Talk:Zack Snyder's Justice League/Archive 1

Darkseid
Ray Porter plays Darkseid https://mobile.twitter.com/Ray__Porter/status/1263982099377188864 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 179.14.73.108 (talk) 00:53, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Incorporated. JOE BRO  64  19:26, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Green Lantern??
an actor called Sam Benjamin said in an interview that he played (a) Green Lantern and was cut from the theatrical cut. also on twitter said his scene was cut. should his name be added to the characters list as a as of yet, unknown character or? (https://www.reddit.com/r/DC_Cinematic/comments/8u9un5/social_media_sam_benjamin_about_his_justice/) and (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGUUMIGuxGU) Phoenix (talk) 19:18, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
 * If it hasn't been confirmed they will be in the HBO release, then they shouldn't be included just yet. Darkseid is here because it's been confirmed that he'll be in the cut. JOE BRO  64  19:56, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
 * got it, thanks Phoenix (talk) 17:13, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I think this is still rumor but supposedly Ryan Reynolds is in talks to do cameo. (https://cosmicbook.news/ryan-reynolds-returning-green-lantern-snyder-cut) MoviePhan (talk) 21:10, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

Ciaran Hinds
There a reason Ciaran Hinds isn't listed in the cast list? He played Steppenwolf in regular version and was vocal about his support for a Snyder Cut back in the day.Valkyrie Red (talk) 23:28, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

EDIT- Ray Porter confirmed he filmed scenes with Ciaran. https://comicbook.com/movies/news/justice-league-snyder-cut-darkseid-massive-role-confirmed-ray-porter/ Valkyrie Red (talk) 23:33, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

First mention of the title
Is this worth adding? The first time this title was mentioned? -- Kailash29792 (talk)  19:08, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Music
What's the source of Mark Holkenborg as composer of the music?OscarFercho (talk) 00:10, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Reshoots
, please stop edit warring. IGN is a reliable source, and you haven't provided any evidence to suggest it shouldn't be trusted in this instance. JOE BRO  64  12:22, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

I have provided evidence. IGN has gotten stuff in the past wrong before. Furthermore, Warner Bros. has not said there wont be additional photography so why add that? Zack himself has said he wants to. You should add that while it hasn’t been confirmed, Zack has hinted he wants to do additional photography, etc. Also please use correct terminology. He is doing additional photography, not reshoots. Mtj456 (talk) 12:30, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Please provide sources to back up your claim. The source (which is listed as reliable at WP:RSP and WP:VG/S) supports the claim, which yes, relates to reshoots. You haven't provided anything except "IGN has been wrong before!" This is based on an account from a journalist with a strong track record and proven industry connections. Again, do not continue edit warring. You will be blocked if you do. Also "hinting" isn't outright confirmation JOE BRO  64  12:40, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Also, Variety recently reported that "while Snyder has said there won't be any reshoots for this version, it will likely cost tens of millions for finished visual effects and other post-production work to complete the film." (emphasis mine) JOE BRO  64  18:49, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

12 July 2020 edit request
Greetings and felicitations. In the Short description template, please change "2021 Director's Cut of 2017 film" to "2021 director's cut of the 2017 film" (correcting capitalization and grammar). —DocWatson42 (talk) 06:58, 12 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Never mind—I was now able to do it myself. —DocWatson42 (talk) 08:13, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Access to editing
Hey, I was just wondering how I can be granted access to edit this article and update it with the necessary content and new info that can be included to help strengthen the article and keep it up to date. FilmLover72 (talk) 18:37, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
 * The article was protected due to edit warring. Once the protection expires, you will be able to edit it again. JOE BRO  64  18:46, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Ok, thank you FilmLover72 (talk) 19:35, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Name change?
Apparently the title "Zack Snyder's Justice League" is currently in the middle of a legal dispute per CBR and Insider among other sources reporting the same thing. Until the title is official, should the article be updated to refer to it as a "working title" and should the page title be changed to Untitled HBO Max Justice League project or something like that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fezmar9 (talk • contribs)
 * Oppose changing the article name, unless a new name is announced. --Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 16:46, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Agreed, this is the common name for the work. If it is officially retitled, then we can look at moving it. BOVINEBOY 2008 18:10, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Title is the current common name for the movie project, so oppose any move. --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 10:33, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Would anyone oppose a footnote added to the lead explaining the name is not final and may change before release? Fezmar9 (talk) 13:49, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Movie or miniseries
Do we treat this as a miniseries now that it's been split in four hour-long episodes? El Millo (talk) 22:05, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
 * What's the difference in treatment? Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 22:07, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
 * For starters, different infobox. El Millo (talk) 22:28, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Would we just be using a different infobox for the sake of it, or would actually have different content in it? Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 22:32, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
 * We would be using a different infobox because, as this is now a mini-series, it's the correct infobox to use. --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions)
 * Runtime by episodes instead of the full runtime, for example. El Millo (talk) 22:43, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Title is both a 4-part limited series and a single film, per FanDome Panel and multiple media outlets. A film is still a valid classification.Purple Fork (talk | contributions) 22:48, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Source(s)? El Millo (talk) 22:53, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Per Variety, "Snyder said the film will be released on HBO Max in 2021 in four, one-hour segments, as well as having an option to watch it as an unbroken four-hour movie. " Purple Fork (talk) 23:45, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Any mini-series can be watched as an "unbroken movie" if you binge watch each episode. Quote Snyder: "We’ll find a way of bundling it [the four 1-hour episodes] all together at the end." Deadline The film is now being released as a mini-series, so the infobox needs to be updated to reflect that. --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 11:38, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Martian Manhunter?
no Martian Manhunter anymore? Qwertzu111111 (talk) 15:31, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Unknown. Since DeSaad is back in it, it is likely J'onn J'onzz will also return, but it has not yet been confirmed. --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 17:05, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

DCEU Canon
So, during an interview with Grace Randolph and during a panel at Justice Con 2020, Zack has stated that, with the way the DCEU has formed, his version wouldn’t really fit with how things have gone. So, he says it is not DCEU canon or an Elseworlds version of Justice League. But, how come whenever I include this detail, it always gets removed. What’s up with that? FilmLover72 (talk) 00:11, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello? Is anyone going to respond to this? FilmLover72 (talk) 21:37, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , it has not even been 24 hours. Give it time. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 21:40, 29 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Ok FilmLover72 (talk) 21:52, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I can only see that you added (or rather, reverted the removal of) such information once, and this was itself removed by @User:RomanHawk7 along with the claim that "Again what Zack Snyder says [the the film is non-canon] has yet to be confirmed by Warner Bros. and HBO-Max." This appears to be deliberately onerous arguement as WB and HBO are not likely to confirm the movie is not canon. RomanHawk's edit summary is also self-contradictory. If you wish to add the information back in, I would recommend doing so whilst avoid use of the word "confirmed". --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 09:53, 30 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Ok, thanks for the help FilmLover72 (talk) 11:19, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

But how do we know Zack Snyder is is right? Howncan we take his word for it? It would be best to wait and see if his version is canon or non-canon. But then again that's me. There are other people out their who may not agree with what has been posted. RomanHawk7 (talk) 15:55, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
 * He is the director. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 16:09, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Zack Snyder may be a director but he is one of several director who directs for WB, he doesn't run the franchise he simple directs. There is no other problems on other pages. I'm just saying that what I say is backed up by some truth. That Jason Momoa has also stated that Zack Snyder's Justice League will have multiple connections to the DCEU and even will lead into Aquaman. ScreenRant has an article that is titled "Justice League: Every Aquaman connection cut from the theatrical cut of Justice League". Just as Snyder told Grace Randolph about his continuity, Momoa has told his continuity. I think this should be taken into consideration. RomanHawk7 (talk) 16:18, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Also on other DCEU pages on Wikipedia it does not say that Zack Snyder's version is non-canon some even say that either or is canon. Even Jason Momoa himself said that Aquaman "takes place" after Snyder's Justice League. So let's not jump the gun here. RomanHawk7 (talk) 16:02, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
 * If there is a problem on other pages go and fix it, don't try to ruin this one for consistency. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 16:09, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

If FilmLover72 can put their post about Snyder's non-canon, then can I put up my post about Jason Momoa's canon?, I have my source. Just FilmLover72 he has their source. RomanHawk7 (talk) 16:23, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Replace template
According to, Zack Snyder's Justice League has been confirmed to be a 4-part miniseries.  Can you please replace Infobox film to Infobox television in the page?

Thanks. St3095  (?)  10:44, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , please see the above section. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 11:24, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
 * which the above section? This section? St3095   (?)  11:43, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
 * #Movie or miniseries. -- Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 11:54, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The runtime should be 1 hour, since that parameter is for episodes runtime. El Millo (talk) 13:52, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Agreed, though a note should probably be included since, to the best of my knowledge, only the fact that it is 240 minutes total split into four equal-length parts has been stated. --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 17:02, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Sure, but all outlets are reporting it pretty clearly as four episodes. It's okay to put it at least until new info appears. El Millo (talk) 20:31, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
 * An "hour-long episode" doesn't necessarilly mean 60 minutes worth of footage. Does it account for ad breaks? (I know that these are unlikely in a streaming service, but anything released on TV and described as "hour long" is usually about 45 minutes footage, plus 15 minutes ads. Upon reflection, I'm more inclined to leave the 240 minutes figure out completely until we have a confirmed runtime. --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 11:17, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Hour-long could be just an estimate, but ads are out of the picture since this is HBO, and more precisely HBO Max. That would be the streaming service of a channel that already doesn't have ad breaks. El Millo (talk) 18:21, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I've modified the draft infobox to remove the estimated runtime and placed the source against the episode count, since that is specifically what is mentioned in said source. I believe that all it now needs is the poster image, and it's good to go. EDIT: Should Justice League be included in the based_on field? --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 09:22, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * It is not really based on JL, but related to. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 17:00, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , how about this one? I've just put  on Infobox TV.  St3095   (?)  17:38, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * It says related shows though. El Millo (talk) 18:21, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * We don't necessarily need to link to the original movie in the infobox, since it's already mentioned in-article. It was just a thought. --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 10:05, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Right, I've added the budget in (temporarily removed the source so that it doesn't mess with Talk Page formatting). Unless there are any objections, I think we can add this into the article now? --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 15:00, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

The Flash
A minor point, but one worth raising, I think; DC Fandome recently confirmed that this version of Barry Allen adopts the name "the Flash" after his cameo appearance in Crisis on Infinite Earths, which takes place, chronologically, after the events of Justice League (and by extension, the Snyder Cut). As a result, I have this feeling that listing him as "Barry Allen / The Flash" in the Cast section is, technically, incorrect. What are peoples thoughts on removing the moniker and simply leaving it as Barry Allen? --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 11:14, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
 * In Crisis Oliver did not just change the Arrowverse shows I think, but obviously that is an in universe explanation. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 16:43, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
 * My point is that within the DCEU continuity, this verison of Barry Allen is not–as of the film Justice League–yet called "The Flash", so it seems to me disingenuous to name him as such in the cast section. Of course, if he's named as such in the credits then I shall defer. --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 18:59, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Actually it looks like you were right as per this link. I have removed the name now. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 21:28, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
 * [edit-conflict] I think that's just a detail. We still call him Flash in BvS and in Justice League; Wanda and Pietro Maximoff are called Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver in the MCU, even though they're not named. He dresses like the Flash, has the power of the Flash, and the alter-ego of the Flash. Plus, he's widely called the Flash by all reliable sources. El Millo (talk) 21:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)


 * This strikes me as WP:FANCRUFT. He's still credited as the Flash, so we should call him that. I think it's too fannish to not call him that because he's not going by that name in-universe yet. For instance, the Dark Knight Rises version of Catwoman isn't called Catwoman in the movie, but that's how she's credited, so that's what we call her. JOE BRO  64  21:34, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Where is he credited as the Flash? It is not in the given source. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 22:32, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , JOE  BRO  64  22:38, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth, I made the sacrifice to view Justice League on Netflix so that I could read the credits, and he is credited as "The Flash/Barry Allen" in that version of the movie, so I see no reason why it would be different here. --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 13:17, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

Title
Article about the title Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 19:52, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I feel like we need a more authoratative source than Gamespot to consider it particularly reliable. --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 11:41, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Some more -- Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 22:11, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
 * The sources you've provided merely speculate a possible title change. From the IGN article you've provided, "There's no word yet on if Justice League: Director's Cut is the name Warner Bros. will stick with, but it is interesting to see it pop up for the FanDome event." This Wikipedia article already states the title may change in the first sentence through a note. It's possible the official title may change to Justice League: Director's Cut, but it's equally possible that Zack Snyder's Justice League is under a legal dispute and HBO Max needed to use a temporary name on promotional materials until the dispute is settled. Let's wait until the dust settles. Fezmar9 (talk) 15:30, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Release the Snyder cut movement section
Shouldn't there be more in the section about members of the media harassing members of the Snyder cut movement? Pineapple4321 (talk) 16:53, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Do you have published sources for this information? Fezmar9 (talk) 16:55, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Number of episodes
Wanted to find some consensus so I can avoid partaking in an edit war. On all television articles I've ever seen and worked on, the procedure is to add episodes of a series as they air. This ranges from long series like soap operas down to three episode miniseries that air over a week. I took this right from Template:Infobox television's documentation about the "num_episodes" parameter, but when I removed the episode count here, I was reverted twice and told that it's sourced so it's fine. I disagree, and don't see why this article should differ from every other television article, but I wanted to get other opinions. I'll also post on WT:TV for extra eyes. Sock  ( tock talk)  11:03, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi Sock. Typically, I would agree with you that we should add episodes as they air, but this only really applies to an on-going show without a predetermined number of episodes. Strictly speaking, Zack Snyder's Justice League ("ZSJL") is a mini-series, which will only ever have four episodes. We know this for a fact and can provide a citation to that affect, so keeping the field empty until the episodes themselves air serves no purpose beyond withholding public information. --Jasca Ducato (talk &#124; contributions) 11:31, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Concerning this only really applies to an on-going show without a predetermined number of episodes. Since when? Is there a precendent for this, or documentation or guidelines to support this? -- / Alex /21  11:58, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Even for a "normal" miniseries or limited series, where we know ahead of time the amount of episodes it will be, we still wait to add to the infobox per the consensus that is the infobox documentation. Keep the info in the lead, release section, and perhaps the history section if desired, and then add episodes to the infobox once they are released weekly. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:57, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I've removed it from the infobox and added a hidden note. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:59, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I saw 's discussion invitation on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television. Per Template:Infobox television, this parameter should only be incremented when new episodes air. Yes, we know the limited series will consist 4 episodes, but this belongs in the prose. We wait till it airs because it otherwise falls under WP:NOTCRYSTAL. The parameter refers as the number of aired/released episodes. The keywords are aired/released. We don't know if they will release all the episodes or not. — Young Forever (talk)   18:23, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Runtime
I've started a discussion here: Template talk:Infobox television to discuss the on-going issue of the runtime field being changed to 240 minutes, and how we can resolve this issue at a higher level. Input is appreciated. -- JascaDucato (talk &#124; contributions) 13:23, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

I agree, runtime is over 2 hrs Iwantacrepe (talk) 16:04, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Title
So, just out of curiosity, what is the title of this film? Because Zack Snyder has stated that it WILL be called "Zack Snyder's Justice League", but other media outlets say its called "Justice League: Director's Cut". So, which is it? FilmLover72 (talk) 21:42, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * We don't know what the final title will be. Both names have been floated by different parties who hold equal levels of "reliability" in the eyes of Wikipedia. For now, we're sticking with Zack Snyder's Justice League on the grounds of WP:COMMONNAME. -- JascaDucato (talk &#124; contributions) 09:28, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Making half of the section about the petioners being "toxic" and harassers is WP:UNDUE
Right now every mention of their movement in the article is associated with harassment or vitrol, but this isn't the general sentiment from WP:RS, aside from very few articles written before the release was confirmed. One of the sources of these statements is "Pajiba", a website that appears to be a gossip blog and doesn't even have a Wiki page, so I'm pretty certain it's not a reliable source. This needs to be heavily trimmed down Loganmac (talk) 13:52, 14 February 2021 (UTC)


 * I reviewed the content and do not find it undue. Most of the sources are reliable, though I do agree that Pajiba is likely unreliable. Still, without that, there are still other sources. Furthermore, Rehak's commentary at the end of the section puts the behavior in context. Erik (talk &#124; contrib) (ping me) 14:52, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

Additional Details & Sources
So, recently Zack revealed during a March 2021 issue of Total Film that the additional photography lasted from October 6 to October 8 and is an additional 8-10 minutes of the movie. He also revealed that Man of Steel, Batman v Superman, and Justice League (his version that is), are exist within their own continuity and that this was set to be primer for two more Justice League films that might not even happen. But, I don’t know how to source print media and I was wondering if someone could help me out on that front. FilmLover72 (talk) 21:17, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Move soundtrack album to new page now that they have been released
I think we should move the soundtrack album to a new page seeing that this is one of the biggest list, (for example Star Wars Soundtrack) and they need a seperate page rather than cluttering an already cluttered page. 103.118.35.209 (talk) 10:01, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
 * There's a difference between the Star Wars soundtracks, which covers 9+ films, and a long list of music pieces for a single film. To my knowledge, splitting the soundtrack off into a new article based purely on a section being long isn't valid grounds. -- JascaDucato (talk &#124; contributions) 10:06, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Martian Manhunter description contains an error
In the "Cast" section, when it gets to Martian Manhunter, the second sentence says: "The Lennix alter-ego is revealed to have been the Martian Manhunter all along." This is incorrect, as "Lennix" is the actor who plays the character. The sentence should read "The Swanwick alter-ego is revealed to have been the Martian Manhunter all along." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.152.106.131 (talk) 12:20, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ -- JascaDucato (talk &#124; contributions) 12:33, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Budget
The movie's budget is deceptive since the $70 million was just to finish this cut and does NOT include the original costs to make the film from its production in 2017. It should include a note saying the original production cost $300 million to make, and the $70 million was to complete the film. I'd give an estimate this film cost $350-370 million dollars all up. Colliric (talk) 13:52, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
 * There used to be a note covering exactly this point, but it was clearly removed at some point. I've put it back in. -- JascaDucato (talk &#124; contributions) 15:30, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 March 2021
I would like to edit the page because they missed out a very pivotal detail in the plot 70.29.44.178 (talk) 16:36, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Please detail the exact edit you'd like made, or request a lowering of protection at WP:RFPP ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:43, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Runtime
The movie was released in streaming version with a 232 min runtime, so I'm guessing the IMDB listed 242min official runtime is for the planned IMAX/cinema limited release version(which will probably be the Blu-ray version too) which includes the 10mins of Intermission music?

Since Intermission music officially counts towards a film's official runtime.

Can someone confirm that though? Colliric (talk) 03:47, 19 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Variety reports a 242-minute runtime in their review, so I guess we'll have to go with that until there's a better RS for the alleged 232-minute runtime. Nincompoopian (talk) 09:54, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Oh no don't worry mate I had it cleared up. Someone told me there was the 10 mins "Thank you" video which was included in the US version but it was omitted in the overseas version.

So we all got to see the same film. Lol.

Maybe should be a note on that?? Colliric (talk) 06:01, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
 * The 232 run time is because of the different encoding used as explained by hbo europe. ntsc vs pal. the movie is exactly the same (credits + movie), but the 232min run is running at different frame rate thus it is shorter (1 frame less per seconds over 4 hours result in significant time difference). -119.74.220.3 (talk) 07:41, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

No. The 10min Thank You video was omitted. I also read that, but that is just their excuse. In reality it's because the US runtime included the 10 minute video of Snyder fans where as the international version didn't.Colliric (talk) 09:15, 20 March 2021 (UTC)


 * That thank you video is hardly 10 minutes. -2401:7400:4008:5E65:1:1:5EF8:3ACE (talk) 14:47, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Not sure where you read that but believe what you want. the thank you video is only a few seconds not even a minute, definitely NOT 10 minutes. it is simply the pal vs ntsc encoding which results in international version playing at 1.04x speed. -119.74.220.3 (talk) 15:12, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
 * https://screenrant.com/justice-league-snyder-cut-uk-runtime-shorter-reason/ -- Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 15:40, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Robin Wright?
Is there any studio confirmation as to whether Robin Wright will reprise her role as Antiope in the Snyder Cut? She's listed in the cast on the movie's IMDb page, and some fans online have claimed to see her in the trailer. I'm wondering if there's a more official source for it, or if we just need to wait a couple weeks when we can watch the actual movie's credits to confirm. Moloch dhalgren (talk) 22:34, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Yes she in the flashback sequence. Colliric (talk) 16:53, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Diana ending
I don't think she got a new message, I think she's realizing that she just found her way home with how the arrow ended up there. 2604:3D08:4C81:C400:BC9A:FE77:433B:7BA9 (talk) 18:41, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

Misrepresentation of Martin Scorsese
There is a quote from a film critic on here misrepresenting Scorsese. It states his feelings on a film he never said anything about. This seems to be subjectively misleading. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 18:44, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
 * No it doesn't. The reviewer is stating that he agrees with Scorsese's sentiments and that this film avoids the problems Scorsese complained about. Scorsese is not being misrepresented; we are merely presenting a direct quote from a critic. JOE BRO  64  18:46, 21 March 2021 (UTC)


 * You just made my point. The critic claims to speak for Scorsese. Scorsese never said this film avoids those problems at all. He hasn't publicly said anything about this film. This critic didn't interview him. He hasn't talked to him about the movie. He can't read Scorsese's mind. The direct quote being presented claims to know what Scorsese thinks about the film with absolutely zero input from him. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 18:56, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
 * The critic doesn't claim to speak for Scorsese, but the quote doesn't seem very useful. Including it here assumes that every reader is aware of what Scorsese said about Marvel films, who clarified later that he doesn't even watch them in the first place. I think that, in order to include it, an explanation on Scorsese's comments should be included as well, which would in turn become an WP:UNDUEWEIGHT issue. Overall, it's best to avoid it. We could easily pick any other quote from this review. —El Millo (talk) 19:03, 21 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Sounds ok to me. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 19:28, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Didn't you just say it was misleading? Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 20:32, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
 * It to pick a different quote, not the quote currently used. —El Millo (talk) 21:32, 21 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Yes. It's misleading and we should pick a different quote. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 14:56, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

Cast section
Information containing no new cast members does not belong here. It's for listing cast and the characters they portray with possibly some info pertaining to the character or the actor's approach to their character. When adding info about CGI and filming that lists no new cast members please make sure to include that in a production or filming section. Thank you. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 20:05, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

GamesRadar+
Since when is this a reliable source for movies, especially when it contradicts highly-reliable industry insider sources? Toa Nidhiki05</i> 17:39, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
 * FYI, contradicting other sources' opinion of the critical reception doesn't make a source unreliable. <small style="font color:black">ภץאคгöร 18:33, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
 * When it’s a non-expert source that is generally focused on another field entirely (video games) contradicting actual industry expert sources, yeah, that doesn’t lend well to its usage. Is GamesRadar+ generally accepted as a reliable source for film, and one that can lend credence to a claim not backed up by industry expert film sources? <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i> <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i> 19:34, 22 March 2021 (UTC)


 * For clarity, what specifically are you referring to? What does it say? What contradicts it from what sources? It's hard for me and I'm sure others to voice an opinion without knowing the specifics. Generally speaking I don't know if it's reliable and it's probably better to use a more credible source. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 19:55, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
 * In the Reception section, Variety, The Hollywood Reporter, and the TheWrap note reception to the film was more positive than the theatrical cut. GamesRadar+ claims the reaction was mixed as to whether the film was better or worse than the theatrical, which is a claim not backed up by the three movie-centric sources, RT/Metacritic scores, or the brunt of reviews. <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i> <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i> 20:00, 22 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Well that's a bit too subjective to change in my opinion. Honestly, if we have them all then I think the more reliable sources are given more weight. Technically they're all right. It is mixed, although I believe that may be slightly misleading because overall the new cut has been received better. I think by having the comparative Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic scores readers who read this section will see it was received better. I think it's better to keep it in order for Wikipedia to do its best to remain neutral unless it's on the list of unreliable sources. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy (talk) 20:25, 22 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Well, looks like you still haven't noticed this, but GamesRadar+ is the website where SFX, Edge and Total Film contents are published digitally, and that roundup article is by Total Film, which is a "total"ly reliable film source. <small style="font color:black">ภץאคгöร 21:36, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 March 2021
The name "Snyder Cut" is unofficial, so remove it 2600:1700:1595:8210:9C90:E205:FB6D:5301 (talk) 22:44, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. It is not uncommon to use unofficial names if they are in common use.  RudolfRed (talk) 02:03, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Starring parameter
Since the starring parameter here is based on the opening credits, should all the names from the credits - Ciarán Hinds, Ryan Zheng, Amber Heard, Joe Morton, Lisa Loven Kongsli, and David Thewlis - be included? Or should they be excluded because they didn't receive an individual credit? Bluerules (talk) 21:43, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Listing the Chapters
Is there some reason the chapters aren't being listed? They are now source-able from various websites. The plot could even then be sub-divided according to these chapters. If someone wants a headstart:

Prologue Part 1: Don’t Count on it, Batman Part 2: The Age of Heroes Part 3: Beloved Mother, Beloved Son Part 4: Change Machine Part 5: All The King’s Horses Part 6: Something Darker Epilogue: A Father Twice Over

Source: https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/justice-league-snyder-cut-hbo-max-chapter-guide

I'd do it myself, but I forswore this level of editing over a decade ago when too many power tripping mods would just delete what was hours of work for arbitrary or contradictory reasons. I don't even know what my old SN and password are anymore. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.113.104.20 (talk) 05:57, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Diane Lane in Cast
Diane Lane portrays both Martha Kent and, for one pivitol scene, an entirely different character. Should we be mentioning this second character under Diane's name in the Cast section? -- JascaDucato (talk &#124; contributions) 10:20, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
 * No. The same way that we don't list Samuel L. Jackson as Talos in Spider-Man: Far From Home, or how we don't list Brendan Gleeson as Barty Crouch Jr in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. —El Millo (talk) 18:14, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

Surnames in the plot section
Why are the characters being referred to by their surnames instead of their given names? The characters are predominantly referred to by their given names in the film. Furthermore, it looks awkward to be calling Silas Stone and Henry Allen by their first names, but their children by their last names. Bluerules (talk) 01:52, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
 * There's precedence for this at the MCU articles, and Silas and Henry are referred to by their first names to avoid confusion with their kids. <small style="color:red">JOE BRO  64  02:01, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
 * The precedence has been the opposite for DCEU articles, including Man of Steel, Dawn of Justice, and the theatrical Justice League - the characters are almost all referred to by their given names. Furthermore, using the given names would avoid such confusion. When the film prefers their given names, I believe using their given names is more in-line with the film. Bluerules (talk) 02:45, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Well if there's already a precedent in DCEU articles then that should be followed. —El Millo (talk) 02:59, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Out of the ten DCEU articles, six use first names (i.e. Man of Steel, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Shazam!, Birds of Prey, and Wonder Woman 1984), three use surnames (i.e. Batman v. Superman, Justice League, and Zack Snyder's Justice League) and one uses monikers (Suicide Squad). -- JascaDucato (talk &#124; contributions) 09:12, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Batman v. Superman and Justice League also use first names for the heroes ("Bruce tells Diana that he regrets having failed Superman in life"; "As the team establishes, Diana steps back into the public spotlight as a heroine; Barry acquires a job in Central City's police department, impressing his father; Victor continues to explore and enhance his abilities with his father in S.T.A.R. Labs; Arthur embraces his Atlantean heritage and continues protecting people on the seas; Superman resumes his life as reporter Clark Kent and as protector of Earth; and Bruce gets the Kents' house back from the bank"). This is the only DCEU article that uses the surnames of the heroes instead.
 * As the precedent for DCEU articles has been to use the first names, I would like to change this article accordingly if there are no objections. Bluerules (talk) 18:15, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

There's already implicit consensus for using first names in these articles. If someone wishes to change them to surnames, they should achieve explicit consensus, perhaps through an RfC. —El Millo (talk) 18:24, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
 * In that case, I have changed the article to reflect this consensus. Bluerules (talk) 18:59, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

Reception
There was an edit war going on before but there does need to be some information on the film's reception in the opening of the article. It looks strange as it is as there is no information about the actual reception to the film other than its comparative status to 2017. We should form a consensus on what the heading reception should be, for now at least. Per RT: "Zack Snyder's Justice League lives up to its title with a sprawling cut that expands to fit the director's vision -- and should satisfy the fans who willed it into existence. CRITICS SAY THE "SNYDER CUT" IS A SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENT OVER ITS THEATRICAL PREDECESSOR, WITH SMARTER STORYTELLING, MORE COMPELLING CHARACTERS, AND A BETTER GRASP OF WHAT IT'S TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH."

I have also added information on how well the film is doing with Audiences, since it's had an extremely positive response from Audiences on the exact same review aggregation sites, with Rotten Tomatoes users in particular scoring it 95%. Colliric (talk) 14:05, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

"Positive" reviews
Some of the editors don't know (or pretend not to know?) what Rotten Tomatoes' "Tomatometer" rating is, how it works and what it actually means. They seem to be troubled by "remarkably positive" from Variety's article, too (which I added to the article with remarkably positive at first). This is a discussion about whether we should ignore sources that clearly show mixed critical feedback and just rely on the Rotten Tomatoes score / Variety's headline phrase. <small style="font color:black">ภץאคгöร 19:39, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
 * My issue is that we have different sources that say different things, so to choose one is WP:SYNTH. I think the best solution is to avoid labeling the reviews, which already has plenty of precedence, like at Thor: The Dark World and Aquaman. <small style="color:red">JOE BRO  64  19:48, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
 * We don't have different sources saying different things. That is the problem. Those who generalized the critical reception reported that the film received a mixed reaction. Rotten Tomatoes' 71% rating equals to "fresh" only. You have not yet shown these "different sources". <small style="font color:black">ภץאคгöร 20:57, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Years for third movies
Perhaps I missed a memo somewhere, but is there a reason why we're including release years for third movies? (e.g. this recent edit.) I was under the impression that dates were only need to disambiguate against other topics, in this case films, with the same name. There's only been one Batman vs Superman, so does it really need the release date alongside it? All it's doing is cluttering the paragraph and breaking the flow of the sentences, IMO. -- JascaDucato (talk &#124; contributions) 12:29, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Snyder's original intent
Saying the film is exactly "as director Zack Snyder intended it before he left the production" is highly dubious. What's the evidence Snyder *always* intended for a four-hour cut, and that the amount of new footage filmed wasn't influenced by the development as a miniseries? He certainly never intended to let the actors age three years before doing additional filming. He did discard Whedon's footage, and hinted he had various plans for his own vision of the film, but there's no evidence for what exactly that was. To be precise, this isn't the film that would have been released if he'd never left. It's a version of the film that represents an artist at a different point in his life, with the benefit of seeing how the released version was reviewed, plus who knows how many other factors. We should be more neutral, avoiding WP:SYNTH and WP:OR. UpdateNerd (talk) 09:25, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
 * No it's not dubious. It's neutral, and pretty much every source backs it up. Only four minutes of new footage was filmed for an epilogue at the end that wasn't conceived until after the project was greenlit. Otherwise, it's entirely made up of the footage that was filmed in 2016 before Snyder left. The Vanity Fair article sourced in the article makes it clear that this is the four-hour film Snyder had made and took with him on a hard drive when he left. <small style="color:red">JOE BRO  64  12:33, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
 * The THR article announcing the endeavor also states that the four-hour cut is how Snyder intended it. This is a non-issue. <small style="color:red">JOE BRO  64  12:36, 14 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Ok, that clarifies the issue. UpdateNerd (talk) 03:07, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

Reception summary in lead
I had previously edited the reception in the lead to include the attribution to The Hollywood Reporter (previously it included a quote but no attribution ), but based on a previous discussion on another article with and a few other editors about including the Rotten Tomatoes attribution in the lead, what are the thoughts about trying to rephrase the consensus from the Hollywood Reporter source to avoid using quotes and naming the attribution in the lead? I'm not sure how to reword "ability to offer more depth to characters", although maybe we could change that to just something about additional "depth" or maybe something about Snyder's "original vision", as that seems to be the most frequent way that the reviews quoted in the main body discuss the additional depth and story. – wallyfromdilbert (talk) 18:18, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't know what you necessarily mean by this, but I do think that the first two paragraphs of Reception should be switched, as RT and MC reviews always come first. I understand however, the first paragraph serves to summarize the reception of the film. Within this matter, I hope to gain approval of other Wikipedia's. However, I'm not sure about your issue, I would appreciate it if you elaborated on it. Dcdiehardfan (talk) 05:39, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
 * , I was referring to the lead paragraph, where it quotes The Hollywood Reporter to summarize the critical reception, and a recent discussion about the lead in the article for the 2018 film Venom (discussion link here), where other editors did not like having an attributed quote to Rotten Tomatoes in the lead. I don't have any opinion about where to put the RT/MC in the reception section, although I would suggest being WP:BOLD. – wallyfromdilbert (talk) 19:54, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
 * could maybe be rephrased as praise for character development. —El Millo (talk) 05:43, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I think that's a great way to rephrase it. -Dcdiehardfan (talk) 22:52, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks, and . I used the suggested wording to rephrase the reception summary in the lead and remove the attributed quote . – wallyfromdilbert (talk) 19:54, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, that is a more improved and concise version. Good job! -Dcdiehardfan (talk) 04:59, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

RE: The Snyderverse
Should we make a separate section in the article about the Snyderverse, due to the online popularity it has gained recently. This could help to inform people about the Snyderverse. I think we should add a section describing it and giving a general idea of it. Dcdiehardfan (talk) 04:45, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

You can make a draft if you want Kirbopher2004 (talk) 06:52, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Hatnote
, a hatnote linking to Zack Snyder's Justice League (soundtrack) is needed per WP:HNR #4, as it is the same title but with parenthetical disambiguation – see WP:SIMILAR. Other stuff may exist, but this link should be atop the page to direct users looking for the soundtrack article. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 17:52, 17 July 2021 (UTC)


 * I've never seen any other film article do this, but if you insist, alright. InfiniteNexus (talk) 18:47, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Latin America Release
Please fix the Latin America info, it was released on March 18 for a limited premium video on demand release until April 7. After that it will go to HBO MAX. Source:
 * https://twitter.com/WarnerEnCasa/status/1367145297340731398
 * https://us11.campaign-archive.com/?e=0683da5ec5&u=01b51540ab91c7961ceb39d7e&id=09e7c417cb
 * https://www.warnerbroslatino.com/es-co/peliculas/la-liga-de-la-justicia-de-zack-snyder

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 179.14.73.108 (talk)

Thank you, changes will be implemented Dcdiehardfan (talk) 04:02, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Nature of Autumn Snyder's death
I have again removed details about the exact nature of Autumn Snyder's cause of death. My reasons for this are twofold; firstly, there is intermittent back-and-forth'ing over how to word it (only the most recent example linked), and secondly, such a level of detail is not necessary for this article. All that needs be mentioned is that she passed away, and that this was the reason for her father step down from directing the movie. No further detail is necessary. -- JascaDucato (talk &#124; contributions) 13:14, 4 October 2021 (UTC)