets didn't report this, doesn't mean it wasn't well covered by the media. It means the US media doesn't cover important stories.

Nota bene: Swissinfo.org is a serious news media outlet here in Switzerland.

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.193.73.195 (talk) 22:12, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Here's more mainstream European articles if someone wants to add them. They are in French (and other languages) but they are mainstream news over here, i.e given that the English-speaking Swiss media isn't being treated as serious by persons on WP:


 * http://www.tdg.ch/suisse/youssef-nada-gagne-proces-suisse/story/31352637?track
 * http://www.rts.ch/video/info/journal-12h45/4266729-proces-de-youssef-nada-les-precisions-de-sandra-jamet-a-zurich.html
 * https://www.letemps.ch/suisse/2012/09/12/cour-europeenne-droits-homme-condamne-suisse
 * https://www.letemps.ch/suisse/2012/09/12/juges-strasbourg-condamnent-suisse-applique-aveuglement-sanctions-onu-contre
 * http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-and-european-union-grant-unlimited-powers-to-police-and-secret-services/9420

213.193.73.195 (talk) 22:26, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Nada was not exonerated. Some of the sources you list tell us that due to deadline pressures, the investigation was "suspended," that is, it can be restarted at any time fresh information comes in. The reason for the suspension was the deadline, which is a procedural issue, not a factual one. The Swiss investigator is on record as saying all these things. As for bias, all this was in fact reported in Newsweek, and I would be willing to bet you can also find it the New York Times.Theonemacduff (talk) 00:10, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

Signpost article
See related Signpost article: Tentacles of Emirates plot attempt to ensnare Wikipedia WP:Wikipedia_Signpost/2023-07-17/In_the_media and how the Swiss private intelligence company Alp Services by Mario Brero has been contracted by the UAE government to spy on citizens of 18 countries in Europe and beyond. Alp Services has sent to the UAE intelligence services the names of more than 1000 individuals and 400 organizations in 18 European countries, labelling them as part of the Muslim Brotherhood network in Europe.--Wuerzele (talk) 00:18, 20 July 2023 (UTC)