Talk:Yves Engler

Message
I consider this page to be a vanity page and I am recommending it for deletion. Knave75 07:06, 5 December 2005 (UTC)


 * He is quoted elsewhere in the Wikipedia. Perhaps those quotes should get yanked, but nevertheless, I would have had more difficulty in determining how to weigh the value of his commentary without this article. &mdash;BozoTheScary 23:19, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Biography assessment rating comment
The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Jreferee 19:53, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Nominate for deletion
I agree that this page reads like a vanity project, and have removed all stories about the his escapades, leaving only the books he has published. But I would also like to nominate it for deletion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kirstenruby (talk • contribs) 16:20, 3 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Such a nomination for deletion would be inappropriate, given the subject — as a published author of multiple books — clearly meets the notability requirement for biographical articles on Wikipedia (plus the national media attention he has garnered). If you do not like the tone or POV of the article, please rework the content per the applicable Wikipedia guidelines. I have returned most of the content you removed from the article, slightly restructuring and rewording where I thought appropriate. I did leave out the two parts that had “citation needed” flags given that WP:BLP guides us to not include any material lacking suitable citation in biographies of living persons. —GrantNeufeld (talk) 18:59, 3 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. But I removed the following paragraph because it is vague, reads like an opinion, and has very little to do with him.  If you want to talk about how his book references these things, that's fine, but the section I removed (below) is not worded that way.


 * "Engler also highlighted Canada's subsequent participation in the United Nations occupation of Haiti and the training of the Haitian national police by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, which Engler and others have asserted has resulted in an ongoing campaign of murder, imprisonment, and political repression targeted against supporters of the Lavalas party and opponents of the un-elected interim government headed by Florida resident Gerard Latortue.[3]"


 * Engler also highlighted... (where? how?)


 * which Engler and others have asserted... how does this relate to a biographical encyclopedia entry? ...in an ongoing campaign... this has nothing to do with him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kirstenruby (talk • contribs) 00:23, 6 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I second the nomination. Self-promoting pseudo-intellectual. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.84.244.11 (talk • contribs) 18:18, 27 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Engler has written numerous books and well known and respected in left-wing social media. I suspect the reason for deletion has more to do with his political leanings, than with fact. Deleting this article would be silly, as the article provides interesting details about him and lists other books that will be of interest to his audience.
 * --Everett (talk) 00:10, 23 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep -- I, like Everett and GrantNeufeld, do not see a valid justification for deleting this page about an established author. A quick look at Google Scholar shows that his books are amply cited by scholarly researchers. He is a contributor to Huffington Post (Canada). A Google News search of his name shows many entries related to the topics of his books. In my opinion, deletion would be disproportionate and should not even need to be discussed. Denis.g.rancourt (talk) 16:15, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Canada messing with Haiti - not mentioned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.68.248.198 (talk) 23:10, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

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Controversy
My edits keep getting reverted by what seems to be a biased user. I would try to take the relevant comments into account (some ignore other details), but I suspect he will revert anyway and I'm not interested in an edit war. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=869795642&oldid=869749826&title=Yves_Engler — Punkyboy (talk) 19:39, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Biography section deficient
The biography section seems seriously deficient and lacks proper references. The Globe and Mail article only supports the statement the Engler protested against a speech by Netanyahu and was suspended. The Winnipeg Jewish Review doesn't seem to be a reliable source. The Rabble is barely better, and the reference adds nothing about the Netanyahu protest.

There should be better references if it's stated that Engler did anything more specific than simply protest. Windows might have been broken (big deal) and people might have been assaulted during the protest (a bigger deal), but in the absence of any alleged link between the windows and the assaults and Engler, this seems to be gratuitous guilt by association. Nothing about Engler's involvement seems particularly notable. 2607:F0B0:7:838D:88A3:3E37:CAA1:B6AF (talk) 22:28, 22 June 2021 (UTC)


 * I've reworked the Biography section using only reliable sources and renamed it. The Globe and Mail is a reliable source, but I don't know whether an opinion article in the Globe is. Please remove the reference if it's inappropriate. 104.192.232.20 (talk) 23:42, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
 * The so-called reworking of the Biography section that you have done doesn't actually improve the article in any way, this is why I have reverted your edits. As I mentioned in my previous edit summaries, you can't simply continue reverting someone's edits as that constitutes edit warring. One revert is allowed, and that was mine. Subsequent disagreements are to be dealt with on the talk page, which is what you should've done but instead you insist on reverting. This is not acceptable. A couple of tips for you: become a registered user; stop edit warring; try to achieve an agreement with other editors before imposing your changes. As I mentioned in my last edit summary, if you revert again, I will request the page be semi-protected so that you, an unregistered user, are no longer able to continue your activity. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 15:41, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I explained my changes on the talk page all along, and I said so. I can write here, but I can't reach an agreement by talking to myself. You've now posted here.
 * I changed the section to remove the reference to the Winnipeg Jewish Review, which isn't a reliable source. The Rabble isn't terribly reliable, and it didn't add anything to what the Globe already said.
 * On the other hand, I added a link to a reliable source that says what Engler was actually accused of. The sources mention a five-year suspension, and I added this. I can't find a reliable source that mentions a "permanent suspension", which seems contradictory. I've also added a reference to an opinion article in the Globe. The Globe itself is reliable, but I don't know whether an opinion article is suitable. The reference can be removed if it's inappropriate.
 * There were statements regarding the protest or riot. The source was the unreliable source I already mentioned. In addition, the statements dealt with the protest in general rather than anything Engler did. I left the link to the Wikipedia page regarding the protest itself, but removed the statements that didn't deal with Engler specifically.
 * Finally, I changed the section's title, "Biography". It wasn't an actual biography, but dealt only with a specific matter. I used "Concordia University". This seems appropriate, or "Suspension from Concordia University", or something of the sort.
 * I look forward to reading your comments that actually deal with these changes and the reasons for them. 104.192.232.38 (talk) 22:41, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for not reverting once more. This is definitely the forum to reach an agreement on contentious issues. Here are a few points I have:
 * - How did you establish that the Winnipeg Jewish Review or the Rabble are not reliable sources?
 * - Fair point about the source mentioning the five-year suspension.
 * - Fair point about changing Biography to Concordia University.
 * Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 23:40, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank for for participating in the discussion you've repeatedly asked me to have.
 * Google gives 27 hits for the Winnipeg Jewish Review, including mentions in Facebook, Twitter, and the like. It does not appear in List of Jewish newspapers, nor in the Wikipedia category "Jewish newspapers published in Canada". It seems to be a one-woman operation. Much of its content seems to be reprints (sometimes with light editing) of articles published elsewhere, or links to other articles.
 * I don't have a strong opinion about Rabble.ca. It's a Website. According to Media Bias/Fact Check, it has a moderate to strong left bias, but it's rated "High" for factual reporting. In this case, I was mostly influenced by the fact that it added nothing that was not already mentioned in more reliable sources. 2607:F0B0:7:838D:DDC7:1F0A:6F40:E108 (talk) 00:41, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * You can drop the attitude now, it's really not necessary. The main thing is that we're having a conversation, isn't it? My feeling is that unless the Winnipeg Jewish Review is a deprecated site, there is no strong reason to consider it unreliable. As for the Rabble, it sounds like you're biased so I would leave it. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 00:51, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm inclined to agree with Revirvlkodlaku. I checked back in on this page today after having edited it sometime ago, and any cohesion or clarity in the biography section had been successfully destroyed. I don't see any reason to dismiss the sources being used. None of them have been depreciated, and the series of events described in the current edit is basically uncontroversial, but it's difficult to find good coverage of the event that focuses on Engler to any extent. There is probably something from the Montreal Gazette from the time, and I'll take a look when I have a moment.Loquacious Folly (talk) 19:42, 1 July 2021 (UTC)