Talk:Yusuf Adil Shah

Biography assessment rating comment
The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Jreferee 19:27, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Details
I have added some observations and references made by the scholar T.N. Devare that greatly enhances our understanding of Yusuf 'Adil Shah, and provides clear proof that contradicts the fictitious, albeit very popular account of Yusuf's Ottoman origins.--Jemiljan 21:14, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Infobox Monarch of Yusuf Adil Shah
Today I have added infobox of Yusuf Adil Shah giving details regarding his biodata - Muhammad Aslam Razvi MA of Bijapur dated Saturday, Eleventh April Two thousand Nine

Sources and undue weight
Currently, there are 3 sources concerning his ethnicity: Two stating Yusuf was a Georgian slave, One stating Yusuf was son of the Ottoman Sultan Murad: There is no reason to restore "Bahmani" nobleman, since it is unsourced. There is also no reason to place Turkish in the lead for his ethnicity, since that would be undue weight, per the sources. --Kansas Bear (talk) 15:28, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Chaurasia, Radhey Shyam (2002). History of Medieval India: From 1000 A.D. to 1707 A.D. p. 101, "Yusuf Adil Khan was a Georgian slave purchased by Mahmud Gawan."
 * Subrahmanyam, Sanjay (2012). Courtly Encounters: Translating Courtliness and Violence in Early Modern Eurasia. p. 101, "It was he who had created the Deccan sultanates, by handing over "his principal provinces to his servants and slaves" such as a certain Yusuf 'Adil Khan, "carver at his table, a Georgian by race."
 * Salma Ahmed Farooqui, A Comprehensive History of Medieval India: From Twelfth to the Mid-Eighteenth Century, (Dorling Kindersley, 2011), 174, "Yusuf Adil Khan of Turkish descent was the son of king Agha Murad of Turkey."

Another sources states,
 * International Dictionary of Historic Places: Asia and Oceania, ed. Trudy Ring, Robert M. Salkin, Sharon La Boda, page 125, "Yusuf Adil Khan's arrival in the Deccan is the subject of speculation among historians. Some believe he was born a slave in Russian Georgia and was later purchased by a minister to the Bahmani sultan. Others adhere to the legend that he was, in fact, the son of Sultan Murad II of Turkey and was whisked away to Persia as a child to avoid being killed when his older brother assumed the throne..." --Kansas Bear (talk) 15:48, 10 August 2014 (UTC)


 * The reference to TN Devare that I posted (subsequently removed for no particular reason given), not only discusses the primary, rather than secondary historical sources, but also provides that supposedly "missing" Bahmani source. According to Devare, this Ottoman legend is only related by Firishta, and no other source, hence a fabrication.Jemiljan (talk) 13:40, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Son of Murad II
I saw in many Turkish Sources that Yusuf Adil Shah was the son of Murad II as example: http://www.biriz.biz/osmanli/p6.htm

He was born posthumously in 1451.


 * And there are other reliable sources stating other origins. --Kansas Bear (talk) 03:46, 28 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Not all sources hold equal merit. This article has been extensively revised to cite secondary, but no primary historical sources. Before this page was apparently vandalised, I had previously posted an analysis of this legend by the scholar T.N. Devare demonstrating this legend was likely fabricated by the historian, Firishta, for no other source- Indian, Iranian, or Ottoman- relates it. Unfortunately, all of my references to Devare, Rafi Shirazi, and Firishta, etc, explaining this were removed. Here are some relevant passages that should be restored:


 * Scholar T.N. Devare found that historiographers of the time, Mir Ibrahim Lari-e Asadkhani, Ibrahim Zubayri (the author of the Basatin as-Salatin), primarily relied upon the account of Mir Rafi' al-Din Ibrahim-i Shirazi, whose history of the 'Adil Shahi dynasty was commissioned by Ibrahim Adil Shah II, and was completed in 1017/1608–09. Devare noted that while Rafi's account of the Bahmani dynasty is filled with anachronisms, his account of the Adilshahi is "fairly accurate, exhaustive, and possesses such rich and valuable information about Ali I and Ibrahim II" (312).


 * According to Rafi', Yusuf's full name was Sultan Yusuf 'Adil Shah Sava or Sava-i, the son of Mahmud Beg of Sava in Iran, (Rafi' 36-38, vide Devare 67, fn 2). Rafi-uddin later became the governor of Bijapur for about 15 years (Devare 316). In contrast, Devare found the legendary Ottoman origin was only related solely by Firishta (Devare 67, fn 2). While Firishta is persistently quoted, Devare determined that this legendary Ottoman lineage for the Adil Shahi dynasty was likely fabricated by Firishta to augment Sunni affiliations (Devare 272).


 * While these references to Devare were removed, his book is still listed at the bottom, but somehow the links to Firishta were deleted.

Jemiljan (talk) 13:29, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Kücük Ahmed alias Yusuf Adil Shah
Kücük Ahmed was born 1450 and was killed 1451.

It is said, that this Boy was saved by his Mother Tajunisa Halima.

And this boy was later named Yusuf adil shah, when he grew up in Iran. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.46.105.20 (talk) 14:58, 28 November 2014 (UTC)


 * So? We have multiple sources stating other origins which are equally represented within the article. Your edit(s) emphasizes one origin with an entire paragraph(unsourced) devoted to one origin, which is undue weight. --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:35, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Outdated source
This source is outdated c.1878, which is continued to be used by DurChalen to push his POV and edit warring. --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:38, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Origins
As recently changed by Simongraham:
 * "Yusuf Adil Shah was a son of the Ottoman Sultan Murad II.[2]. On the death of his father, he was to be executed by his brother, the future Mehmed the Conqueror, but escaped to Ardabil, from which he traveled to Sawa, Kashan, Isfahan and Shiraz, finally arriving in India in disguise about 1459.[3]. He was sold as a Georgian slave to the Prime Minster of the Bahmani Sultanate, Mahmud Gawan.''"

This is correct and properly represents what the book says. This is misrepresented and cherry-picked information. Since Bolar states, "The founder of the Adil Shahi dynasty was Yusuf Beg,a Turkman according to Munajjim Bashi, an  Ottoman  historian. He  belonged to the Aq-Quyunlu  or  the  “White Sheep” tribe of Diyarbykir in eastern Anatolia(Asia Minor). (Nayeem, 2008:22)". In comparison to the information that is actually used in a deceptive way to indicate historical fact, Bolar states, "Yusuf Adil Turk, was popularly believed to be a prince of the Ottoman dynasty of Rum.". "Popularly believed" meaning not historical fact. Which oddly is the exact opposite of how Simongraham has presented this information. --Kansas Bear (talk) 15:59, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
 * 2. Farooqui, Salma Ahmed (2011). A Comprehensive History of Medieval India: From Twelfth to the Mid-Eighteenth Century. Dorling Kindersley. p. 174.
 * 3. Bolar, Varija R (2012). "Turks in Karnataka" (PDF). International Journal of Social Studies 4 (1): 423-424.

Previously posted on the talk page concerning the legend of Yusuf Adil's Ottoman ancestry:
 * International Dictionary of Historic Places: Asia and Oceania, ed. Trudy Ring, Robert M. Salkin, Sharon La Boda, page 125, "Yusuf Adil Khan's arrival in the Deccan is the subject of speculation among historians. Some believe he was born a slave in Russian Georgia and was later purchased by a minister to the Bahmani sultan. Others adhere to the legend that he was, in fact, the son of Sultan Murad II of Turkey and was whisked away to Persia as a child to avoid being killed when his older brother assumed the throne..." --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:08, 22 May 2016 (UTC)