Talk:Yugoslav Left/Archive 1

Untitled
unhappy with Milosevic's party turning away from Yugoslavism ideals -- not very relevant, actually SPS and JUL had hardly any differences, exxcept for facade ideology. thus, if one got irritated by Milosevic' U-turn, one joined Radical Party of Serbia, rather than JUL, which was actually a puppet praty similar to SED's puppets in East Germany. --Constanz - Talk 07:15, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Student org
I recall that JUL, at least a few years back, had a students organization. It wa called University left or something like that. Anyone know? --Soman 12:50, 17 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I may be able to find out if my friends over there know about it. Cheers, Asterion 01:21, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Your poor understanding of politics
I suggest you pay attention to other editors' remarks, especially when these are more in the subject than you. You repeat all over again: 'and many high-ranked civil servants and army staff, unhappy with Milosevic's party turning away from Yugoslavism ideals. I removed this passage and you stubbornly re-added it. But I have already explained in the talk page that YUL was not an extremist party which readily took hardliners from SPS. It was just as nationalist as Socialist Party was. The thing is that Milosevic just wanted to show his own party more moderate than it really was and that's why a new place was necessary for some hard-line nationalists. Neiher were there any strategical political disagreements between Milosevic (SPS) and his wife (YUL) as it concludes from your edits.

Most of my information is taken there [], a link that you so stubbornly censor from the page.

This coincided with Milosevic's party turn to socialdemocracy, at the time of its failed application to join the Socialist International. -- this passage makes little sense, as only two (out of 50? 100?) SI members recognised serb socialists as soc dem. Your notion is completely irrelevant. According to Free Serbia, 'all others (over 160 parties from over 130 countries) voted against. With this decision, unusually (for SI) hard and unpleasant letter was sent to SPS, in which it is accused for ethnic nationalism, creating wars and dissolution of former Yugoslavia and suffering of people. Since then SPS has built relations only with obscure communist parties around the world.'

It was considered a all-Yugoslavia party, as opposed to Slobodan Milošević's Socialist Party of Serbia (SPS), which had only a Serbian base (the SPS did not run in Montenegro, the Socialist People's Party of Montenegro or SNP, was its partner in the Federal Assembly). This paragraph shows your ignorance of the matter: according to my source, in Montenegro YUL got just a few thousand ballots [in 1996/7 election] (less than there were signs on their candidates' lists). Bulatovic (as President, later appointed to be Prime Minister of Yugoslavia by Slobodan Milošević after losing Montenegrin pres el) and Djukanovic (as Prime Minister) collaborated closely with Milosevic, and their Democratic_Party_of_Socialists_of_Montenegro was little more than regional branch of SSP. --Constanz - Talk 08:50, 17 March 2006 (UTC)


 * You have based the whole article and lifted several sentences from the so-called Free Serbia website, which is not neutral and is factually inaccurate in many respects. I did not remove the link to that website, as you insist on saying, I simply removed your duplicated insertion, as the link was already there and there is no point in using footnotes for such a short article (refer to wikipedia guidelines if you are still unsure). Reading your user page, it is clear you are not neutral: Just because you "oppose all forms of marxism", it does not mean you can use Wikipedia for your very own anti-marxist version of things.


 * Reading your user page, it is clear you are not neutral do not get ridiculous, I am an anti-communist -- true! But you are a supporter of Socialist Party of Serbia, but do we really conclude from this fact that you are a biased editor? I do "oppose all forms of marxism", and you support some forms of it, what's the relevance? And Reading your user page, I may repy that you have been blocked for ignoring Fair use and Civility, (which I've not been), is it an argument here? --Constanz - Talk 11:22, 23 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Your understanding of Serbian and Yugoslav politics is -to say the less- very poor. Not only you confuse Đukanović's DPS with Milošević's allies in Montenegro (the Socialist People's Party or SNP) but continuosly confuse the meaning of the term yugoslavism with extremism or extreme nationalism, when it clearly refer to the opposite.


 * I rely on wikipedia:Momir Bulatović (born September 21, 1956) is a former President of Montenegro and Prime Minister of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. He was leader of the Socialist People's Party. Momir_Bulatovi%C4%87


 * On Đukanović: From 1991 until 1997 he was one of the chief supporters and executors of Slobodan Milošević's policies. Montenegro-wide roundup of Muslim refugees from Bosnia and their subsequent handover to forces of Bosnian Serbs happened while Djukanovic was Prime Minister.. So, Dukanovic was an ally of Milosevic for years, don't accuse me of confusing Đukanović with Milošević's allies in Montenegro, when Dukanović actually used to be one.--Theseus aka Constanz - Talk 11:13, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

He lost presidential elections in Montenegro in October 1997, and was appointed to be Prime Minister of Yugoslavia by Slobodan Milošević on May 18, 1998, to replace Radoje Kontić.''


 * JUL received over 20% of the votes in the first round of the 1996 elections. Because the nature of the FRY electoral system and the outcome of the second (and third round), the results were not in proportion. "All-Yugoslavia" means it decided to run in both republics, as opposed to the Serbian Socialist Party, which only ran in Serbia for obvious reasons.


 * I read with interest your personal views on JUL being created as a vehicle to portray SPS as middleground too. However, please note that Wikipedia is not the place for original research. Citing sources and avoiding original research are inextricably linked: the only way to verifiably demonstrate that you are not doing original research is to cite reliable sources which provide information that is directly related to the article, and to adhere to what those sources say.


 * Citing sources is really important, that's why I gave reference to freeserb page, which was the basis of YUL page as I created it (and remains ever since). If you can refer to an original research, then pls note it here. A for the thesis of YUL being created as a vehicle to portray SPS as middleground, I was merely refering to freeserb page, where this idea was clearly expressed. --Theseus aka Constanz - Talk 11:24, 23 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Despite all this, I am glad that you created the article. You must understand this does not mean you own it.


 * Regards, Asterion 01:15, 19 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Constanz, the external link to "FreeSerb" website is still there. No one is deleting or censoring it. Asterion 16:22, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't claim it's been deleted.--Constanz - Talk 16:33, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Jul.PNG
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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:14, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Tense
This article is partly in the past (... was a party) and partly present (its social base is ...). Should be consistently one or the other - which one depends whether it still exists.86.173.228.125 (talk) 22:58, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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