Talk:Yugoslavism

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page (already) moved.   A rbitrarily 0   ( talk ) 16:02, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Yugoslav nationalism → — More common. Scholar: Books: Web: ◅PRODUCER  ( TALK ) 16:55, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed--R-41 (talk) 03:31, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Note to the person that removed it: Yugoslavists supported unification of Bulgaria into a Yugoslavia
As said in the headline.--R-41 (talk) 02:57, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Assimilation
Surveys and reports can never clarify beliefs of people, only leading figures. And it clearly can never have been that all/most Serbs favoured denouncing their identities in favour of a united ethnicity. If however it was suggested by Serbia's key figures then there is no need to present it as "two splintering factions" nor give special mention to "Croats and non-Serbs". In so far as non-Serb forms an umbrella group, Croats are included. So, many Serb figures suggested an all-out Yugoslav race that their monarchy should lead - this was opposed by the rest of the nation who preferred to preserve their identities. Very simple. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 18:06, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Yugoslav/South Slav
The page refers to "Yugoslavism", a political ideology of the early 20th century advocating unity amongst South Slav peoples, and "Yugoslavs", a nationality not-then-born. So it would be more accurate to talk of South Slavs when talking about the peoples prior to the creation of the state; To say otherwise creates a false picture of the circumstances then. So I’ve changed it. Xyl 54 (talk) 20:03, 9 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I concur. There is some precedent to using such terminology: the Yugoslav Academy of Sciences and Arts existed since 1866 and the Yugoslav Committee came to be in the 1910s, but those were still particular group names, not nations, before 1929 when the Kingdom of Yugoslavia formally came to be. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 21:22, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Merging information
Just a heads-up to anyone interested that this is a duplicate stencil on my part.

Various parts of the Croatia during World War I article need to be merged onto this article to balance the actualities. The two articles, although truthful, present diametrically opposing angles of a situation regarding the mood of a nation at the time in question. I can get round to it myself but don't have the time these days. If someone wants to start before me, then be my guest. --Juicy Oranges (talk) 15:10, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Missing cites
The article cites "Djokic 2003" and "Ramet 1995", but such sources cannot be fined in the bibliography. --Governor Sheng (talk) 11:53, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the tip! Fixed--Tomobe03 (talk) 19:40, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

national oneness
Do we have a reference for this specific translation? Because narodno jedinstvo could easily as well have been translated as people's unity. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 08:21, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
 * , yes - many. For one, the reference supporting that particular sentence (Nielsen, p.20) does that explicitly. Another reference is p.110 of the same book. The term (national oneness) is also used in that particular context by Mark Biondich in Vladko Maček and the Croat Political Right, 1928-1941 (at p.209) . It is used repeatedly by Lampe and Mazower in Ideologies and National Identities: The Case of Twentieth-Century Southeastern Europe - at p.57 stating "narodno jedinstvo (national oneness)" to establish the translated term and the using the English version consistently. It is also used consistently by Ivo Banac in The National Question in Yugoslavia: Origins, History, Politics (in editions later than 1984) . For further examples of consistent use of the term see Yugoslavism: Histories of a Failed Idea, 1918-1992 (edited by D. Djokić), such as Djokić in (Dis)Integrating Yugoslavia chapter (pp.138, 141, 145 etc.), South Slav Intellectuals and the Creation of Yugoslavia by Ljubinka Trgovcevic (p.222 where she says "At its core was the notion of 'national oneness' (narodno jedinstvo) of Serbs and Croats (and Slovenes).") etc. There's also, for instance Aleksandar Ignjatović From Constructed Memory to Imagined National Tradition: The Tomb of the Unknown Yugoslav Soldier (1934-38) article  at p.626, and Srdja Pavlović's Literature, Social Poetics, and Identity Construction in Montenegro  at p.138. None of these sources refer to that concept as "people's unity".--Tomobe03 (talk) 09:55, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify, 1984 Banac uses untranslated italicised narodno jedinstvo only. The English term appears to have been added to a later edition.--Tomobe03 (talk) 09:58, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

Yugoslav nationalism
I have recently removed unreferenced addition by an IP editor who added unreferenced claim that Yugoslavism is sometimes referred to as Yugoslav nationalism. The addition was only made in the lede and unreferenced.

While it is certainly true that some sources refer to "Yugoslav nationalism" and claim it died (for example Lampe & Mazower here at p. 267), there seem to be hardly any explicitly equating the two. A cursory search of google books and jstor to determine sources which mention "Yugoslavism" and "Yugoslav nationalism" in the same book or article turn up very few results and even some of those contradict this claim (for example Cviic says "there is no Yugoslav nationalism" at p. 415, and Bougarel  at p. 103 uses the term in scarequotes only). Other sources like Troch (here at p. 105) use both terms but do not necessarily explicitly equate them.

This being said, I'm afraid saying explicitly that the two are the same without a source explicitly supporting the claim, and with others contrdicting it would be original research. I don't mind including such information - in the body prose, certainly not the lede alone, and certainly with good references backing the claim explicitly - but there seem to be none. It is logical to think that people at least sometimes referred to Yugoslavism as Yugoslav nationalism (regarless if the labal is accurate or not), but I'd prefer to leave it to readers to draw that conclusion on their own considering the sources available.--Tomobe03 (talk) 01:37, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

Self-reverting - after more digging I found a ref and (re)added the information giving it due weight.--Tomobe03 (talk) 02:07, 2 November 2021 (UTC)