Talk:Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters/Archive 1

Question about ¨Impossible Moves¨
It is true that the Main Characters use some special moves that are not permitted or are imposible? For exaple, Joey's Fire Swordman that is yellow-coded instead of being a fusion monster.


 * In the anime, Flame Swordsman isn't a fusion monster. The Duelist Kingdom arc of the anime was made before the real-world card game existed, and for some reason Flame Swordsman was changed to a fusion for the real game. 68.47.234.131 07:22, 5 February 2006 (UTC)


 * They did it throughout the series, just like they invented cards just for the show(the fairy tale based deck in the Grand Championship arc for example). They did it because they wanted to make it more exciting, thus they did things that wouldn't be permitted in the real card game. TJ Spyke 23:19, 17 June 2006 (UTC)


 * In Duelist Kingdom, yes. There were many, many moves like that. However, in Battle City, some rules are changed so less of these happen. However, if they did, it would mostly be because of a change of card. (For example Kaiba once activated "Virus Cannon, a trap card, without placing it face-down first. But, in Japan, this was possible because it was a magic card.) Eventually, by the fifth season, it is almost the same. 67.175.150.153 15:48, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Question about the English version changes
"removing references to the 2003 Invasion of Iraq"

When was there ever a reference to the Iraq invasion in the original version?

Yes, Yugi as he was walking across the city during the battle city tournament he saw on a giant jumbo screen filled with tanks, and a man named "Saddam Johlen".

If it was during Battle City, that would have been in 2002: a whole year before the Invasion of Iraq. Geg 00:02, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

"changing the setting of the country from Japan to United States" I don't think it is clear that Domino is or isn't in Japan but in the Waking the Dragons storyline they seem to make a big deal about going to America to visit Pegasus at his company's headquarters and they have subsequent adventures there. In the Japanese version where did this part of the series take place?

Domino City's probably in Japan, considering what was said earlier. 71.111.215.224 21:38, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Hiatus? No.
Matty-chan, take a look at the [http://kidswb.warnerbros.com/web/home/home.jsp Kids' WB! website]. Notice the schedule for February 11? Notice that Yu-Gi-Oh! has not been replaced by a second airing of Johnny Test? 68.47.234.131 07:25, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, they changed the info today. But please, don't jump the gun with predictions before they're verified. 68.47.234.131 19:02, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Late response, but I knew that as WBDC.com said so, as did a commercial on Kids' WB! In it, Raimundo and Kimiko from Xiaolin Showdown were hosting and describing the morning schedule and I didn't hear YGO on it, but Rai said, "A full hour of Johnny Test!" Matty-chan 13:35, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Links
Please remove the red links in this page, especially near the bottom. They don't work. Nate 01:24, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

VANDALISM!
Someone keeps trying to change how long Yugi's been away to the Japanese date taking priority! It's the English version of Wikipedia! English version takes priority! I even said if he did it, it would be treated as vandalism unless further debate was discussed here! I'm going to report him to do something about it! Matty-chan 13:43, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

I see we have another vandal. I clearly warned them to stop making the Japanese version take priority, but I just reported them. Matty-chan 21:27, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

The English anime says 5,000 years, but I think the English manga says 3,000. And as far as the main YGO series goes, WP uses the English manga. My bad, if it's true; but I'm not positive. Danny Lilithborne 22:03, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

They use the English manga in articles about the manga. This is an anime article. Matty-chan 02:10, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah, good point ^_^ Danny Lilithborne 02:16, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Hm, maybe an administrator has to protect this page so no vandalism. Iswatch19 10:58, 9 September 2006

That's only if it gets REALLY out of hand. Matty-chan 22:51, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Question
You know any fansub groups that does the yugioh second series?Shirleybiscuit
 * Wikipedia is not a soapbox. This is not a place for that. This is for discussion of the article itself, not the subject of the article. Matty-chan 04:09, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Yugiohjplogo.jpg
Image:Yugiohjplogo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 11:43, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Rename?
Wouldn't it make more sense for this article to be called "Yu-Gi-Oh! (Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters)" or something similar (maybe just 'Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters'), as in Yu-Gi-Oh! media and release information? 'Second series' almost seems like 'second season' which is slightly confusing. It's not as if the series hasn't been given a distinctive name of its own. Also the article states that the term 'second series' is a fan name - and doesn't even provide a citation. Any thoughts? EvilRedEye 12:29, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Many people (especially fans of the English dub) don't know about the origional series and would not search for "Yu-gi-oh (seocnd series)." I think the title should be named "Yu-gi-oh! Duel Monsters," but I don't want to change the title unless a lot of people agree with me. Samatsuta (talk) 03:05, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

some story arc or saga is missing (between Battle City and Virtual World)
when they arrive at the tower of alcatraz (I don't know if this was the japanese name or someone made this name), they fight some kind of tower... duel tower? that's the arc that is missing in this ..... and it will be cool to indicate what story arcs are completely filler from the manga 189.129.85.81 12:14, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * You're right, the Duel Tower/Alcatraz arc is missing. I'll add a section about it.

Redone
I think the whole Yu-Gi-Oh! section is in need for a serious makeover. Everything is mixed up and confusing. Not to mention there is a lack of pictures. Yu-Gi-Oh the first season should be in a seperate section not mixed together with Duel Monsters. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nightmarexoxx (talk • contribs)
 * Not sure what your problem is. Pictures were previously removed because they violated fair-use policy.  As for the "first season", I fail to see how Duelist Kingdom is any different from the rest of the story, other than the odd rules.  If you're talking about the Toei series, that already has its own article, because it is a distinct and different series from Duel Monsters. JuJube (talk) 02:46, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

False information?
The article claims that "Duel Monsters picks up its focus from where the earlier series leaves off, roughly corresponding to the eighth volume of the manga series." As far as I know this simply isn't true, the only part of the first story that has anything to do with Duel Monsters is episode one and two (how Yugi put together the Millennium Puzzle, how Yugi and Jounochi/Joey became friends, and some of Tea/Anzu's backround story). Also, I've only read five of the origional manga books and already the plot line is completely different, so I don't really understand how the DM series could corrospond to volume eight. Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't want to make any bad changes! Samatsuta (talk) 03:12, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Hm? I think you're thinking of the wrong series.  DM begins with the Kaiba/Yugi duel, and the Millennium Puzzle is already put together. JuJube (talk) 04:03, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Changing the layout
Does anyone mind if I change the format of the plot section? I want to give it clearer sections and make it look less like a list, and maybe rewrite some arc descriptions to add detail. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Samatsuta (talk • contribs) 04:47, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

3,000 or 5,000
The year 5,000 years ago in the dub anime was a dubbing error by 4Kids (4kids thought IT WAS THE YEAR 3,000 B.C not 3,000 YEARS AGO). It should only use the manga year/information (sense WE use the Japanese names for Yugi, Anzu, Honda, Jounochi). We should use the manga information sense 4kids didn't follow the manga information for their dub. 4kids changed the story and storyline for the anime. (O&#39;erTheRampardos (talk) 16:59, 31 March 2008 (UTC))
 * Did you even read the adjacent comment before you made the change? This article is about the ANIME, so English version takes precedence. JuJube (talk) 00:11, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Merge proposal
Yu-Gi-Oh! Capsule Monsters is more of a story arc like Waking the Dragons or Dawn of the Duel than a mini-series. If you look on the official site, http://www.4kids.tv/show/yugioh/episodes, the twelve Capsule Monster episodes are listed as being season 5 episodes between the Grand Championship and Dawn of the Duel arcs. I suggest that the Capsule Monsters page be merged into Yu-Gi-Oh! (2000 TV series) with a summary added to the plot section like the other arcs; in addition adding the Capsule Monsters episode list to List of Yu-Gi-Oh! media between Grand Championship and Dawn of the Duel episodes. FallenWings47 (talk) 18:26, 18 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Also, the Capsule Monster compilation movies have been listed under "other releases" on the 2000 TV series page for a while now anyway. FallenWings47 (talk) 18:28, 18 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Thing is, Capsule Monsters is an American creation, unlike the rest of the show. It was promoted as a different series in the US on its initial airing. But hey, I'm fine either way. Matty-chan (talk) 01:14, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * That's true. I do remember reading somewhere that it hasn't been released in Japan. What do you think about it? I mean, what are your exact thoughts on this? FallenWings47 (talk) 02:52, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, I can see why it would have its own article, because it may be considered a different series given that its production company is different and it's not really canon, and only 4Kids seems to list it as part of the 2000 series. However, we do have the "English version takes priority" rule, so that could be another issue. I'll have to think about it. Matty-chan (talk) 16:05, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * All right, please do. Also, for curiosity's sake, could you explain to me how it's not canon? FallenWings47 (talk) 16:26, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Any events of it will have no bearing on the later-set episodes, as it was made by a company different to the original makers. I'm not completely sure but in this case I don't think it was ever even mentioned again, even in the 4Kids dub. Akata (talk) 16:39, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, it aired after the Dawn of the Duel had ended, so I wouldn't expect that it would. Other than that though, it's not like it conflicts with anything that happens in the series, so I think it could be canon. FallenWings47 (talk) 16:44, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I guess it comes down to a difference of opinion, at least according to Canon (fiction). Given the other blunders and changes 4Kids has made in dubbing Yūgiō, as well as other changes they've made to other shows which have been later contradicted, I don't trust anything made by 4Kids as canon. It is true that it may not contradict anything, but that may be true about some fanfiction about the series, yet no-one would consider those canon, since they are completely unrelated to the original company. Akata (talk) 17:21, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Well this is a bit different then that, being 1) it's made by 4Kids, 2) it's distributed by Funimation, 3) it has the original voice cast, and 4 being the fact that no events in Capsule Monsters contradict any event in Yu-Gi-Oh! (2000 TV series). It is completely likely after watching the episodes that the story could be incorporated into the overall one of the series. I suppose you're right though, it does kind of come down to a difference of opinion. FallenWings47 (talk) 17:30, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Article Title
Will people just please stop moving the page!?? It's fine the way it is. Besides, people seemed to have agreed on "renaming" the article "Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters," so please, just leave it this way. If there seems to be a problem for some reason, we need to discuss it here or see an administrator, not run off and do whatever we think is best. LightandDark2000 (talk) 06:17, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I've been trying to find out for a long time why I couldn't put the exclamation point at the end of the "Yu-Gi-Oh" part without an error message coming up, but now that I found a solution, things should be okay. Magicperson6969 (talk) 03:00, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Really? It could possibly be due to a couple of double redirect problems, or the fact that the target page already exists. LightandDark2000 (talk) 23:50, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

The article titles are supposed to reflect the English releases (why Case Closed is there and not at Detective Conan). This series is titled Yu-Gi-Oh! in the West, not Duel Monsters. The title is completely inappropriate as per the MOS. WhisperToMe (talk) 12:56, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe "Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters" is the best title to use per WP:NATURAL. The naming policy says to use an alternative name rather than a parenthetical disambiguator if there is an alternative name that is commonly used.  In this case, I think the name "Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters" is used commonly enough in English that it should be used, rather than a disambiguator.  I don't see anything in the MOS that would suggest that the name shouldn't be used (obviously, if just "Yu-Gi-Oh!" was available, that would be the name to use, but it isn't available). Calathan (talk) 13:26, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
 * There's another way to disambiguate, and it's by using the year. The first TV series was from 1998. The second, from 2000. Also remember that reliable published sources written in English and not Google searches are the standard, so therefore I'm sure sourcing overwhelmingly favors just "Yu-Gi-Oh!". Natural disambig usualy refers to: "English language" and "English people" versus "English (language)" and "English (people)". WhisperToMe (talk) 17:00, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Of course using the year is another way to disambiguate . . . I'm not quite sure why you brought that up as if it was non-obvious, since isn't the whole point of this discussion to decide between the alternatives of using the year and using "Duel Monsters"? I'm saying that I think policy suggests that we shouldn't use the year to disambiguate when there is an alternative name that can be used instead.  Contrary to what you seem to be suggesting, WP:NATURAL is not saying just to not put the same words in parenthesis when they could be used without parenthesis.  You are pointing to one example at WP:NATURAL while ignoring the actual instructions that example goes with.  The actual instructions say to use an alternative name when one exists and is in common use.  Also, the naming guidelines do recommend using a search engine test to determine if a name is widely used (though they recommend Google Books or Google News, rather than a plain Google search).  I'm seeing "Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters" used for the second anime series in books when I search for it in Google Books.  I think it is used often enough and is recognizable enough that it should be used in this case, rather than using the year. Calathan (talk) 17:36, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The example should define under what circumstances the guideline applies, Calathan. We have to use the MOS as a guide too, and its instructions are clear. When it says "though they recommend Google Books or Google News, rather than a plain Google search" you know the results will be very different. Also because we're trying to determine an English title we can ignore anything in Spanish, French, Indonesian, etc. Also anything self-published can be excluded too.
 * For "Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters" in Google Books we have:
 * Beck, Jerry. The Animated Movie Guide. p. 322.
 * Ladd, Fred. Astro Boy and Anime Come to the Americas: An Insider's View of the Birth of a Pop Culture Phenomenon. McFarland, January 1, 2009. p. 115.
 * That's it. Anything "Yu-Gi-Oh!" referring to the anime would be far greater. Now as for Google News (remember forum comments and non-reliable sources are also excluded so I am not including Neoseeker, Kidzworld, etc) and also make sure each source uses it in the right context:
 * "4Kids Stops Streaming Japanese Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters." Anime News Network. August 22, 2009.
 * "Yu-Gi-Oh! 10th Anniversary Anime's Footage Streamed (Updated)." Anime News Network. December 18, 2009. "The movie will feature the main heroes of all three TV Tokyo anime series: Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters' Yuugi Mutou, Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monster GX's Judai Yuki, and the ongoing Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D's Yūsei Fudō."
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 17:40, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I saw over 400 results in Google Books when I searched. Were the others really all not relevant?  Also, I think everyone is in agreement that just "Yu-Gi-Oh!" is the most common name, but that name is already in use for another article.  In choosing between using "Yu-Gi-Oh!" with parenthetical disambiguator or using "Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters", the question isn't whether "Yu-Gi-Oh!" is more common then "Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters", but whether "Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters" is a commonly used name (since just using "Yu-Gi-Oh!" is simply not possible as that name is in use).  Anyway, I'm still of the opinion that policy favors "Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters" over "‎Yu-Gi-Oh! (2000 TV series)" in this case.  Hopefully some more people will weigh in so that a consensus can be reached. Calathan (talk) 17:54, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
 * You have to check results by hand to make sure they are not self-published and come from reliable publisher. Often Wikipedia articles are self-published by iUniverse or whatever. Those don't count. You also have to put "Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters" in quotes to ensure that the exact phrase comes up. You have to make sure that they are written in English. Also keep in mind the article title doesn't necessarily have bearing on what is used in the article. Within this article we could call the TV show Yu-Gi-Oh! anyway. Why have a Japanese title when the English title is going to be used in the text?? WhisperToMe (talk) 18:22, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Contrary to what you say, I don't think the intent of using a search engine test is to review all results by hand (for some searches, there would be millions of results). Instead, the intent is to get a general impression of how often something is used.  However, from your reply, it did sound like you were looking at the results individually, which is why it surprised me that you were able to rule out over 400 books in only 4 minutes (though maybe it was possible with more refined searches).  When you ask "why have a Japanese title", my whole point is that I think Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters is sometimes used in English, and is used enough in English that it is preferable to "‎Yu-Gi-Oh! (2000 TV series)".   The actual Japanese title is 遊☆戯☆王デュエルモンスターズ according to the article, which no one is suggesting we use. Calathan (talk) 18:34, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
 * 1. You have to vet the results. The idea is to check what reliable sources in English are doing. If you get many non-reliable self-published sources or if you get non-English sources, you must throw them out. When searching "Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters" on Google News I got many non-English sources and sources that are not reliable. On Google Books I got many self-published copies of Wikipedia articles. We can't in good conscience "sell" them as accurate results of a search engine.
 * 2. Now, I did realize that the results count was 464 and I overlooked the other pages. However the first page had many results from MobileReference and LLC Books. The latter are mirrors of Wikipedia pages. I'm not sure of the reputability of the former, which is http://www.mobilereference.com/ - I'd like to see its publishing policies. I'll check other pages and get back other results of books I know are from reputable publishers.
 * 3. The "Japanese title" counts as the title of the work as it was released in Japan in the Japanese language. The "English title" counts as the title of the work as it was released in the English language no matter what country it is (United States, Singapore, or bilingual manga released in Japan or China). 遊☆戯☆王デュエルモンスターズ and Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters both count as the Japanese title.
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 18:53, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

More results: WhisperToMe (talk) 18:56, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Lent, John A. Comic Art in Africa, Asia, Australia, and Latin America Through 2000: An International Bibliography. Greenwood Publishing Group. p. 160.
 * Steiff, Josef and Tristan D. Tamplin. (editors) Anime and Philosophy: Wide Eyed Wonder. p. 280.
 * Yu-Gi-Oh! (1998) and Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters are counted as separate works and are named as such
 * Gill, Bill. Pojo's Yu-GI-Oh! Annual 2005. Triumph Books. p. 16. "First airing in Japan in April 2000, Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters was the second animé (Japanese Cartoon) adaptation of Kazuki Takahashi's manga (Japanese Comic Book). After TOEI Animation's early storylines failed to impress fans, TV Tokyo took over the show." - However the same work uses English names of characters "Weevil" "Rex Raptor" etc. So it may have been said in the context of a Japanese title, and usually in this work the show is referred to as "Yu-Gi-Oh!"