Talk:Zaki al-Arsuzi/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Jarry1250 (talk · contribs) 11:10, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

This article is well on its way to becoming a Good Article. Indeed, I could not find anything on which to fail this article, and so it will pass. However, before I do pass it, I would like to see if we couldn't get the article to a strong-GA/potential-FA quality:
 * (see comment below) The images are both acceptable, although it would be very useful to have more information about them and their authors. Specifically, it is assumed that both originated in Syria, but it would be good to have at least some evidence of that.
 * The webside were the images were uploaded from those not say anything more then what is already mentioned.... The author is not mentioned, and where the picture was taken is not mentioned. --TIAYN (talk) 17:14, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Do the photographs appear anywhere else? - Jarry1250 [Deliberation needed] 22:35, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I couldn't find anything.... --TIAYN (talk) 11:43, 7 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Done It would be good to know exactly how many of "Influenced by" are specifically named (presumably in [3]).
 * Fixed (by someone else) Although not wrong, the article's use of long citations with different page numbers is very rare, and many would think it overly dense.
 * I'm not the author of this article, but has been following it for a while. I took the liberty of fixing the citations and the biblio section, to be more readable and added isbn/doi where possible, and removed the long citations. Ofcourse if the author prefers otherwise he can revert. I find this much more readable with shorter cites. Yazan (talk) 00:41, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
 * "secondary school" (lead and prose) - could we give some approximate ages here?
 * I can't find anything on that... --TIAYN (talk) 17:14, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
 * A pity, but yeah... - Jarry1250 [Deliberation needed] 22:35, 6 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Fixed It is unclear at the moment whether al-Arsuzi was refused membership of the merged party, or whether he simply never requested it.
 * Better? Note sure "Thus, if humans were rational creatures, every individual would organise his way of life to confirm their own status. Individuals will participate to work, collaborating with his compatriots, to take over the affairs of state from the colonists, who acted as barriers for such changes" makes sense.
 * (added some other refs. too) I am concerned by the reliance of paragraph one of #Legacy of Suleiman's work. In particular, his views on al-Arsuzi and al-Husri need to be compared or added to those of on or more other writers; or, at the very least, the reliance should be made clearer.
 * The problem with al-Arsuzi, which many historians have noted, is that very little has been written about him; sadly, thats nearly the only thing people have written about al-Arsuzi, he was a great thinker, but is not remembered. I can look, but I doubt I can find any more sources. --TIAYN (talk) 21:51, 6 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Looks good I have changed the prose in a number of places, so do check I haven't changed anything for the worse :)
 * Looks good. --TIAYN (talk) 17:14, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Regards, - Jarry1250 [Deliberation needed] 11:10, 5 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Only one question outstanding, will re-read and look to pass in a couple of days' time. - Jarry1250 [Deliberation needed] 22:35, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, I've made a couple more edits. Are they okay with you? - Jarry1250 [Deliberation needed] 16:48, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
 * They look good. --TIAYN (talk) 22:09, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, and one final thing: I don't think my earlier point about membership of the merged party never being taken up/denied was resolved in both places (lead and prose) -- lead still says "denied", prose is still ambiguous. Sorry to be annoying :) - Jarry1250 [Deliberation needed] 22:42, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Done --TIAYN (talk) 15:23, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm still unclear, actually, on whether he wanted membership. Do the sources suggest he wanted to be part of the new party leadership but was declined on grounds of his mental health, or that, because of his mental health, he was unable or unwilling to become a member? (This is a side issue, I'll get round to officially passing the article at some point.) - Jarry1250 [Deliberation needed] 16:32, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Done (i think) --TIAYN (talk) 07:55, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, so I went to check the source listed, but it says only that al-Arsuzi was "not given a position in the new party". Do you have a source for saying he was not *in* the party? (Also, do you have a source for "because of his declining mental capabilities" or whatever the exact text used in the article is?) - Jarry1250 [Deliberation needed] 12:18, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Done - I remember I read it somewhere, but I've been unable to find the ref (I'll find it eventually!) --TIAYN (talk) 20:40, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Failed
It is with great regret that I am forced to fail this article. This is being done under criterion 2, sub-criteria (b) and (c). Unfortunately the divergence between what the sources cited say and what the article text said was simply too great in the passage I looked at. Whilst good articles can include uncited material, I feel it would be wrong to pass an article that included uncited material that appeared cited in this regard. Therefore I feel I must fail this article. I appreciate that TIAYN is an established editor - I am not suggesting that the errors were intentional - but that it was a deviance that I couldn't let by.

If there was now an active process of trimming back the prose to keep to the facts outlined by the sources (not their exacting wording, mind), I think the article would pass GA easily. I invited the nominator or others to perform such a process in his or her own time, and I would be more than happy to rereview the article and pass it on those grounds. In the meantime, I can be contacted on my user talk page. Many thanks, - Jarry1250 [Deliberation needed] 18:18, 26 January 2012 (UTC)