Talk:Yulia Tymoshenko Bloc

Move?
Would anyone object to moving this page to Yuliya Tymoshenko Bloc? It seems like a more natural translation, and is more meaningful alphabetically. &mdash;Michael Z. 2005-01-24 16:52 Z 


 * It should have the same spelling as the lady's own page. There don't seem to be clear transliteration guidelines for Ukranian and really the "most common spelling in the English media" is the best location for pages such as Yulia Tymoshenko and Viktor Yanukovych. Timrollpickering 12:12, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Affiliation Question
Just a question. If the Yulia Tymoshenko Bloc is Center-Left, why is it a member of the Center-Right European People's Party? I was just wondering that. I mean, I know Yulia Tymoshenko has stated that the party is based on Social Democracy, but one of the three main component parties is a right-wing party, they're members of the EPP, and most of the leaders her website has her pictured with are conservatives (Condoleeza Rice, Margaret Thatcher, Benjamin Netanyahu, etc.) Just wondering. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.50.151.8 (talk) 01:03, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Eastern Europeans do not view "left and right" the same way as people in Western Europe and North America would. It is kind of hard to explain. Starzaz (talk) 02:07, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess. I was just wondering, though, seeing as she has associated w/ all the people mentioned above (that was my post, by the way, just before I had an account) and she did speak at CPAC (not sure what year though). In the picture of her speaking at the CPAC, you can clearly see conservative radio host Laura Ingrahm on one side of her and former Rep/House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-TX) on the other. SpudHawg948 (talk) 10:49, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
 * She was just seeking support I guess, if The Democrats would have invited her she would have stood next too Ted Kennedy. We Europeans don't even have party's as conservative as the US politic party's, even The Democrats would be right wing here (all over Europe). Don't know Laura Ingrahm but I already know she didn't read the BYuT program :) BTW I saw photo's of Yulia where she stood next too Hillary Clinton (on Yulyu's official site)  Mariah-Yulia (talk) 20:44, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
 * The assumption that BYT has centre-left positions, had 3 sources, all by one author, and actually, refs nr. 3 and 5. were the same article. I suggest that we remove the notion 'centre-left', as it is inaccurate (or at best controversial).--Miacek (talk) 17:07, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Yulia Tymoshenko's party is rather centre-right, as is her bloc in corpore. As for the social democratic party that is also part of this bloc: it is likely to be what some authors call generally democratic organization in a post-Soviet country, regardless of the party's official centre-left affiliation.--Miacek (talk) 18:16, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Hello Miacek. First of all thanks for your edits about Ukrainian political party's it is nice to know that not only me and Timberframe have an interested in/edit them so the change they become one sides as decreased. You deleted the "position" part of the Ukrainian party's infobox because they where to much based on guesswork, I agree but now I have the idea you start to guess as well. True surrounding ethical question (gay marriage etc) BYuT seems to be conservative. But BYuT is also against the selling of Ukrainian farmlands, you can call that conservative but you can also call it left-wing. In the USA it would be considered extremely left wing, in W-Europe (where I live) left wing. Maybe where you live it is called conservative. The Ukrainians I spoken too considered BYuT left of Our Ukraine. Wikipedia doesn't seem a suitable place to determine if a party is left or right, cause that seems to tell more about the editors then the party's. Mariah-Yulia (talk) 20:28, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * A few thoughts on the subject. First, while I support being bold, it's important to remember that wiki is also rooted firmly on consensus; I think it would have been courteous to discuss such a significant change to the infobox template first, before making the change.  That said, let's have the discussion now and see where it leads.
 * Secondly I agree that Wiki certainly isn't the place to determine if a party is left or right. Wiki content must be verifiable and indeed many of the position statements were backed up by references.  But in this case, as Mariah-Yulia and others have illustrated, there isn't consensus in the published material as to how to apply "left" and "right" to the Ukrainian context, nor about where blocs / parties stand in relation to each other on the left-right spectrum.  So using left-right terms does not convey an unambiguous understanding and therefore cannot be verified, even if you provide a reference.
 * I think it's more accurate and less ambiguous to categorise the party's ideology in terms which have more univerally understood meanings (communist, socialist, capitalist, conservative, or whatever) than to use left/right/centre. The infobox already does this, so on balance I support Miacek's removal of "position" from the infobox.
 * -- Timberframe (talk) 21:27, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Is this true? http://www.fraza.com.ua/zametki/13.09.06/28335.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_White_Brotherhood —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.123.74.82 (talk) 11:28, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Yulia Tymoshenko's Parliamentary election
In 2005 Yulia was not elected Prime-minister she was appointed by the President. In 2006 the method of appointment was changed and Ukraine became a parliamentary democracy and the prime-minister for the first time was elected by the parliament.

In 2007 Yulia Tymoshenko received a swing of 8.24% in comparison their 2006 vote. Most of the swing (if not all) came as a result of consolidation of the vote in regions in which BYuT already was the leading party. This never the less was an impressive swing to her party. offical statistics, published by the Ukrainian Electoral Authority, indicate that most of the swing came from minor parties and a swing away from the Socialist Party and to a lesser exett Our Ukraine. In 2007, 27% of voters supported minor parties that received less then the 3% minimum threshold required. In 2007 minor parties (including the Socialist party on 2.86%) represented only 7% of the overall vote.

"Blocs of Viktor Yushchenko"
I've removed this sentence from the lead because it is largely meaningless, subjective and unsupported. -- Timberframe (talk) 11:48, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * What is meant by "Blocs of Viktor Yushchenko"? They should be named explicitly to avoid confusion and allow linking to their respective pages.
 * Both blocs, as described in this sentence, are eponymous so the consistency of their leadership is the same.
 * If "leaders" refers to the leadership team rather than specifically Yushchenko or Tymoshenko then the claim needs to be supported and its relevance explained.
 * Position may mean the roles of people in the bloc or it may mean the policy stances taken by the bloc. In eaither case the claim needs to be supported.


 * I got no problem with your changes. But to me the sentence the "Yulia Tymoshenko Bloc" which fought the 2007 parliamentary election. looks a bit wierd. It looks like they proteted against the election outcome. I thought political party's enter elections. Mariah-Yulia (talk) 19:42, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi Mariah-Yulia! I wish my Dutch were as good as your English! In this strange language we "fight" or "contest" elections. I agree it sounds combative or defensive, but that's where linguistic evolution has brought us. As an alternative we could say "participated in", perhaps that would be more easily understood by non-native readers. What do you think? By the way, thanks for all your input into Ukrainian affairs, although I contribute little I read lots and I'm always impressed with your dedication to the subject. -- Timberframe (talk) 20:29, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, you can find Ukrainian awards here:. Hahaha! Actually I appreciate your input too, you have more backing information then me. I only follow Ukr. politics since 2004. It isn't always fun or understandable to follow but I do think it is slowly becoming a mainstream/normal European democracy (unlike Russia or even Georgia...). I've got a key chain with a picture on it where Victor Y kisses Yulia T on her forehead. They obviously don't get along anymore. Do you know if they was a time they where real friends or was there relation always just business? By the way I think "participated in" is the best description!. All the best, Mariah-Yulia (talk) 21:17, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

BYuT and Party of Regions demonstrating together?
According to a picture aviable here supporters of BYuT and Party of Regions are picketing together against the Mayor of Kiev. — Mariah-Yulia (talk) 23:07, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The whole country is in a big mess politically.. They change their attitudes toward each other every month. But we'll know know soon enough what's going to happen though... —dima/talk/ 04:25, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

pictures here. Well (looking at it positively) at least they agree on something. Maybe it is a sign of Ukrainian politics becoming more European? — Mariah-Yulia (talk) 19:11, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Ukrainian Republican Party????
According to this book the Ukrainian Republican Party was never part of BYuT (Russian wikipedia does not mention this party as part of ByuT also); hence I removed it. —  Mariah-Yulia  • Talk to me!  23:23, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Book was wrong... —  Mariah-Yulia  • Talk to me!  00:26, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Yulia Tymoshenko Bloc
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Yulia Tymoshenko Bloc's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "tymoshenko.com.ua": From Yulia Tymoshenko: Ukraine's Gold-Plaited Comeback Kid, Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (September 23, 2008 ) From Ukraine without Kuchma:  

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 02:40, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Not sure how important this is...
Ex-governor of Kharkiv Oblast Arsen Avakov joins BYuT (Arsen Avakov personal website ). —  Mariah-Yulia  • Talk to me!  17:45, 30 June 2010 (UTC) + Open letter from Yulia Tymoshenko to Viktor Yanukovych regarding the seizure of Batkivshchyna Party offices. —  Mariah-Yulia  • Talk to me!  19:31, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

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