Talk:Yuri Landman/Archive 1

General announcement from Yuri Landman
Some wikipedians consider this article as self promotion. To solve this concern I no longer edit this article. I will follow this discussion page and give answers to questions and I'll add factual news (always sourced, hopefully solid reliable) on this discussion page, so you can add it to the article if useful in content. I hope you will appreciate this solution.

Best wishes, YuriLandman 12:38, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Capital L?
There is inconsistency in this article and elsewhere on wikipedia as to whether or not Landman's last name is capitalized. Can someone who knows clear this up? -- Thanks, Doctormatt 20:08, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

It has been cleaned up. Thanks for the accuracy. Best, Houtlijm

I've deleted unverified claims. I'm against deletion because his instruments look special and Liars (band) is a famous band. I think I've cut out all the advertising crap and added a reference to the comic book chapter.Prophone 12:58, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I notice that the only editing you've done on Wikipedia is to this article and its talk page. I'm curious: can you explain how you came to be editing this article?  Thanks. Doctormatt 18:17, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Possible article additions

 * Instrument exhibition and a lecture in Muziekgebouw aan 't IJ of the tri-annual Output festival, edition 2007
 * Source: http://www.outputfestival.com/index.php?fuseaction=home.showPages&pagenr=15   YuriLandman 10:08, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Promotion and notability
Also see discussion on Springtime (guitar). That article may be a continuation of problems discussed here, i.e., conflict of interest, advertising, notability. Piano non troppo (talk) 09:09, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * the dutch Yuri Landman version has already been deleted in 2008 because of promotional reasons. That was an exact copy of the english version. Later on it has been completely rewritten to make it neutral Agora (talk) 11:24, 6 January 2009 (UTC)


 * It's apparent some good work has been put into the article. Personally, I'm interested. The discussion is interesting, and the article certainly puts me in the mind of trying one of his instruments. On the unfortunate side, the article is still an unacceptable combination of promotion, original research, and "how-to". It wanders way off topic -- the article is about a person -- not about music theory. Hence, I'm tagging it with irrelevant and bias tags. It's time to stop letting this guy get away with using Wiki as an advertising platform. Piano non troppo (talk) 08:36, 13 January 2009 (UTC)


 * This article looks unlogical to me. The extensive information about the Moodswinger in particular is pretty in depth and I assume for musicians involved with microtonal music very useful. Personally I think this information suits better in a separate article about the instrument itself, like on the other language wikis. I think a short compact bio like on the Dutch wiki would be very good. Mentioning his brief comic book artist carrier and his work as a musician to start with, then a 2nd chapter where his instruments and the involved bands are clearly mentioned and ending with a brief notification of his work as a acoustical expert with the presentations and essays included. That would make much more sense than this endless detailed enumeration in one article. The sources mentioned above as well as his essay 3rd bridge helix maintain enough information to adapt this to a solid neutral article. I don't think it would be a very big problem to change this article, but what if Landman is going to built instruments for an endless group of artists in the future? Regarding the fast development of his products and for which related artists he is making them for this is very plausible. How are we going to manage all his alternate instruments into a logical system? Recently one is made for Enon, not mentioned on wikipedia yet. It looks pretty similar to the Springtime, so I guess including it there would be the most logical option. 83.87.170.234 (talk) 12:50, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Your {irrelevant|date=January 2009}-tags are excellent in the sections. Just like I was mentioning above. The colour dotted tuning of the Moodswinger has nothing to do with the topic. I suggest a splitting up and not erase this info, otherwise people wouldn't understand a thing about the used scale on the instrument. So not irrelevant in general, but irrelevant for this topic and relevant for understanding the physics beyond the scale of the Moodswinger.83.87.170.234 (talk) 12:59, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Edit war/Conflict of Interest
There is a huge edit war going on on the Dutch Wikipedia. Probably also English messages will be dropped here. Moderators over there are not aware of the influence of Sonic Youth, Enon, Pitchfork, Lightning Bolt, Blood Red Shoes, Deus (band), Primavera Sound Festival, All Tomorrow's Parties (music festival), The Veils, Lou Barlow, Liam Finn, Vincent Moon, Half Japanese, Liars, The Dodos, HEALTH, Blonde Redhead, Yo La Tengo, etc. and the works of Yuri Landman himself, Therefore they are restricting and refusing to incorporate his work in the encyclopeadia. The main moderator is a housewife of 40 specialised in hockey and softball (hihihi!!!) and doesn't know shit about experimental rock. YL was a heavy spammer in 2007, open about that after a while, just like here and admitted it and got blocked there, but his position within the music business is so obvious nowadays for people who know a bit about indie rock and noise rock (see summarized blue links), which makes this hunting issue by dilletants totally out of proportion. I hereby ask everybody who is enjoying the works of this artist to take over the content of the involved articles and convince the silly housewife as much as possible she's totally wrong and harming your project by deleting educational data and cultural information. Landman released a vicious article about the circular reference effect of Wikipedia, which has increased the attention for his work a lot, also in a negative way for wikipedia-editors who believe in W, but this doesn't mean his work is Not Notable. The article is fun to read if you have doubts about workability of wikipedia and a bit naughty of course, readable as a pdf here:. The information loop in this case is not harming many people, consider it an efficient joke and imagine if such a thing would occur on political or more impact issues. Please check on Google about the endless list of publications his work has got in the past 2 years. Landman can be reached by mail on his own website www.hypercustom.com for questions if required. I got blocked over there as well, assuming I was YL, but I'm acutally just very, very close related. That's not forbidden I assume as long as I'm open about that. Best wishes and good luck with your website, 83.87.74.107 (talk) 19:29, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Interwiki promotional sockpuppets warning
as on nl:Overleg_gebruiker:Yuri_Landman: ''English version: Cross wiki active person who used the accounts and IP-addresse below for long time structural misuse of sockpuppets. It concerns edits on articles with more accounts to increase credibility and keeping them when nominated, promotion for the subject himself, Yuri Landman, his products (musical instruments like Moodswinger, Moonlander and Springtime), promotion for musical events, musical groups with whom the person has professional interests and dealings with. Influencing discussions and articles with more accounts, striving to keep articles created with more accounts and IP-addresses, concerning policy discussions as well as content like original musical research and promotion for himself and/or his products/activities. User has been addressed many times in the past, has promised over and over again to stop these unwanted activities but again and again restarted on wikipedia-nl and elsewhere. Created a whole cross-wiki network of articles enhancing and promoting his own professional activities for his own personal benefit. All accounts and used IP-addresses have been blocked on wikipedia-nl after extensive repeated checkusers and edit checking, some have been blocked as well on wikipedia-en where similar problems were encountered and partly dealt in a similar way. Below a list of accounts with cross wiki notes as well as a list of articles on wikipedia-nl that are made/manipulated with sockpuppets. Click on "uitklappen" on the blue bar below on the right to see the list of sockpuppets cross-wiki.'' For al list of the over a hundred nicknames / ip's and sockpuppets: nl:Overleg_gebruiker:Yuri_Landman. - Agora (talk) 08:15, 22 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Yep, indeed, I'm your personal nightmare, Agora. I make experimental musical instruments and they receive media and artists attention outside Wikipedia, although you don't believe that. NL wiki has given me a 100% block. I got in conflict with one of the most prominent moderators over there and she arranged this long term block herself. The text mentioned above are her words and her opinion. My conversations on email don't match with this interpretation of hers, but no solution seems possible so far. They want me to hand over my ID (veryfying I'm Y.L.???) and that is not what I'm willing to do. So I use multiple accounts to release info about bands, because NL wiki is very inaccurate on the field of indie rock and missing articles present on this EN version.

If you want info, please check www.hypercustom.com. For verification other online sources will provide you what is relevant to put in or exclude from the bio. I suggest to nominate this article for deletion since the debat about my work is a continuous annoyance for all concerned parties. If you need sources I'm willing to help you. You can find my email address on hypercustom. I'm not going to defend my own artist status on this website. Best wishes, Yuri Landman 2 (talk) 11:17, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Well Yuri Landman, I actually don't care much about your status as an artist. The article's are obvious enough with the given sources. But if you need more than a hundred names/ sockpuppets trying to contribute mostly on your own article or putting your own name in others articles, I call that more than serious abuse. And the use of all these names is not only on NL:wiki but international. And for the record: I'm not a moderator on NL:Wiki. Agora (talk) 07:12, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Feel free to revert when you think the inclusion of the information is irrelevant. The strange thing is you don't do that. Actually not so strange, since all is sourced well by third party publications. You only seem to care about me putting it in, because you dislike my motives and calling all my contributions abuse. I think that is a generalisation and your personal problem. On hypercustom.com you can find my email address. Feel free to contact me over there, since I don't know anybody with the name of Agora. I think it is more fair when we are both equal and you reveal your own identity. Otherwise I ask you not to work on this talk space and do your work in the name space to fight against me. Yuri Landman 2 (talk) 08:37, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Once again: I'm not interested in you as a subject on Wikipedia but a lot of your (our your alter ego's)contributions have been self promoting and name-dropping on several other article's. There isn't much discussion necessary about this because de message and the table with the over 100 aliases are clear. And Yuri Landman 2 can be added as alias 101. There is also no need to take this on a personal level because it's not. Agora (talk) 11:55, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * You appear to me as a severe searcher for vandalism and keep on following all things concerning Yuri Landman. That's fine by me, but keep it to the content and don't change the subject to the motive of the edits I put in. As far as I know on this English Wikipedia my edits are rather well done and accepted because they are plain right. The fact that I have an issue on the NL version, doesn't mean I perform in the same tradtion on this version. I don't have to promote the bands I work for on this one, since they are allready presented very well by others. That's the difference with your native language version. When I publish on the Dutch version about a band (I've made an instrument for) you immediatelly start accusing me of COI, promotion, etc. while I regard it filling the gaps. Once again I ask you not to hunt on me as a contributor but look at the edits per edits themselves. You are free to remove irrelevant information if you can find any, I'd like to have a clear true objective represententation of this subject just as much as you. If you generalize my edits to just name dropping YL than you did a poor job and neglect or didn't find my edits I did on other subjects. Let's shift to the main space and work over there on this subject. I'm willing to help you properize the content to good quality. Yuri Landman 2 (talk) 13:01, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I just saw you using the word self promo after I dropped my last reply on the talk space. The problem with self promo is that that is a subjective conviction of you. Since I was a 2007 spammer you have an understandable distrust in my edits. But me playing on a notable festival and then putting an article about the festival on the Dutch wikipedia, because I notice this odd gap in that wiki-version is not what I regard self promo. But it is regarded as such by others, apparantly including you. Sorry but I can't help you with that problem on your wikipedia. That means I can never add a band again where I'm attached to in a way? And now Rhys Chatham. I started his topic on the Dutch one, same goes for Lydia Lunch. One year later I was invited to participate on Chatham's G3 and I was having breakfast with Lydia last week and we played on the same festival. Her DJ tries to get me in another festival. See the point? I can never say an edit of a band contains no COI, because one year later it accidentally can and you can just scream COI to fuck me. Besides that, I include just factual sourced material. Promo is text like 'the most remarkable'. But the fact that info on wikipedia is promotion within itself, doesn't mean the edits are promotional. You seem to confuse these 2 different things. Yuri Landman 2 (talk) 13:22, 26 September 2009 (UTC)