Talk:Youth square dance

A question about content
The article says ″At many adult square dance clubs and events, dancers are expected to come with a partner, and dance mostly, in some cases exclusively, with that partner. A dancer who comes without a partner may be accommodated in some cases (e.g., a single guest dancer) by matching him or her up with somebody else so that they can be treated as a couple for the duration of the event. In other cases, he or she may simply not be able to dance.″ I'm not sure where the author of this statement is from, but wherever I've danced in the past 15 years in Western Canada and USA, I find fewer and fewer couples clubs; perhaps this is due to the increasing number of widowed and divorced dancers. It is more common that a couple dance the first and last dance with their partner, and in between dance with a number of partners. Many dances and square dance conventions use various systems —-- such as a singles seating area —-- to make it easy to find a partner. It is incredibly rude that a single dancer ″may simply not be able to dance″. Graywriter (talk) 01:46, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Renaming article and general formatting
This article should be renamed Youth square dance according to Naming conventions if it is a general concept and not a proper name. A quick look on Google did not show that this is a proper name, except when used specifically as, for example Jolly Youth Square dance Club or World Youth Square Dance Day, or other similar. There are many examples where there is no capitalization.

Then all links to this article should be corrected to point to the new article name.

Also according to Manual of Style the article title should be the subject of the first link and made bold. I am sure that as a relatively new Wikipedian you will get a lot out of reading these guides, User:Shimonnyman, and it will make your contributions even more valuable.

Thanks for your recently made, many general contributions to the square dance articles (both existing and new). Its nice to know that there are other Wikipedians interested in this subject. I encourage you to set the category Category:Wikipedian square dancers on your user page so we can more easily identify ourselves as a group. Also I will encourage you to remember to log on when you do your edits-- I am confidant that you are the same as User 67.113.148.47-- as you claim to have started various articles (including this article) on your Talk page that this anonymous IP address has actually started (including this article). Unless you are purposely trying to be anonymous, this will also make it easier to identify your contributions.

Keep up the good work both in the square dance articles and in your other interest areas. And if you ever have any questions or comments, please don't hesitate to contact me on my Talk page. SFDan 06:59, September 6, 2005 (UTC)

Challenge square dancing
I changed the link from pointing to a new article on "Challenge square dancing" to instead linking to the section of the western square dance article that has to do with program lists. I do not believe that "Challenge square dancing" should have a separate article. I realize that there are many "Challenge-level events", etc. but then there are dances and events that focus on other levels too. So what is the result? Articles on Basic square dancing, advanced square dancing, etc.?

I think it would be a great disservice to the square dance community to begin dividing it up into little pieces where it is not absolutely necessary. And I think this is pushing the limit.

If you want to draw attention that there is a "cultural" divide (that we know as "challenge dancing") couldn't it be satisfied by a simple sentence or two (at the most) in the section on program lists? I think it could! If necessary at all to do so, and I don't really think it is. SFDan 10:42, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

I disagree -- not only is there is just as much a "cultural divide" between Challenge and non-Challenge as there is between Youth or Gay and the average club, but there are tons of things that could be written in an article about Challenge square dancing that would easily overwhelm the current general square dancing and western square dancing articles. Is it "absolutely necessary" to "divide up the community" by having separate articles for Youth or Gay dancing? Certainly not, and certainly those could have been created as sections within a more general article. It probably doesn't matter much either way, but wherever links to "challenge square dancing" point, it should definitely be something more than just the list of programs with an extra sentence! Joe Dehn


 * So write a good encyclopedic article on the subject, just don't leave a red link here for long, or even better write a short sentence (or two or three) on the western sqare dance page until you have written the article, and then when the article is written switch over. SFDan 06:07, September 11, 2005 (UTC)


 * I didn't create any link for challenge -- I think that was Shimon. I have no objection to the link as it is now (to the program lists section) as a temporary measure.  My objection was to the idea that Challenge dancing was somehow less "deserving" of a separate article than other topics.  Sure, switching the link to that article can wait until somebody writes it!  (No, I don't have time today...)  Joe Dehn


 * There is now a Challenge square dance article, with some basic information. The external links given on that page should be a good starting point for a more in-depth article. I share User:Sfdan's concern about overly-fragmenting the square dance articles, but I think the current organization allows us to keep the main MWSD article more focused.  C. Scott Ananian 18:44, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Terminology
There are times to use more general terms and times to use more specific terms. Most of the places where you changed "teen" to "youth" are OK -- I could see either one. But teens are only a subset of "youth", and they have different characteristics, both with respect to learning ability and social factors. So in reference to learning by "pulling through", I very intentionally used "teen" because the cases of which I am aware have involved people in approximately that age group. Maybe a little over or under, but not by much. I do not believe that this would work for a 7-year-old or a 25-year-old. So I have changed it back to "teen". If Shimon or somebody else has experience with such then I will defer to that and it can be changed back. Joe Dehn


 * How about younger people most often teens? because it is most often teens but I have come across a few people younger and older than teens that got pulled through succesfully. --Shimonnyman 05:25, 11 September 2005 (UTC)


 * To me it appeared that the article began switching between the terms "youth" and "teens" a bit arbitrarily (as if teens = youth). If there is good reason to differentiate, great!  Perhaps you might quality the distincition when it occurs.  For example, "At some clubs, older youth ("teens") have been known..., etc."  Is this because teens can assimilate the information better than younger (or older), or because they are more motivated (or appear more motivated), or some other reason that makes them more capable of being "pulled through" than younger?  Maybe that distinction can be clarified a bit.  Saying this as an outsider to youth square dance, but an insider to square dance, I hope you take these as constructive ideas for making things clearer to us "older" dancers, and to other general readers.  SFDan 06:16, September 11, 2005 (UTC)


 * My point was that the "switching" was NOT arbitrary. I was trying to differentiate.  The article already defines "youth" (as being used in this context), and "teens" is an ordinary word, so there should be no need to define it.  Yes, I believe that both learning abiity and motivation make a difference.   If "teens" isn't an accurate characterization of the age range to which this particular statement applies, then perhaps something else can be substituted, but I think something like "younger people" is much too broad.   Shimon, in your experience, what ages have you seen being successfully "pulled through"? Joe Dehn

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