Talk:Zant

Untitled
Ok; I finished the game and I dont remember when in the game it says the other twili people were transformed into minor forms too, Just as I getted it, Midna was the only one transformed, the other twili were transformed to the monsters form, but get back it's original form with the help of the Master Sword sols' light.

That makes absolutely no sense. --84.69.166.250 10:49, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Link reverts the Twili back from their semi-monstrous forms around the Twilight Palace, and the forms they revert to don't quite seem to be normal. They just moan... and they're rather short, so it's possible they're still transformed into 'imp' forms. However, since the only two normal Twili we see are Zant-unmasked and Midna's true form, it's impossible to speculate as to what a "normal" Twili looks like... especially considering they were born of dark-hearted hylian wizards in the first place.

Zant...
can someone put a picture of zant unmasked?

Can somebody post a better picture of Zant unmasked? The current one's rather fuzzy.

Category
I'm not sure but maby Zant can be put in the category of fictional mass murderers. For one, he transformed all the twili into mindless beings, who could not be recovered and were destroyed by Link in self defense. He was responsible for their deaths, but I don't think they could've been recovered anyway. He is also responsible for other deaths such as many Hyrule guards, the ruler of Zora's domain, the shopkeeper women in Kakoriko village, and a few others.-Darknessofheart

Helmet
Zant's helmet does NOT look like Onox's. They're both pointy and thats it. Quit adding it to the trivia section. Takuthehedgehog 02:11, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

''Well seeing as Midna is reminicent of Veran, it would make sense that Zant is moddled after Onox. Heck, I thought Zant was moddled after Onox before seeing Midna's true form, and after that, it just clinched it for me, that the two were homages to teh Oracle games.''

Yes, Zant's helmet DOES look like Onox's, the only way they don't seem similar is that Onox is depcited as a more cartoon character while Zant appears on a 3D Counsel and appears more realistic. Unknown Dragon 02:20, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * No, they're both conical. Resemblance stops there.  Onox/Gorgon's helmet is a bright gold with three eye-holes and a mouth opening.  Zant's completely covers his face, has two eyes, and a grotesque expression.—ウルタプ 03:06, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I've removed the trivia section entirely. It was solely original research and trivia sections should be avoided.— Ryūlóng ( 竜 龍 ) 03:41, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Similarities to other characters
I've picked up a few. Let me hear what you think


 * His robes look strikingly similar to the robes Ganondorf wears in Wind Waker. It has the same dark blue coloration, long hand-obscuring sleeves, and bright markings on both sleeves (though, they are light blue rather than orange.)
 * His general mannerisms in combat and his voice are remiscent of Majora. He has a high pitched voice, an affinity for contorting himself in odd possitions needlessly, eccentric mid-battle behavior, and a shrill screech when hit.
 * I don't buy this, but some people love pointing out his helmet's likeness to Onox's. I guess they're both pointy, have prominant eyeholes, and third needless hole in the forhead, and the only part of his face not covered while wearing it (sometimes) is his mouth. Also, it may be intentional homage to the Seasons character just as Midna's true form may be homage to Veran, as the person above me so graciously pointed out.

I'm not sure what your opinions are, but these sound like ripe fruits for the trivia section to me. Lord Zymeth 04:51, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I kinda think that Zant looks like the Garo Masters from Majora's Mask.

I'm not the only one am I? You have no proof it was me. 12:39, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

POV description
I noticed that there is some adjectives and such in the article that read like in-game descriptions and what have you. Example:

....Transforming Midna into a small imp-like figure, Zant forcefully robbed her of her rightful place as the Twilight Princess. He then used his powers to transform the remaining Twili into twisted mockeries of what they once were: dark shadow creatures that blindly followed the orders of their new lord, Zant....

Thought I'd post before removing anything. -Brad 69.130.236.88 01:29, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I removed perceived POV descriptions, and improved on some of the text (I think). I think there is more that could be trimmed, but I don't know how I could rephrase it. If anyone thinks that it should be reverted/improved, I invite the effort. -Brad 69.130.236.88 00:29, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Some Things To Mention
I want to know... should these things be mentioned in the article? (In a list for convience)


 * Whenever Zant appears in the game a scream can be heard.
 * Zant's movements in battle are very eratic.
 * Zant believes the power of the fused shadows could not come close to matching him, ironiclly only a fraction of their power killed him.
 * Nintendo's offical stratedy guide for the game refers to him as "misunderstood".
 * Zant's body is extremly flexible.

There... thats my facts, I don't think they violate NPOV or NOR. I think this information would fit well in a trivia section. BassxForte 04:07, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * WP:TRIV. '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 19:32, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

....so? Sometimes trivia sections improve articles! BassxForte 20:09, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * No. It's a crutch by editors too lazy to actually write prose. '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 21:33, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

It's nigh impossible for you to write information like this in an article without it looking awkward, it would need to be in a trivia section, I don't understand why some think trivia sections shouldn't be included, considering so many articles use them. BassxForte 00:18, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The presence of trivia in other articles is not justification for more trivia. We're here to write comprehensive articles with good prose, not create a list of "lol this is interesting!!!!!!" '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 09:41, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Sometimes a trivia section is neccessary, like here. BassxForte 18:18, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Saying that something is doesn't mean it is. '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 21:52, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh yes... i forgot the No.1 rule of wikipedia, "if you don't have proof to back up your claim your a lier". BassxForte 21:56, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Furthermore WP:TRIV clearly states it's simple a guideline, not an offical rule, therte is nothing wrong with disregarding it. BassxForte 20:28, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Don't forget to put that Zelda surrenders to Zant...72.134.69.228 05:39, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

That would belong in Zelda's article. BassxForte 00:53, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Snap
How do you know Zant really snapped his neck? Zant has proven his body to be extremly flexible, I don't think it was meant as suicide or something, most likly more of a taunt. BassxForte 21:11, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I believe the metaphor I'm thinking of is "grasping at straws". '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 09:42, 14 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Definitely didn't look like a taunt to me. I've no idea why it was shown, but between the movement and the sound, it's pretty clear they intended it to look like his neck was breaking. Iwanttobeasleep 01:46, 20 February 2007 (UTC)


 * That's odd. Neither my friends nor myself thought for a moment that Zant hurt himself. We thought it was pretty clear that he killed Ganondorf by telekinetically snapping Ganondorf's neck. The crack sound itself was generated by Zant's motion, not by the deadly result, but it was more of a voodoo/effigy action than something harmful to Zant. I didn't think this much was in doubt.
 * Further interpretation: The power that was Ganon, after promising Link that he was not defeated, left the shell body of Ganondorf - this is the point at which the triforce fades. The fact that Zant still existed indicates Ganon's continued survival. Zant then cleaned up by killing the shell. Workaphobia 20:03, 10 March 2007 (UTC)


 * When I was watching that cutscene and I saw Link impale Ganondorf, I thought, "He's dead," although he was still standing there for a long time afterwards, staring in disbelief or something. I was wondering why he wasn't dead yet; what was taking so long?  Then it showed Zant cracking his neck, and the last of Ganon's power faded.  I found Zant's motion kind of like how you might draw your finger across your neck to signal, "You're dead."  Ganon used Zant's strong desires as a way to gain a connection with the living world and be reborn.  Ganon let Zant use his power, but he was really just using Zant as a puppet to take over Hyrule.  I think that if Zant no longer had his will, maybe that made Ganon lose his grip on reality and contributed to his demise. That Zant actually got a turn to rule over Ganon would be ironic.  Zant was sure of his invincibility by believing Ganon would be there to back him up and revive him should he be killed, and Ganon had confidence in his return to Hyrule because of his hitching a ride on Zant's evil desires.  In reality Ganon didn't really care about Zant, so when he let Zant die, Zant probably felt betrayed and returned the favor.
 * Or then again, maybe it just emphasized his death because Ganon and Zant were in a sense one entity. ~_^
 * That's the obvious one, but there's my take on it for deeper meaning.
 * So far as the ending goes, I was more caught up on Midna's breaking of the mirror. ;_; -Cartoonmaster 01:10, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

As Zant said, he cannot die so long as Ganondorf lives, so will he, so it is possible that with the death of Ganondorf (Can he even die though really?) that Zant also dies, this could just possible be how he dies or something. P.S this particular section to me seems to be turning more into a discussion, so maybe we should end it Chess Dragon 00:12, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Were capable of tilting our head to the degree Zant did without breaking our necks, granted we are humans, and Zant is a Twili, so his anatomy may be diffrent from ours. BassxForte 04:24, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Since we seem to be foruming here, what say we just end this discussion? I no longer care about it anyway. If someone wants to continue discussing this take it to a forum, or a zelda wiki. (I notice wikis beside wikipedia do allow the talk pages to be used like forums) BassxForte 03:15, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I think it's best to take out the whole interpretation side there. We don't know that his neck snaps.--Impossible 05:18, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Player's Guide
Nintendo's Offical Player's Guide mentions a few things about Zant that weren't talked about in-game, the text is "One of the rewards for trudging all the way to the top of the Palace of Twilight is to discover Zant's back story. What drove him to darkness? A monologue from the crazed leader will reveal all. Years of oppression and promises unfulfilled turned Zant into a maniac and misunderstood creature. He sought a way to lift himself to a higher place. Zant's depression made him vulnerable to an evil force that wanted to mix darkness with light and forever blanket the kingdom in shadows. That's when he became Hyrule's number-one threat." Should this be mentioned in this article? BassxForte 04:30, 28 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't see why not. Perhaps this description will help the reader fully understand Zant's origin and personality. Although the smart thing to do was to re-word it so that it would not be plagerized. Unknown Dragon 19:46, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I've added the information from the player's guide into the article, reworded to prevent copyright issues, and described what Zant did and experianced in the game with more detail. BassxForte 21:51, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Does Zant really need his own article?
Zant only appears in Twilight Princess, I think he should just be merged with the list of characters in twilight princess. You don't see Majora's Mask, aka Majora, with his own article, because he only appears in one game. Takuthehedgehog 02:03, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Majora used to have his own article. T'was merged into the characters in Majora's Mask article though. Gurko 17:19, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * And look at how long his article was! Zant's backstory is barley elaborated on, he would just as easily fit on the TP character page. Takuthehedgehog 23:34, 25 April 2007 (UTC)