Talk:Yuna Kim/Archive 1

Biography assessment rating comment
The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Jreferee 23:40, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Recent changes
I made some significant changes and pleased to others have made further edits, but I don't agree with some of the changes.

First I'm not sure putting "Personal life" instead "Early Career" is necessarily a good idea. The short length of the section and the ending sentence of "She moved to Toronto, Canada in 2006 to train" seem very awkward. IMHO it should be something more along the line of "she moved her full-time training base to Toronto in 2006," which I think is more appropriate if you look at the information from the article. Also I think it's better to separate Kim's early career prior to the 2004-2005 season from the rest, especially as her career goes on further.

Speaking of the Toronto cricket club and Brian Orser, both are highly symbolic entities in the Canadian figure skating world, and I think putting in a word such as "famed" to emphasize such distinction is more than appropriate in this case.

Also I think describing her as "media figure" as opposed to "media darling" is a misnomer. Not only the nuance is quite different, but the media darling is more indicative of what was described in the referenced article. Furthermore Kim commented in a number of published interviews how comforting it is to be away from the media attention by training in Toronto I think a "celebrity" would be a far more accurate description than a "media figure," and not sure if it's necessary to remove the "media circus" part. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.212.21.99 (talk) 21:54, 17 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi. :) I split off Personal Life because that's the way some other skaters's articles are structured, with a seperate part for personal life, and I figured what with the way this article has been growing, it might be a useful section to have. I didn't keep the "early career" vs "late career" because I didn't think that the "career" section was long enough to need splitting, but I have no problem with a split being there. I would just like it to have some more information on her early career, i.e., before her Junior Grand Prix debut, so that her early career isn't just "she won nationals at age 12". As for the Cricket Club and Brian Orser, I removed the over description of "famed", etc, because, imho, on Wikipedia, famed = notable, and if they aren't notable, they don't have articles. Since they do have articles, they are notable. As for her position in the media, I don't like the terms "media darling" and "media circus" because they have an implied value judgement, which an encyclopedia should try to avoid. As for "media celebrity", I don't know, has she crossed over that much? I know she's a "sports celebrity", but I don't know that much about her status in South Korean media, other than the fact that she's done a lot of commercials. Some more sources and/or examples on this would be great. :) Kolindigo (talk) 22:35, 17 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the response. Hmm, I highly disagree on the notion that putting the qualifier "famed" implies "notable."  There is a huge difference between a symbolic figure and merely a notable one. For example Kim's choreographer David Wilson was a figure skater and is notable, but there's nothing extraordinary about him and thus does not deserve such qualification.  Orser on the other hand is one of best known and popular figure skater in Canadian history without any argument, and his list of achievements speaks for itself.  As much as an implied value judgment can be dangerous, I think it's going too far when one ignores the factual level of renown proven by the person's history.


 * Also "media circus" is actually not my word, but is taken straight from the referenced IFS article. Kim also briefly mentions the media attention she has gotten in her home country in that article as well.


 * My problem with the word "media figure" is that it is a more fitting description for a person whose job is in the media such as an announcer, a show host, etc, and yes, she's everywhere and everyone knows her now in the country. :) It would be helpful if I bring in references written in Korean, but I'm not sure how credible my translation would be.

Anti Yuna user
No personal attacks, OK? --Kjoonlee 14:18, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

War of Kolindigo and Wiest1989
user Kolindigo and user Wiest1989 Kim Yuna's wiki is not battleground. (talk) - Top on ice

Personal Life

"But after she won a gold medal in the Novice Ladies event at the 2002 Triglav Trophy, her overall training situation improved thanks to financial support from several Korean institutions." This is not accurate; she had financial difficulty until the first half of 2006. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rdspark7 (talk • contribs) 15:44, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Cleanup
This entire article needs a lot of clean-up. I am starting to do some now. Please pitch in and help. This article will receive a lot of attention during Worlds and in the run-up to the Olympics. At the very least, it should be fully-referenced.

To the edit-warring users, I remind them that this is the English Wikipedia: please use English. If you do not know English well enough to contribute to the English language Wikipedia, your contributions are welcome at the Korean Wikipedia or the Japanese Wikipedia. Kolindigo (talk) 22:49, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I have corrected many grammatical errors for the last a few days. I will add contents on Kim in August because I will have been very tied up until after July.--Chunwook (talk) 04:12, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Season 2008/2009
Kim was the only lady skater whose triple-triple combination had been recognized by the judges in both the short program and the free skating in the 2008-2009 season.

That is not right!!! Sarah Hecken (Germany) did a Triple-Triple Combination at Junior Worlds in the Short and in the Long Programm with positive GOEs! http://www.isuresults.com/results/wjc2009/index.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.135.223.145 (talk) 15:16, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps that means Kim was the only "senior" ladies' skater whose combination judges recognized.--Chunwook (talk) 04:37, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Improvements to this article
I went ahead and copy edited the article. Removed peacock language and references that linked to Youtube videos. Please find news article replacements for those. Also, I'm not sure if it's completely relevant to list every jump she did in a competition unless it is remarkable for a female skater. I removed breaks in the references that made it difficult to read! Anyway, here are some ideas to take into consideration for the main editors (or any) to look into: Expanding the personal life section. What are her sibling(s) names? Her parents? What are they occupations? What is she studying in University? Also, I suggest removing some of the images and keeping only a few as there are too many images here. It is redundant to keep mentioning she broke the world record when she's just improving every year; is there a better way to say this? Anyway, those are just a few things I noticed while going through this article.  on camera (t)  03:41, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Photos
Does anyone else think there are one too many photos in the article? I want to remind users that this isn't a fansite or a gallery, it's an biographical article. Byxbee (talk) 02:30, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Funny observation: The article on Jesus only has fourteen photos on its page, and Kim's page has 13 so far. Byxbee (talk) 02:34, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I think this article suffers from many problems, one of which is the over-abundance of images. I am also concerned about the possible copy-right infringement of File:YunaKim 2008SASP.jpg, File:Camel yuna1.jpg, File:Camel yuna2.jpg, and File:Yuna Kim 2008SAFS.jpg, two of which have a watermark on them and the other two look like professional photographs. As far as the abundance of legal photographs, I am also concerned that it seems like users are over-uploading images from sites that have allowed Wikipedia to use their images. It's one thing to take useful images from a photographer for use to describe an element or specific performance, it's another to take what seems like one or two images per competition for no reason other than to have them. What's to be done with all these images? Do we stick them all onto the page to let the donor know that we really are using all of the ones we take? Do we keep shoving the older ones off in favor of newer ones? The older ones don't just disappear. And all that leads to us having too many unnecessary images. I think it's just not useful. Either it crowds the page, or it wastes the donated images for no good reason. Kolindigo (talk) 06:09, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * A lot of good points. I don't want to start unfound accusations, but I'm fairly certain the images you mentioned are not original works by the users who uploaded them, and are probably being used without permission. It's fair to say that those users have a history of edit warring and not following Wikipedia guidelines. But besides the legality of some photos, the article is just crowded with too many photos. I agree that future photos would probably replace or be added alongside with the rest of the photos, and overwhelms the article with an excess of unimportant photos. I mean come on, should there really be three photos of Kim doing her bent-leg camel?! Which, might I add, are all from the same angle.


 * For now, I'm in favor of removing unimportant photos and the photos with fishy licensing. To be honest, I find Wikipedia very complicating, but I'm looking into how I can get admins to question or delete some of the images. It would be great if the users who uploaded the photos would respond here in the talk page too, because they seem to ignore reason but doesn't hesitate for a second to RV an edit they don't agree with. I'm sure they're reading these comments too, because Kim's article is guarded like a hawk over her chicks. Byxbee (talk) 10:08, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

=
I don't LOL often, but I truly did when I saw the comment comparing popularity (photos anyway) to Jesus. I would agree that she is quite popular over here. I drank a Kim Yu-Na smoothy drink the morning of her gold medal performance. Now to my question. I was very impressed at how quickly her gold medal photo was put up here. Can anyone tell me how soon after her victory it was updated here? I wanted to use this statistic as an example in my university-level New Media Technology class. I tried to find the information via the history tab but I did not have luck. Thanks, Ken —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kenmorrison30 (talk • contribs) 08:22, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Improvements
Still reads like a skating resume, if anything it could look MORE like a fansite, doesn't look like the Korean version is any more elaborate than this one. This video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JQ8NCNyC6E gives a more dramatic version, though it might be hard to source. Bachcell (talk) 22:34, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Other names
According to NBC and CTV, she has been nicknamed as "Queen Yu-Na" ; according to CTV, when in North America, she prefers to be called "Yu-Na Kim", shouldn't this be added to the article? 70.29.210.242 (talk) 11:05, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

I found several articles with that nickname on it. http://www.nbcolympics.com/news-features/news/newsid=448445.html

http://www.ctvolympics.ca/figure-skating/news/newsid=53114.html

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/29935499/

Yes, I think this should be added in "2010 Winter Olympics" part, at least. No response from others for a while, though... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gusl13 (talk • contribs) 12:34, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Other improvements
I would want to also participate and add the detail information about the Sportswoman of the Year, and how that she was the first Asian woman to win this award. And also a brief information about her book. Jkwon218 (talk) 21:55, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Never finished off the Podium: Premature addition?
Shouldn't we wait until the conclusion of Yu-Na Kim's amateur career before putting the information about her 100% podium rate into wikipedia? Mind you, I don't want to jinx her (not that I'm superstituous). Please discuss the merit of including this information. Sydneyphoenix (talk) 12:24, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Further improvements
In response to the suggestions above about how the page looks too much like a resume and not like an encyclopedic entry (which I agree with), I have been incorporating trivia into relevant sections of prose on the page. I have received an unsigned comment on my talk page from RunnersHigh, who has also reverted one of my edits. I will repost and address the comment here where it's relevant:


 * What is the reason you deleted the section "Donation"? There are sources and links connected though? Why? Why on her birthday? Any reasonably reasonable reason you have, reply back plz. RunnersHigh (talk) 11:51, 5 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your comment, but I think it would be more helpful for all the editors of this page if we discussed improvements here and not on my personal Talk page. :) If you look closely at my edit, I didn't delete the Donation section, but incorporated it into a long prose paragraph in the 'Public Life and Endorsements' section, which is where it really belongs and adds the most value to the article. That is what you have now reverted.


 * I removed one or two of the items on the list because they were unreferenced. Most of the information was still there, just presented more engagingly and concisely. As per the guidelines of Wikipedia (such WP:SOURCE, WP:LIVING and WP:NPV), material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative or positive—should be removed. If you have any problem about the guidelines, then that is something to take up on the Talk page of those guidelines. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, but you could put a long Donations list on a fansite without any restrictions as to citing sources. :)


 * I understand that you reverted my edit because you took issue with it, but I hope you (and the other editors of this article) can see that it actually added to the article rather than taking away from it.


 * I will add that I had no idea it was anyone's birthday today, and that played no part in my decision to edit this article. If you look at my previous edits to this article, you will see that I have substantially added information to other sections as well editing 'Donations'. This article is very important but only has a C-class rating, so I am trying to apply some much-needed improvements. Let's work together on this common goal. :) Wikipage08 (talk) 12:33, 5 September 2010 (UTC)


 * It's really sorry. I would appreciate you if you reply it to me first. Anyway, I thought it's too long to include the section into another one. ;) --RunnersHigh (talk) 04:37, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

New section on criticism
The new section on recent criticism of Kim Yuna is backed up by five newspaper articles from two different Korean newspapers. Do not delete it without justification or discussion.

This is an encyclopedia article not a fan page. --Pmcalduff (talk • contribs) 10:32, 2 June 2012

I suggest you to work to confirm the validity of the criticism first. You may remember what caused the U.S. invasion of Iraq. "Weapons of mass destruction or WMD" lol.

Previously as I mentioned, the section included many faults from the beginning.

1. KAAP is not health officials at all but a small academic society.

2. Groundless criticism. (See below)

2-1. Professor Jung, graduated from Yonsei university, contributed a groundless column to an online newspaper "Pressian". If you can read Korean you may found some odd words. For example, "~ 하는 궁금증이 들었다". "~의도가 아닌가 싶다, "~하는건 아닌지" In English, "I have a curiosity whether~", "She may intended to do~", "Come near to doing ~". What he wrote was a fiction not an article. And he is well known in Korea as a malicious criticizer. His targets were "Ji sung Park, Chan ho Park, Seung yup Lee, Tae hwan Park, etc" and everyone knows why he is doing that.

Draw public attention and sell his books.

2-2. Yonsei University professor Hwang had an interview on a radio program and insisted "Yuna went just one day for the show", "Korea University may let student graduate even if they were not come to class.", "I'm working at University but I've never heard of any cyber curriculum for athletes at all. That's a lie out of whole cloth". "I don't understand why she is doing that teaching apprenticeship to obtain a teacher's license. She is trying to gather another license "

Now what were known from reporters, students and teachers of Jinseon girl's high school and people concerned with the educational affairs department of Korea University.
 * Yuna went to Jinseon girl's high school 19 days out of 19 days. 100%.
 * Yuna's lectures were evaluated from teachers and students very well prepared, easy to communicate and professional based on her experience.
 * Yuna's classmates said her attendance rate was more than over 90% from last year.
 * Korea University provides many cyber curriculum to those who train and compete in foreign country or armature athletes.
 * Teaching apprenticeship is not an optional but a required subject to graduate.

After the issues were reported to public and then facts were disclosed by many reporters, the radio program finally made an official apology to Yuna.

Long explanation but that's what happened and the fact IS. Still do you need to add the section? --RunnersHigh (talk) 12:56, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

FYI, Wikipedia has many policies and guidelines about encyclopedic content. These standards require verifiability, neutrality, respect for living people, and more. --RunnersHigh (talk • contribs) 14:29, 2 June 2012


 * The section that some editors have suggested has weighting & sourcing problems isn't in the article currently. Per WP:BLP, it can be restored if there is consensus for keeping it. Until then, it can be discussed here (without it being restored). --92.6.202.54 (talk) 18:49, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Articles and rinks

[English]
 * Radio host sorry to Kim yuna remark

[Korean]
 * A teacher of Jinseon girl's high school had an interview with CBS Radio and said "Yuna is doing her best on her teaching apprenticeship.
 * Students of Jinseon girl's high school nailed a lie to Professor Hwang, posting irrefutable pictures of Yuna's daily activities at school.
 * Sir, did you call Yuna's teaching apprenticeship as an one-shot show?
 * Prof, Hwang said "I didn't intend to criticize Yuna Kim. I just..."
 * Apology to Yuna who lives life to the full.
 * Was it a show? Reporters visited and verified Yuna's teaching apprenticeship at Jinseon girl's high school and found it's not a show.

[Korea University School Regulations]
 * Private rule on Students atheletes qualifications - Rule 5.3 describes how to take credit for athletes who trains and competes in foreign country.
 * Private rule on bachelor´s degree - Rule 18 describes required subjects of the Department of Education to graduate
 * Overall rules and regulations can be found at HERE. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RunnersHigh (talk • contribs) 04:44, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Again, I want you to show me your respect for living people. --RunnersHigh (talk) 01:02, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

I addressed the issue you brought up concerning the beer adds and dropped the part about her teaching practice and university attendance completely. If you still have a problem with the section feel free to discuss it here or add to it with verifiable information. Do not simply blank it. Pmcalduff (talk) 11:17, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

--RunnersHigh (talk) 03:49, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

I wanna make it clear, Pmcalduff. I didn't blank what you wrote simply at all. ;)

(Okay sorry.)

Thank you for taking my previous opinion but sorry for adding the same different section without waiting others and my answer. Didn't you protect the section until June 10 by yourself?

(Actually no. It was somones else who protected it.)

Anyway, let's go ahead.

In the article of "(107) Yu-na lashed over beer commercial", Kim Tong-hyung described Yuna as a spokeswoman of Hite as below. The latest buzz surrounding the 22-year-old surrounds her decision to be the spokeswoman of Hite, the best-selling brand of local beer.

Is she a spokeswoman or a spokesmodel?

and "Shin pointed out that professional athletes are banned from pitching alcoholic beverages in the United States." Could you give me your opinion on this as a citizen of the United States of America?

Let's see.
 * Ichiro, current MLB player of Seatle marinas advertised Kirin beer 2009.
 * Tracy McGraday, current NBA player of Atlanta Hawks advertised Chinese xuejin beer this year.
 * Anderson Silva, current UFC Middleweight Champion advertised Budweiser 2012.
 * Frank Edgar Thomas, former MLB legendary player, even established his own beer company and advertised it in person.

(Two of those are non American adds for non American beer. The other two are not TV commercials.  Unfortunately there are no laws in America concerning internet adds.)

(109) Group demands ban on sports stars’alcohol ads also insisted "in the United States professional athletes, such as MLB baseball players, are banned from advertising alcohol."

Really? Not at all as I wrote above and many leagues in the States are currently sponsored by lots of alcoholic companies. If you ever had been to any MLB stadium, you could find bottles and cups of beers anywhere with easy.

(Yes they sponsor alcohol heavily and alcohol is advertised at sporting events in America but that does not change the fact that athletes are not allowed to appear in TV adds for alcohol in the United States and in most other developed countries.)

(108) Yanking Yu-na out of beer ad is a "cupout column", "Enough of my shenanigans!" and "only Imagine" as he wrote.

IMHO, it's not an article but fiction which ISN'T neutral, factual and sientific at all. He is just glumbling, muttering and complaining over a celebrity who he never had met and interviewed.

(It's criticism which is what I said in the new section. If you think it is unfair please feel free to find a reliable news article that supports your opinion and add a sentence or paragraph showing that not everyone agrees with this criticism.)

(110) Not about Yu-na is mainly on Yuna's teaching apprenticeship. if you accepted my opinions and dropped the part about her teaching practice and university attendance completely, please remove the rink.

(Okay. fair enough.  It's been removed.)

Anyway, I respect your effort to find articles, have interest figure skater Yuna Kim and give us a chance to talk about it. ;)

Your turn. --RunnersHigh (talk) 15:28, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

(Of course nothing you have said changes the fact that Kim, Yuna has been and is being criticized for her appearance in these beer commercials. As a Korean you must be aware that the Korea legislators are taking this very seriously and that they are considering passing laws which will make athletes appearing in alcohol commercial illegal in Korea.  As the father of a twelve year old girl born and raised in Korea I hope they do it quickly.) Pmcalduff (talk) 06:51, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

--RunnersHigh (talk) 03:47, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply again.

'NOT everyone agrees with this criticism'.

'''Okay. Feel free to add something like this, along with the appropriate citations, to the section on criticism:'''

''Some people in Korea feel that this criticism is unfair do to the fact that there are other sports stars and celebrities promoting the sale of alcohol in TV commercials. They view this treatment as a double standard since they are not being criticized.''

'''Of course this is just a suggestion. Feel free to put it in your own words. I'll even help you with proofreading if you want.''' Pmcalduff (talk) 11:56, 7 June 2012 (UTC) --RunnersHigh (talk) 11:53, 7 June 2012 (UTC) Deal?
 * Some people -> Some media and people.
 * Add URLs below

'''That is fine although I would recommend "some people and media sources." '''Pmcalduff (talk) 12:44, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Reliable news article and a sentence or a paragraph. Titles and urls added as below.


 * "Yuna so called "Korea’s sweetheart" is NOW an adult - Double standard controversy on her beer commercial.
 * Apart from KAAP's double standard not referring any celebrities like Ji Sung Park and others who already advertised alcoholic beverages, the academy treated a lady, 22 years old and senior in Korea University, as a child. Even I agree on bad influence from celebs' alcoholic ad though, it's not fair to criticize an individual like that manner.
 * On the issue, principles and regulations on alcoholic ad must be discussed above all.


 * "OK! Ji Sung, NO! Yuna?" Double standard controversy on beer commercial.
 * There had been a few sports stars on alcoholic beverage ads but much more idols much more familiar to the public has been there already. Even if you felt concern for the bad influence from celebs' alcoholic ads, you need not to claim Yuna's responsibility that heavily.
 * If the ban on sports stars’ alcoholic beverages ad is needed, it's time for us to consider the influence not only from Yuna Kim but also from all idols, celeb and any other public characters either.


 * Sports stars have to do nothing but exercise?


 * It is hard to understand Professor Jung's unfair standard that under the situation that lots of entertainers are making beer commercials, only Yuna have to carry the can for beer ad. as a public figure.

Giving figures might help understand more quickly. If you're right and everyone agrees with the criticism, Yuna's favorable image, impact of advertisement and efficiency of advertisement must continue to decline.


 * CF Queen Yuna Kim danced in beer commercial and ..
 * She got Triple Crown as below
 * Favorable image: 1st Yuna Kim (9.11%), 2nd Su Hyun Kim (8.41%), 3rd Seung Ki Lee, 4th Joong Ki Song, 5th Tae Hee Kim
 * Impact of advertisement: 1st
 * Efficiency of advertisement: 1st
 * And on CPCM (Cost per Consumer's Mind: The lower the better)
 * 1st ₩313 Prospect W (Main model: Yuna Kim and Su Hyun Kim)
 * 2nd ₩328 Hite beer (Main model: Yuna Kim)

- As a father of 13 yo son, I understand your interest on it. Moreover I want Seoul to ban all media from advertising alcohol itself.

'''I agree with you completely. :)''' Pmcalduff (talk) 11:56, 7 June 2012 (UTC) You bet. --RunnersHigh (talk) 13:23, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

But, I wanna say criticism on this case must blame not an individual but rules and regulations for bad influence from alcoholic ad. (FYI, in Korea, Currently alcohol commercials on TV allowed from 22:00, Radio anytime.)

I don't know who and what you are but many Americans in Korea do teach English in school and institute for a living. As you may know, some were drug addicted, ex-con and sex offenders. Few years ago, Parents got to knew that and then there's a public uproar.

Do you remember what happend then? Media blamed rules and regulations for having been outdated and not prepared but didn't blame any certain English teacher or instructor at all. That's what right criticism is, isnt't it?

'''Of course the media didn't blame the individual teachers involved. As soon as the "drug addicted, ex-con and sex offenders" were discovered, they were arrested by the police and thrown out of the country. Do you think they were allowed to stay in Korea because it was the fault of the rules and regulations. No of course not. The fact that the law was wrong didn't change the fact that they were dangerous people. The fact that the current law concerning athletes in beer commercials is wrong doesn't change the fact that Kim, Yuna was wrong to appear in those commercials. The fact that it is currently legal for her to promote the sale of alcohol doesn't free her from her responsibility to act as a good role model for the millions of young girls who look up to her.''' Pmcalduff (talk) 11:56, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

“Legal but wrong” reminds me of many social issues. Mainly bad cases but I don't think it belongs to them.

BTW,
 * Who decides one’s role model?
 * What behaviors do you want to emulate?
 * Your 22 years old role model joined Marine today. Will you at age 12 try to join right force?
 * My role model is currently in his second childhood, BTAIM do I emulate him?
 * What if someone select you as his/her role and ask you to take responsibility?--RunnersHigh (talk) 13:23, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

My point is, this time Criticism selected a wrong target and therefore missed what it pursued. That's why many reliable news articles scolded the criticism severely.

And that's why I disagree to add the section.

'''It is not that the criticism hit the wrong target. It didn't hit enough targets. It should fall on everyone involved. Korean lawmakers, all of the athletes promoting alcohol, and the alcohol companies themselves.''' Pmcalduff (talk) 11:56, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Wrong target and not enough. If KAAP really wanted to stop the speeding bus, it had to pull the trigger on tires but it failed to stop the bus and hit a passenger in the back seat. Currently no one has interest in banning the alcoholic ad or athletes’ from advertising alcoholic ad. Media just focused the passenger hit by KAAP.--RunnersHigh (talk) 13:23, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Sorry. I just signed my recent comments. Pmcalduff (talk) 11:56, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

It's very kind of you. Good to talk with you. ;) --RunnersHigh (talk) 13:23, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

'''I don't understand why a new section on 'CRITICISM' was put here on Yuna's wikipedia just because of certain news articles that a certain group was DISAGREEABLE to her endorsing a beer product, when NOBODY HAS EVER BOTHERED to put a section on 'PRAISES AND APPRECIATION' from MANY ORGANIZATIONS. IF being criticized for that is so important to merit a NEW SECTION HERE, why not add a section discussing HOW MUCH SHE IS BEING APPRECIATED FOR SO MANY THINGS IN KOREA AND AROUND THE WORLD?? I'm sure there are HUNDREDS OF NEWS ARTICLES about that if people here think what media has to say is SO IMPORTANT.''' — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shiloh07 (talk • contribs) 08:54, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

I suggest removing this "criticism" section altogether. Those articles and criticism pieces are not the first ones in the story of Yuna, she was criticized for something no matter how small it was, so what, Wikipedia is going to mention any criticizing article? This wasn't any serious criticism and it doesn't add any substantial info on Yuna, it adds more about those guys and their views than on Yuna. Celebrities are constantly criticized.

I also suggest expanding more the section on a libel suit, because right now it looks like Yuna is bullying someone just for criticizing her, while in reality is a defamation suit and the guy she sues actually publicly provided false and misleading information about her. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.35.197.14 (talk) 12:44, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Can somone please change her name
Her name is not yuna and never was

Someone who knows how to please please change it —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rohmann (talk • contribs) 23:51, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

'Yu-Na' is her official name, but 'Yuna' is also her name. You can check on her twitter account that she wrote her name 'Yuna Kim' not 'Yu-Na Kim' http://twitter.com/Yunaaaa In my opinion, Yuna is better than Yu-Na because a hyphen doesn't have to be in her name. A hyphen connects two diffrent names or prevents mispronounciation. However, 'Yu-Na' and 'Yuna' is pronounced the same, then why bother putting an unnecessary hyphen in her name? Some insist that her name needs a hyphen because it is made of two chinese characters. However, many Chinese and Japanese names are also made of two characters, but usually they don't use a hyphen. Korean given names don't need a hyphen either unless they are mispronounced without it.Karpuz12 (talk) 14:34, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Shouldn't it actually be Yeon-Ah? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.124.161.159 (talk) 07:47, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 23:22, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Kim Yu-Na → Kim Yuna – Her Given name ′Yuna′ without hyphen is the common usage. Refer to her official website, International Skating Union website, Olympic.org website. Her family name ′Kim′ should be written first because she is Korean (WP:NC-KO). Sawol (talk) 12:35, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Support "Yuna"; the proper romanization is Yun-ah/Yeon-Ah; where Kim(김)Yeon(연)Ah(아) is the breakdown. -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 05:00, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Yuna's foot injury
Could some expert Yuna fan add some details about her foot injury that she was just diagnosed with? It's a metatarsal injury to her right foot. Apparently she was skating on it for some time. Any slight injury affects all of us Yuna fans. I think it's high time these injuries to our top skaters stop. Will someone please invent a skate with a pneumatic shock absorber? Look at the devastation this season: Yuna, Kiira Korpi and Alissa Czisny are all out of competition with injuries right now...and Julia Lipnitskaia was earlier. And this is Olympic season! At least Gracie Gold played it smart and doubled a lot of her triples when she was skating on that broken left skate at US Classic--and she still got Silver. Yuna is real smart too--she has good stategy. Yuna will use this time to assess the competition. She'll miss Skate Canada (I'm betting Gracie Gold wins--she just teamed with Frank Carroll for her new coach, so watch out Yuna!) but Yuna's foot might be healed in time for Eric Bompard even though she's withdrawn, at which point the season will be in full swing. 50.202.81.2 (talk) 05:16, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Kim Yuna
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Kim Yuna's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "1213ts": From Adelina Sotnikova:  From Ashley Wagner:  From Julia Lipnitskaia:  From Kanako Murakami:  

Reference named "1112ts": From Li Zijun:  From Adam Rippon: </li> <li>From Mirai Nagasu: </li> </ul>

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 13:20, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Religion
There seems to be an edit war going on, over whether to include Kim's religion in the article.

Generally, facts like this are included, when reported in reliable sources. In this case, it's been reported, e.g. (Korean, but that doesn't make it unavailable as a source); ;. The latter two are Catholic-sponsored news organizations, but I don't think that impacts reliability. My take is that it should be included.

One version of the article included that her mother converted to Catholicism at the same time. I do concur that that does not belong. The article is about Kim, not her mother. But with respect to Kim herself, the information should be included.

Either way, I suggest that the various parties who are adding and deleting the passage pause to discuss it here and reach a consensus, rather than edit-warring. TJRC (talk) 00:00, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Misspelling Yu-Na
According to this WSJ article, the misspelling is only a rumor. Why it was spelled Yu-na is unknown. http://blogs.wsj.com/korearealtime/2014/02/19/koreans-await-kim-yu-na-or-is-it-yuna-kim/ --Christian140 (talk) 22:04, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

2014 Olympics controversy
I think the controversy should be detailed on the Figure skating at the 2014 Winter Olympics – Ladies' singles page and here just the statement and link that it happened. The controversy is not about Kim Yuna, it's about the event judging and scoring. Adding a dozen paragraphs detracts from Kim Yuna's article. Also it makes editing the issue harder since you'd have to edit in a dozen places. I've removed the nine paragraphs. Before re-adding them please discuss here and get a community consensus. Thanks, Kirin13 (talk) 17:45, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Records and achievements list
First of all - list is completely uncited. I've already removed one false detail, two unclear ones, and twoquestionable notable ones. I further intend to remove several others where it's questionable if these 'facts' are notable (if it's notable, then there should be reliable source for this information). I also intend to combine quite a few of them. I feel that in it's current state, it's too repetitive making it hard for a reader to understand. The point is to highlight her major achievements. Thoughts? Kirin13 (talk) 07:50, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Without context showing notability, these kind of achievements lack sense: "First woman to break the 200-point, 210-point, and 220-point mark..." Are we going to add the 150, 155, 160,... 225, 230... point marks to other athletes? -- Neil N  <sup style="color:blue;">talk to me  13:12, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Some other athletes already have mentions of this (e.g. Mao Asada, Yuzuru Hanyu). The numbers are arbitrary (but at least easily verifiable) and basically they're the same thing as breaking the record scores. Some may be more notable (if newspapers picked it up) vs. others are mostly fan collected/noted (thus don't belong in Wikipedia).
 * Some of these records/achievements may have been added in response to list on Mao Asada's page. Kim and Asada are known to be rivals and sometimes it seems to me that this is reflected in editor contributions. Overall, a lot of figure skating bio articles get quite wordy with career sections getting so large that readers will tend to ignore it. There seems to be a lot of repetition of facts later shown in tables and inclusion of minor details (e.g. skater did this spin or this jump at this event). Overall, these articles could use a good cleaning, but I'd hate to be the one going against the defenders of these sections ... Kirin13 (talk) 14:56, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Holy heck, I had no idea... I shudder to think what would happen if this practice spread to other sports. First left-handed receiver to catch 105 passes in a season. First right-handed receiver to catch 110 passes in a single season... -- Neil N  <sup style="color:blue;">talk to me  15:48, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Donations section
Shouldn't this be summarized in some ways, instead of detailing dozens of individual donations? Regards, Iselilja (talk) 16:25, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I just deleted it, moving a sentence into Personal life. -- Neil N  <sup style="color:blue;">talk to me  04:38, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Support deletion & summary sentence in Personal life section. No need to list every donation. Kirin13 (talk) 06:39, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Just to note that I still support my own suggestion. And also trimming of the records sections. Iselilja (talk) 22:47, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Images and donations section
The amount of images (24 at last count) and the donations section are out of control. Many of the images show the same thing (Yuna skating) and the donations are pure trivia (not everything that's sourceable is notable). I discussed what I did here but an editor just reverts with no edit summary or discussion. -- Neil N  <sup style="color:blue;">talk to me  05:16, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Seven(!) more images were just added. I've reverted but that's it for me. -- Neil N  <sup style="color:blue;">talk to me  06:19, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Way too much info on the donations. I've removed and directed  to discuss and obtain consensus before re-adding. I haven't looked at the images and express no opinion on that either way. TJRC (talk) 23:10, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Name
Curious about her name. Does anyone know why she's referred to as 'Yuna' in English? That's not her name. --Bentonia School (talk) 14:36, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Because that IS her name (although it's Yu-na). RageAgainstTheWikiMachine (Pen name of Mydoctor93) 02:03, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No, that's not her name. --Bentonia School (talk) 15:15, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, if you really try to transliterate it directly from the Korean name 연아, it should be Yeon-A. Then in the English speaking world, "A" seems unnatural to stand by itself... So I guess they decided to move over the hyphen + change the vowel a little... Just as the last president of Korea Roh Moo-hyun preferred to spell it "Roh," which is a less-popular way to pronounce the last name 노(盧) in Korea than the popular "No" or "Noh." When the English-speaking media refers to your name as "No" all the time, it doesn't sound that good. --Immer in Bewegung (talk) 17:42, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * That makes sense. Just the same they could've gone with "Yeon-ah." Neither here nor there, I was just curious.--Bentonia School (talk) 15:15, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Because SHE wants to be referred as Kim Yuna, not Yeon-A or Yeon-Ah. Even her official webpage is www.yunakim.com 72.89.109.160 (talk) 21:30, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
 * her webpage is not run by her, and it is inconsistent in the English version, using both Yuna Kim and Yu-Na Kim. Clown (talk) 07:56, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

How about the pronunciation of her name? I noticed that it's not up, but in Korean, it would be "YUH-Na", whereas in English, "YOO-Na" seems to be the right way to say it (even her coach calls her that). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.113.36.178 (talk) 05:52, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

No one knows exactly why her name in English is spelled "Yu-Na". It may have been when she originally started living in Canada, and that was on her visa paperwork. Her coach calls her "yoo-nah" instead of the correct "yuhn-a"; why no one has corrected him is beyond me. The problem is, that everyone now in the English speaking world mispronounces her name because of where the hyphen is (and because of how her moron coach pronounces it). An IPA pronunciation isn't going to change things. Deliberately spelling it at least a little more correct (the way that makes sense, without hyphenating it wrong) would help correct the situation Clown (talk) 07:56, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

If she wants to be called Yuna, then fine, but the article should not be titled "Yu-Na" because that is just wrong on all accounts (unless that is what she wants). Even still, the correct transliteration (Yeon-Ah I think is best) should be included if for no other reason than to show that those who are in charge of this article are not ignorant regarding hangeul and its transliteration schemes. 118.42.219.226 (talk) 13:52, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * concur on changing article title, possibly to Kim Yuna (without hyphen)? Clown (talk) 07:56, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

And why the asian names are always in their own order, given name last? Even hungarian names are in the 'western order' in wikipedia. So why these aren't? Since this is english (=western) wikipedia, not asian. 82.141.94.110 (talk) 16:32, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Because Wikipedia knows how to write asian names properly? Although she said "When I'm at home, it's Kim Yuna. When I'm on the road it's Yuna Kim." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TLkceeD_fc)

Her name in the ISU Profile has changed from Yu-Na Kim to Yuna Kim since 2010-2011 season. I guess her name in her passport still is Kim Yu-Na because it's not easy to change one's name in the passport. Many Korean given names have hyphens in them, but the rule clearly says it's optional. I'm Korean and I don't use a hyphen in my English name in the passport. Now Yuna has changed the profile, shoudn't we think 'Yuna Kim' as her official stage name?Karpuz12 (talk) 07:57, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I think that would be valid as an altname in the infobox, which would display "Alternative name Yuna Kim", but the main name should be kept consistent with the article title.  January  ( talk ) 11:09, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Does the source in the article say that she had the profile changed herself? (I can't seem to open it on the slow computer I'm using at the moment). January  ( talk ) 11:51, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Not sure whether she had it changed herself or not. However, there is a profile in her official website www.yunakim.com, and it says her name is Yuna Kim.Karpuz12 (talk) 04:18, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Soo....nothing in what I'm reading here gives a logical explanation of why the page has "Kim Yu-Na" instead of "Kim Yuna." I see that she's asked to be called "Kim Yuna" or "Yuna Kim," but putting the hyphen in there just makes it a completely wrong way to read her name. Is anyone opposed to taking the hyphen out, at least? 65.190.41.217 (talk) 03:55, 27 September 2011 (UTC)


 * The hyphen has to go, and I think the name should be changed to Yuna Kim. but for some reason this requires a move request to the administration, and if there's any apparent debate on the title, this causes issues. I'm too lazy to read through the legalese of getting it done, but I think it would improve the article to do so.Atkinson (talk) 03:22, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

She said that in English people mispronounce her Korean name, and it's difficult for Westerners to properly pronounce; therefore she changed her name in English to simply Yuna and she likes to be called Yuna Kim. It's a more natural pronunciation and doesn't annoy her like when people mispronounce Korean so much. In South Korea of course they still call her by her Korean name. Hope this helps. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ToFarAwayTimes (talk • contribs) 12:08, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Yuna Kim or Kim Yuna
The biography section refers to the skater as "Yuna Kim" while the rest of the article refers to her as Kim Yuna. Kim Yuna seems to be correct as it's the direct transliteration of her Korean name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.164.172.189 (talk) 17:45, 21 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Going by The Wikipedia Naming Conventions for Korean Names, family name should come first, unless the person has expressed a preference otherwise. Since she actually has expressed a preference for Western Ordering, Yuna Kim is the correct order.  The article should probably be moved accordingly to Yuna Kim. demeteloaf (talk) 04:24, 22 February 2014 (UTC)


 * The URL has moved to http://www.espn.com/espn/wire?id=10370624 but the content is the same: "EDITORS: At the athlete's request, The Associated Press has started referring to the Olympic figure skating champion as Yuna Kim. Kim was previously referred to as Kim Yu-na, which is in AP style for South Korean names when the person has not expressed a preference for an English transliteration. (signed) The AP" (January 29, 2014).
 * Thus I agree and also support the rename. 71.41.210.146 (talk) 00:13, 11 March 2017 (UTC)


 * ✅ 71.41.210.146 (talk) 16:36, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified (January 2018)
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GA Nomination
Hi, which sections need most attention? I thought it looked good, but it was admittedly too long to read in its entirety. Editor120918756 (talk) 11:18, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 * We need to ensure that every statement is supported by a reference to a reliable source. Right now, there are several citation needed tags in the article. That's automatic grounds for failure according to the GA criteria, so we need to fix those right away. Artemisia (talk) 11:20, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I just saw some of the competition sections... I don't really understand why things like "Kostner was booed because she earned silver" were written. Is there a way to withdraw the article? I can nominate it later, after I clean some of these up. Editor120918756 (talk) 11:28, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 * You can withdraw the article by removing the GA nominee template from the talk page. Artemisia (talk) 11:30, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Done. I'll try to improve the competition sections, at least, the others I'm not too sure how I can. Can anyone else help us? Actually I'm not sure how this article got so long. Editor120918756 (talk) 11:33, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I can work on the other sections, I know how to find Korean sources. She has done a lot in her career but there may be parts we can trim down. Artemisia (talk) 11:38, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 * If you can find the sources for Korean nationals, it would be great, too. 2008 WD apparently happened due to injury. I agree she's achieved a lot, and it very much should be a long article (it's why I nominated!), but reading it, a lot reads like someone's diary entry? Lots of purple-prose. We can trim and still make sure her achievements and life are properly showcased. Editor120918756 (talk) 11:45, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I will have a look, I'm sure there's plenty of coverage in Korean news articles. It may take some time though so please bear with me! Artemisia (talk) 12:08, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 * No issues, we can get it done by next year or something. I have a full-time job too haha. Editor120918756 (talk) 12:13, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm guessing her comments about which jump is her favorite are also in Korean? Could you please find those out? I'm leaving citation needed for many things, and deleting/editing other things for neutrality in the career section. Editor120918756 (talk) 14:36, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't know. I will look for it but if I can't find anything we'll have to take it out. Artemisia (talk) 14:42, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I remember reading about the boot issues at 2010 Worlds, but for the life of me can't remember *where*. Also, need the ISU citation for her placement at 2013 being enough for three spots, but tbh this can be deleted. Editor120918756 (talk) 16:16, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh, hey, here we are, for her favorite jumps!!! http://www.yunakim.com/new2012/eng/about/questions.php

2010 Worlds
I found a news article saying she felt unsure on her left foot, but nothing about boot issues. https://www.smh.com.au/world/kim-battles-for-title-as-canadians-win-ice-dance-gold-20100327-r3fd.html Editor120918756 (talk) 11:07, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I found one article that speculated she might have had boot problems, but it doesn't seem that Yuna herself said anything about it, just that her leg was shaking. Artemisia (talk) 11:58, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I spoke to a friend, she's an old Yuna fan, she seems to remember nothing about it either? Told me we should maybe ask a Korean fan if they know Korean articles, but I think that one's made up. Also asked for help in the FS wikiproject, if you noticed. Editor120918756 (talk) 12:51, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Discography
Is there a way to consolidate the Discography into Yuna Kim? Editor120918756 (talk) 13:13, 30 October 2022 (UTC)


 * I'm going to turn it into a collapsible table within Yuna Kim, if it's fine? Editor120918756 (talk) 13:15, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Discographies are supposed to have their own section. They shouldn't be collapsible. Artemisia (talk) 13:17, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Philanthropy
I think we could create a new section and add some things like her Kamala Harris meeting, prize money donation, and the work she's done for UNICEF beyond "awards and honors" to this section. Actually, I think her being somewhat of a feminist symbol in South Korea deserves a mention? Editor120918756 (talk) 19:53, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree, she has been very active in this area. "Philanthropy and activism" might be a better title if we are covering things like the meeting with Harris. I was looking at her article on the Korean Wikipedia and they have a very long list of her donations which we could maybe use as a starting point if we want to go into that in more detail. Artemisia (talk) 14:56, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh right! Does the Korean article have links to some of the things we removed (Milan worlds, layback inabauer being difficult)? Editor120918756 (talk) 17:09, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Also we really need more photos lol Editor120918756 (talk) 17:10, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by Milan Worlds? The only Milan Worlds I can think of is 2018. As for pictures, she has her own category on Commons. Artemisia (talk) 17:22, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh gosh, I meant 2010 Turin. Sorry, Milan Olympics on my mind already! Yeah, I found pictures on the korean page, too, I'm going to "steal". Editor120918756 (talk) 17:28, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Separate artistry from the skating technique section
I was wondering if we could separate the parts about her artistry from Yuna Kim, because then we could also put in her works with her choreographers, and also try to find comments from David Wilson about her artistic aspects. I think it makes sense, because she's definitely an artist, and it would be the same way as it's done with musicians and singers. By the way, if there's a style guide to be followed with athletes, then I don't know it, and I'd appreciate to be directed towards it. Editor120918756 (talk) 16:10, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I think that her work with David Wilson definitely warrants more coverage than it has currently. There is a style guide for figure skating at WP:FS STYLE. It might also be useful to look at other figure skating GAs, such as Yuzuru Hanyu and Tara Lipinski. I think the Hanyu article could provide a good model for us – it has a section dedicated to coaches and choreographers, which we could use to discuss her collaboration with Wilson. Artemisia (talk) 14:42, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I'll make the section about artistry and start adding Wilson interviews. You'll probably do a better job fetching philanthropy from the Korean page, but I did find the stuff she did for UNICEF because it was all in English. Editor120918756 (talk) 17:30, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Also, I'll do this in my sandbox, so that I don't end up ruining the article. Editor120918756 (talk) 17:35, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Sure, sounds good. I'm also planning to expand the awards section as it's pretty incomplete right now. Artemisia (talk) 17:36, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Do you think we should put Wilson's criticism of her early retirement in the article? Personally I'd be fine with it, and it'd lead into her renewing ATS in 2018. But on the other hand, it's a bit too Wilson-focused at that point. Editor120918756 (talk) 08:54, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 * https://web.archive.org/web/20121229111238/http://yunaforum.com/wiki/quotes_by_yuna Hey, this is the yuna fan OS's website, there are many interviews on it too! Editor120918756 (talk) 09:32, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 * ALSO if there have been any interviews about her costumes, please send them to me on my sandbox! Editor120918756 (talk) 16:19, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't mind if we include the Wilson criticism, but if we do, I think it should probably just be a brief mention. I will keep an eye out for interviews! Artemisia (talk) 23:23, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Anti-doping post in 2022
should we include something about her anti-doping stance at the olympics? Editor120918756 (talk) 13:19, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I am not sure because it doesn't really relate to her own career. Artemisia (talk) 00:37, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Pre-review by Figureskatingfan
Hi I've been asked to do a review of this bio before the editors submit it to GAN. This is a very informal review, for the purpose of helping further improve this bio. Please take what you can and leave the rest, as they say, and feel free to disregard any of it. I value all of our time, so I'll make ce's as I go and then come here to ask questions and for clarification, so revert as you see fit and/or you disagree with my changes. Should be fun! Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 18:03, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Lead
 * Prose review

According to MOS:LEADCITE, you don't have to cite material in the lead, unless it's likely to be challenged or if it's a direct quotation. I can see why you cite some material, like the claim that Kim is regarded as one of the greatest figure skaters of all time, but not others, like the list of her accomplishments in paragraph 3.

Early life and education

Could this section be expanded? What were her parents' occupations? Why did she move to Gunpo? Does she have any siblings and what's her birth order? I ask because yes, these are typical things included in bios and because personally, I don't care for short sections (or paragraphs; see below).

You use the term "Long Program" twice; the Figure Skating WikiProject uses "free skate" or "free skating program"; see our MOS. I'm also noticing times when you refer to the free skate in other ways; please go through and fix them.

"Salchow" is always capitalized because all jumps named after people are; also see our MOS.

Short paragraphs: You have them throughout. Like I said above, I'm not a fan of overly-short paragraphs, so this is just a suggestion. I'm not sure you'd be able to do this for all your short paragraphs, but I recommend doing the easiest thing to solve this "problem:" combine paragraphs. For example, you could combine the last paragraph of the 2006–2007 season subsection with the paragraph above.

In that same subsection: "She was Orser's first real student." What does that mean? I looked at all three sources that ar supposed to support it, but I didn't find anything that does. Perhaps I missed it?

2009–2010 season: Super Slam: You could combine the one-section fourth paragraph with the last one, since Kim's win at the Olympics is thematically connected with her lack of motivation at Worlds that year.

2010 Winter Olympics: Gold medal: 2nd paragraph: "Overall, Kim totaled 228.56 points, shattering her personal best and own old world record by a margin of 18 points, which became the longest standing record performance in the historical +3 GOE system, from February 2010 to January 2017." This sentence is a little confusing. I think you're saying that the old GOE system lasted from 2010-2017? I also think that some amount of jargon is unavoidable for figure skating articles, but the uninitiated fan won't understand this sentence. How about removing all reference to the GOE and just stating: "...which became the longest standing record performance up to that point."

2010–2011 and 2011–2012 seasons: For all my compliants about too-short paragraphs, I think the first one in this section is too long. You could separate it after the Rippon quote.

2013–2014 season: You should resolve the [citation needed] tag in the 4th paragraph.

Artistry: Like I said above, I don't mind using quotes, but I suspect that you'll be pinged for how you use them here. Consequently, I suggest that you paraphrase at least a few of them.

Olympic ambassador: Another [citation needed] tag to resolve, 1st paragraph.

In the media: I think you could combine the final three subsections. Perhaps you could rename it "Other endeavors"? (Boring, I know, so I'm sure you could come up with something more creative.) ;) Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 22:21, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Personal life: Again, with the short sections. You could easily combine the contents of the Relationship subsection to the first paragraph. I also wonder if you could put the content in the Name spelling subsection up in the Early life and education section. Just a thought; take it or leave as you wish.

I've gone on the record that I'm the worst at tables, so I suggest that you ask someone else to make sure they're compliant. User:Henni147 is our resident expert with figure skating charts; I'm sure they'll help.

Images: They are lots of good images in this bio, but I wonder if you could add even more. I like to try to add at least one image per section, if they don't bundle. I also wonder if there are more podium images of Kim to put in the results sections? Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 23:11, 7 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Source review

I'm not going to go through every single ref, just the ones that capture my attention. The citation format is well-done, though, nice job.

It looks like you've archived every reference, which is a good idea for all figure skating articles because they depend so heavily on web sources, and you've included the archive IRLs in your inline citations. Personally, I don't include the IRLs because they tend to clutter up the citations. I make sure that all URLs have been archived through the Wayback Machine and if they aren't I archive them; then I put a template on the talk page stating that I've done that as of a certain date (see Talk:Johnny Weir). This is just a suggestion and up to you if want to follow it.

I'm AGF re: the Korean sources, since I don't speak Korean. ;) I like that you include the English translation supporting your statement. I have a question, though, that goes off the point. One of the challenges for skater bios, at least for Americans, is finding enough reliable sources. The team of editors working on the articles about Yuzuru Hanyu don't have that problem because figure skating is so popular in Japan and so much has been written about him. Which problem are you folks having? My assummption it's the same for the U.S. skaters, since figure skating is relaitively undeveloped in South Korean. Just curious, so thanks for indulging my question. ;)


 * Yuna is probably one of the most famous people in the country so there is no shortage of coverage about her. I don't know if the same is true of the other Korean skaters, however. Artemisia (talk) 11:54, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

Ref40: This source is the competition results; it states that came Kim in first place, but not that it was her first international competition. Remember that all your claims must be supported by your sources, so you either need to find a source that supports it or you need to remove the citation. You do the same thing with other refs, like ref43, ref55, ref58. Please go through the rest of the bio and correct for that.

As per my statement about Orser above, I'm a little concerned that your sources don't always support your claims. I'm not going to go through every source, but I suggest that you do, just to make sure. If you don't do it now, others will insist that you do, especially if you decide to take this to FAC. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 22:21, 5 March 2023 (UTC)


 * I get your problem with ref 40, and I can't read ref43 either because it's in Korean. But I'm confused about what the issue is with ref 55 and 58. Ref 55 is used to show she medaled at GPF. If the problem is with the statement it was her first GPF, well, it was her first senior season, therefore also her first GPF. Not sure what the problem here is? Same question with ref 58.
 * Corrected the Orser "first real student" quote. Thanks for pointing it out. I'd put the wrong ref in. Editor120918756 (talk) 11:38, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The issue is that the sources need to support everything that is stated in the preceding sentences. So ref 55 can't just show that she medaled - it also needs to show the scores she achieved in each segment, that it was her first GPF, and that it took place in Saint Petersburg. Likewise, ref 58 needs to show that she fell on both her triple Lutzes during the free skate, which it doesn't currently. I actually think ref 43 is okay as it states that she won nationals for three consecutive years between 2003 and 2005. Artemisia (talk) 12:26, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I get the scores part, I'd missed those, but I'm not sure why exactly we need to say it was held in St Petersburg when the event's wikipedia page already tells us it was held in St Petersburg. Or why we need to source that it was her first GPF when it was her first senior season, so by association it would be her first GPF. We haven't sourced the senior debut being skate canada either, from ref 53 for example, it's obvious it's her senior debut because her ISU results page tells us so?
 * I get the triple lutz falls part, not sure how we can source that, so maybe it's better to remove that sentence in the LP. Editor120918756 (talk) 14:28, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * We can't use Wikipedia as a source, nor can we rely on assumption as that would be original research. That's why it's generally better to use news articles instead of results pages as they will contain more detail about the competitions. Artemisia (talk) 14:54, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia isn't the source, my point is, if you go to 2006–07 Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final, there in the refs, you'll already find the GPF website, which will have the St Petersburg name. That's already sourced there. I'm not sure if we need to give a source to the GPF website again. I can maybe dig, but this is a strange requirement to me if true.
 * For the original research part, well it's not original, it's the isuresults page, that's already linked though. It's her first senior season, because... it is. According to her own official bio. But I'll see if I can find another news link, I guess.
 * I found the 3Lz falls thing, and linked it. Editor120918756 (talk) 15:00, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * But it is, according to WP definitions and conventions, OR. I suggest that you read this, which explains the policy and the reasons for it: WP:SYNTH. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 22:45, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

The same issue we discuss above appears in much of the info recorded in the charts. For example, ref16 is simply a list of the highest SP scores since 2021. I can tell you that no GAN reviewer will let that stand, and for good reason. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 23:11, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

I'm going to take a break here and come back to more feedback later, probably tomorrow. Thanks for your patience; this is a long bio and deserves spending time on. Thanks and best, Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 22:21, 5 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Editor120918756 (talk) 11:18, 6 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much for your feedback so far, I really appreciate it! Artemisia (talk) 11:53, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Continuing on, putting my next group of comments below the previous ones, so hopefully that's not too confusing. I was closer to being done than I had thought, so there are only a few more now. Understand that this is by no means an exhaustive review; I just commented on things that I easily saw and were glaring to me. More eyes at GAN would probably be a good idea. I hope that I helped improve this bio even just a little.
 * One more thing: looking at this bio globally, I think once you fix the OR issues, this could be a very strong figure skater bio. My favorite WP articles and bios catch upon a theme and use the sources to emphasize them and that's what you're doing here. The main theme of Kim's bio is the overwhelming amount of obstacles she had to face (lack of opportunities for training, injuries, natural disasters) and how she overcame them. Her story is so inspiring. Understand that's not OR; no where do you say or make inferences about this, but it's heavily implied because that's her story. Very nicely done. Best, and please let me know how else I can assist. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 23:20, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi, I see you're editing things in the article. What's on the agenda, and what should I do? Editor120918756 (talk) 08:50, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Not sure why I can't reply to your comment? Anyway, I'll do the artistry section because it was my idea. What is OR, again? Sorry, the wikipedia jargon confuses me. Editor120918756 (talk) 12:27, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Also, IIRC, Yuna did have a sibling? I think I saw a young girl next to Yuna in an old video, but IDR if it was a sibling or a friend. youtube watch?v=8u3xu8GI85w&ab_channel=shootinglikeher around 9 min 10s Editor120918756 (talk) 12:29, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I've fixed some of the points raised in the review already. I think the main issues we need to address currently are fixing the OR, expanding the early life and education section if possible, and paraphrasing the quotes in the artistry section.

Yes, I can adjust the tables so that they meet Wikipedia's requirements of accessibility and other aspects in the MOS. I hope to do it today, but it's a quite tiresome work, so it may take some time. Henni147 (talk) 08:47, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Potential split
I think we discussed this previously, but I'm considering creating a separate article for Yuna's achievements, similar to what's been done with Yuzuru Hanyu and Nathan Chen. I've been going through the records and achievements section and I've found that there are a lot of achievements missing, but I'm reluctant to bulk up the article further by adding them in. What do you think? Artemisia (talk) 14:45, 3 August 2023 (UTC)


 * @Artemisialufkin: Sure.
 * Personally, I don't care for the idea of splitting up the records and achievements from what's supposed to be a sports biography though. I'd rather move her work outside of skating (like for the IOC, modeling, brand endorsements) to a different page. I've brought this up before. But if you think moving the records and achievements is better, then I'll go with the flow. Editor120918756 (talk) 16:03, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Artemisialufkin Also, should we add the recent Sotnikova stuff somewhere? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_skating_at_the_2014_Winter_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Ladies%27_singles#Result_and_subsequent_debate
 * Feel like we will need to fill it up a bit on Yuna's own page just in case something comes of it now, too.
 * I was also advised to remove BIGBANG's photo from the page, because one of the members became embroiled in controversy haha. I have been trying to find a replacement with IU, but didn't find anything public. Can we just add some of the articles about her working with IU, maybe?Editor120918756 (talk) 07:58, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * We've already addressed the scoring controversy briefly in the 2014 Olympics section. I don't think the recent doping allegations belong here unless they result in medals being reassigned, which I think is unlikely. As for BigBang, I know they're controversial, but that's not really a reason to remove their picture. I can add a bit more about IU to the music section though? Artemisia (talk) 20:29, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @ArtemisialufkinHaha, my friend and I are major stans, so we wanted to "protect yuna" by removing that picture. I would probably prefer it, but it's true we need an actually public picture before we get to that.
 * Yeah, you can add IU to music. Editor120918756 (talk) 06:53, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @ArtemisialufkinWe can remove the 210 point barrier thing, IMO. Unnecessary.
 * @FigureskatingfanWe only have two right now. Could you do another preliminary review and tell us what we can do? And add your opinion on how the split should happen? @MovieTalk101178 Editor120918756 (talk) 11:37, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Apologies for the length in responding; was out of town last week. I'm inclined to agree with Editor, so it's my opinion that if you wanted to do a split, that you take out the non-skating content, like Kim's media career and the like. Is that BigBang image even free? I just did a quick look-over and it looks like the have since been removed. Did you want me to go through the score charts to look for more secondary sources like I've done elsewhere? Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 18:13, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @FigureskatingfanYes, that would be great!
 * I guess we vote to move the media career outside of this page. We'll leave everything related to sports (so her work with the IOC and Yuna Kim's kiss and cry can stay) on here, but the rest can go to a different page. Maybe this way we can add more things about her brand endorsements and ads and hanbok designs to the other page, without worrying to much.
 * About bigbang - it's from flickr. I don't know who uploaded it, or if it fits the criteria for being a wikimedia image though. Editor120918756 (talk) 01:56, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @ArtemisialufkinMighty impressive you got the triglav trophy one!! Editor120918756 (talk) 02:05, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Yep, I was pretty pleased, it took a while to find! The BigBang picture is free so there should be no issues. I guess we would move the media, philanthropy and discography sections? Artemisia (talk) 13:41, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @ArtemisialufkinYes, we would go through media, philanthropy, and discography. Editor120918756 (talk) 05:08, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @FigureskatingfanAlso I meant pre-review for GA rated article, but the other stuff if you can, would be great as well. Editor120918756 (talk) 05:27, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok, I will go through the score charts; shouldn't take as long as the other list, haha. I'll also pre-review for GAN, afterwards. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 22:10, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I've started the process, including adding content as I see it, but something has already come up: the sources aren't formatted consistently. Some are inline, others are not. The format used doesn't matter as long as they're consistent, so I suggest that you make a choice and then change them when necessary. I *highly* recommend that you use inline citations; I can explain why if you ask. I'll wait until the changes are made before I move forward. Thanks, Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 21:13, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I also prefer inline citations; I find it makes it much easier to edit. I've gone ahead and made the changes, so you can proceed with the review when you're ready. Artemisia (talk) 00:17, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @ArtemisialufkinHow did you move them so easily and quickly? Did you use a tool? Editor120918756 (talk) 05:11, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Artemisialufkin@Figureskatingfan I've created Media Image and Impact of Yuna Kim. Editor120918756 (talk) 09:49, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Artemisialufkin, yo thanks for doing that! I'm impressed with how quickly you did it, too. Will get back to it. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 18:39, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Everyone, I've found other issues with the sources and "fixing" them as I'm going along. They include inconsistent and incorrect formatting, incorrect uses of the citation templates (i.e., using the website template instead of news), and inadequate source mining. After I'm done with the corrections I find as I'm adding sources to the Detailed results tables, it's my intention to go through the entire article to correct them. So I take back what I said about this task not taking very long. ;) Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 18:39, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Potential split (cont.)
Everyone, I'm starting a new topic here because our previous discussion has been archived. As promised, I've gone through Kim's detailed results to locate secondary sources to support the content. I also expanded content in the Competitive career section and subsections. I'd like to continue the process by going through the entire article, checking the sources and adding content as needed. It's my intention to at least start this process, which will take some time, by the end of September. I'd like to take a break from figure skating articles and bios for a couple of weeks and focus on other things, unless anyone thinks that this bio needs to be submitted for GAN sooner. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 21:34, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Take as long as you need - you've done a lot of work! Thank you for all of your help so far! Artemisia (talk) 22:12, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
 * @Figureskatingfan Hi Christine! Thank you for your work. It's okay, we are in no hurry to submit for GAN. Editor120918756 (talk) 14:50, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Orser split
As stated above, currently I'm going through all the sources in this bio and checking them. My intention, once I'm finished with that part of the process, of going back and making sure that the sources are adequately mined, kind of what I started to do when I looked for secondary sources for Kim's scores. I've gotten to the discussion about her split with Brian Orser in the 2010–2011 and 2011–2012 seasons subsection. I think that devoting two paragraphs to it is UNDUE, so I'd like to rewrite them, using only reliable sources (the AP, major newspapers in the U.S. and Canada, IceNetwork), but not blogs (even if they were published by reliable sources) or social media posts. For now, I've removed the less reliable sources and added the "citation needed" tag to mark the claims in the hopes that I can find better sources to support them. Eventually, I think we should summarize the events around the split and not get into the controversy/"he said she said" aspect of it, since that's unencyclopedic. What does everyone think? Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 16:12, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Orser split
@Figureskatingfan I just saw this in the archives. I think I'm fine with the he said she said parts being removed, and the blogs/social media being removed as well. Editor120918756 (talk) 16:27, 25 October 2023 (UTC)


 * @Editor120918756, I'm workin' on it! Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 17:22, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Show skating career section
Friends, in my on-going and slow process of improving Kim's bio, I think we should expand this section because I believe, once we mine the current sources more effectively and find other sources about Kim's post-amateur career, it has the potential to become another split-off article. It will require lots of research, so for now, I've copied and pasted the contents into one of my sandboxes. Other than a few minor tweaks and copyedits, I've left the content in Kim's bio alone. Then we can return here to split it off into a new article.

I also think that we should re-name the section to "Professional career", which better reflects the practice in other skaters bios. Best, Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 00:28, 13 November 2023 (UTC)


 * @Figureskatingfan I am fine with this, and will help, but can't read Korean unlike @Artemisialufkin Editor120918756 (talk) 13:22, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * @Editor120918756, thanks and i appreciate the offer for help. The positive thing about this bio and its ancillary articles is that for the most part, the research has already been done. I've been just making sure the links still work and then better mining them, which I've noticed is a major weakness currently. I've been depending upon Google translate but only adding content that's clear from the translation. I know that's not the best way, but I was going to ask one of our Korean language experts to look over the content and make sure that it's accurate. At any rate, I'll wait for more feedback, if anyone gives it, and then I'll rename the section. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 21:00, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * @Artemisialufkin@Figureskatingfan I think calling it "Yuna Kim's Show Skating Career" is fine by me, because it would cover her setting up her own show when she was competing, while avoiding messy conflicts based on terminology. Editor120918756 (talk) 10:32, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Apologies for the slow response, I've been on holiday. I'm also fine with splitting off this section. The only issue I have with the name is that "Professional career" to me implies post-competitive career, as the ISU used to make a big distinction between amateur and professional skaters. The section as it currently stands covers shows dating back to 2006, when Kim was very much still active as a competitor. I was also wondering if you have any plans to prune or split off other sections, as the article has now grown so long. Artemisia (talk) 23:50, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I suppose I don't really like the term "show skating," but since there's isn't a better one, I'm fine with it. Ed makes a good point and has talked me into keeping the title as is. Artemisia, you're right about the current version being too long. In addition to splitting off this section, what does everyone think of creating "Influence of Yuna Kim", which would contain all the content from the current "Skating technique" and "Artistry" sections? I know that we've already talked about this over at Talk:Media image and impact of Yuna Kim, but once we create this new one, maybe a section in it about her influence on figure skating would be warranted? I'm willing to wait until I'm finished with the improvements here and seeing how it would look. I again ask for your patience, as improvements are taking a very long time. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 17:35, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, that sounds like a good idea to me. Take as long as you need with the improvements, it is a very long and complicated article! Artemisia (talk) 12:08, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Improvements finally done
Hello everyone, I have finally competed, as previously promised, going through this bio. I checked all sources and mined most of them completely. I made some cuts and did some rewriting/rewording. The last thing I need to do is to complete a full copyedit, which I'll finish this week. Please look it over and tell me what you think.

We had talked about creating new articles, both here and at Talk:Media image and impact of Yuna Kim. There seemed to consensus at the other talk page to create "Show skating career of Yuna KIm", but I no longer think so because the new version is shorter now. Here are the new articles I propose be created:


 * "Skating technique of Yuna Kim" (with its subsections "Training" and "Impact on figure skating")
 * Figure skating artistry of Yuna Kim" (with its subsection "Collaboration with David Wilson")

If there's consensus, I'll go ahead and create the new articles. Does anyone have any other ideas? Anyway, this was fun (although at time arduous), but I think we're moving towards a high-quality bio about Yuna, who sorely deserves it. She, as many skaters do, has inspired me and increased my already-high admiration of her. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 00:24, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Your suggestions sound good to me. I wonder if technique and artistry should be combined into one article? I suppose it depends on the length of those sections. Thank you for all the work you've done - I'm pleased to see Yuna's bio so improved! Artemisia (talk) 10:48, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Artemisialufkin, you're welcome! I'll put the possible articles in sandboxes and let everyone see what they'd look like. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 16:41, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Figureskatingfan I'm fine with the first (Skating Technique of Yuna Kim). Wonder why we must say "Figure Skating Artistry of Yuna Kim" instead of just "Artistry of Yuna Kim"? Editor120918756 (talk) 13:08, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Editor120918756 You can see the proposed drafts below - it is currently titled "Artistry of Yuna Kim". Artemisia (talk) 14:25, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Update
Hi again, I've just placed the options for the proposed new articles in two of my sandboxes. As of this writing, I haven't yet copyedited either draft or added images yet. Questions and comments below:


 * Skating technique and influence of Yuna Kim: I added the section "Olympic ambassador" because I thought that it could fit there, since it's also about Kim's influence. What does everyone think?
 * Artistry of Yuna Kim: This is kind of a small article, which isn't a bad thing. However, I see two other options--keeping this section in the main bio, or combining the two drafts into one larger article and giving it the title "Artistry and influence of Yuna Kim." Personally, I kinda like the second option. (The note is to myself, to remind me about another project I'm kinda working on.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Figureskatingfan (talk • contribs) 19:43, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I also like the second option. I'm fine with including the Olympic ambassador section but I think it still needs to be mentioned in some capacity in the main article as it's been such an important part of her career. Artemisia (talk) 13:46, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Artemisialufkin, yah it should be mentioned in the synopsis of the forked article, which I'll write after I create the new article. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 19:28, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Everyone, I believe that I'm finished with going through this bio, including the drafting of one new article, currently in one of my sandboxes, User:Figureskatingfan/Sandbox 5. You'll see that instead of creating two or more new articles, I've drafted just one, with sections from the original bio. What do you think of doing that? Once I get feedback, I'll create the new article and write a summary in the bio. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 23:32, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Artemisialufkin@FigureskatingfanIt looks great! I'd like to add Yuna's impact on Korean skating there too though. Editor120918756 (talk) 12:52, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
 * It looks really good! Thank you for putting this together! Artemisia (talk) 12:57, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks @Editor120918756, @Artemisialufkin. Kim's impact on Korean skating is in the first paragraph in the "Impact on figure skating" section. I'll go ahead and move forward. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 16:57, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Figureskatingfan I mean on the current gen of Korean skaters. How many she inspired and what she's currently doing in Korea. If it's there, I might have missed it. Editor120918756 (talk) 17:59, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Editor120918756, I think so. Look at the end of the first paragraph in the Impact on figure skating section in the other article. I also included a short summary sentence in this bio. Should I add more here? At any rate, all I need to do is to re-check the sources for redundancies and update the access dates, and then I'll submit the Impact article to DYK. It's been a lot, but I'm proud of what we've accomplished with both articles. It's so satisfying to finish a big project like this! Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 19:59, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Figureskatingfan OK. If there's more, we can add it in later anyway.
 * Thanks for the help! You did a bulk of the work at the end, so I'm very grateful. Editor120918756 (talk) 05:13, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

A-Class nomination
Shall I nominate this for A-class assessment now? @Figureskatingfan @Artemisialufkin Editor120918756 (talk) 07:42, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
 * @Editor120918756 Sure, that sounds good to me! Artemisia (talk) 12:11, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
 * @Artemisialufkin, @Editor120918756 I'm trying to get the review procedure set up and having a bit of trouble, although I've reached out for some help. So please hold off on an assessment for now. I'm so glad that you're behind this, but hold your jets for a bit, please. ;) Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 17:20, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
 * @Artemisialufkin, @Editor120918756 you'll see above that everything's in place for our very first A-Class review. Please, everyone who's interested, participate. It took bloody forever! I'm very excited. Thanks in advance, and best. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 17:03, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @Figureskatingfan How do we go about this and begin? Editor120918756 (talk) 17:09, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @Editor120918756, go here for instructions about reviewing A-Class articles: WikiProject Figure Skating/Assessment/A-Class review. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 21:41, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Figure_Skating/Assessment/A-class_review @Figureskatingfan Editor120918756 (talk) 02:23, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

"Very long" tag
Earlier this week, the "very long" template was unnecessarily placed by User:Isaidnoway on this bio. Kim is a major athlete in her sport and there are lots of sources that cover her life and career, so the length of her bio is warranted. Babe Ruth, for example, a bio about a major athlete in his sport, an FA, and a level-4 vital article (this one is level-5), is over 18,500 words, while this one is much shorter, at almost 13,000 words. Please explain the reasons for the tag, which should be removed. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 17:30, 4 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Remove it if you think the template is inappropriate. Bgsu98   (Talk)  20:18, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The article is too long to read and navigate comfortably. When an article is too large, consider breaking it into smaller articles or spinning part of it out into a new article. Very long pages are particularly problematic for readers using slow internet connections or mobile devices.  This article has already experienced this issue of being too long when content had to be split off into Impact of Yuna Kim. See trimming and content removal and address the very long issue accordingly. Don't make it difficult for our readers to read and navigate this article.<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:blue"> Isaidnoway </b><b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:#03B54F">(talk)</b> 20:38, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @Isaidnoway, @Bgsu98: I will remove the template. I was hoping that we could keep this discussion in one place, but I refer you to the current discussion at the A-class assessment of this bio. (Scroll down towards the bottom.) Spoiler alert: comprehensiveness vs. article size. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 16:57, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * , It seems obvious to me that you have already made your mind up that your preferred version of the article being too long to read and navigate comfortably is the only version acceptable. We'll just put this article on our list of inaccessible articles that are too long to read and navigate comfortably for those readers with disabilities and readers using slow internet connections or mobile devices.<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:blue"> Isaidnoway </b><b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:#03B54F">(talk)</b> 17:37, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, and we'll start a list of the articles that you work on that are incomplete and incomprehensive. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 19:09, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The more complete and comprehensive (too long to read and navigate comfortably), you make this article, just means more readers will walk away from it. The length of an article doesn’t determine its quality, so longer doesn’t necessarily mean more useful content, it just means more content. According to a US government study, 71% of website visitors with disabilities will leave a webpage that is not accessible to them, and this page will be one of them.<b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:blue"> Isaidnoway </b><b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:#03B54F">(talk)</b> 23:20, 5 June 2024 (UTC)