Talk:Zanzibar Revolution

Page move proposal
The article talks about a massacre and yet the title says it is a revolution. I'm requesting a new title [Zanzibar massacre]. -- FayssalF  - Wiki me up®  14:56, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I second that [Zanzibar massacre]; or even ethnic cleansing. Perhaps a pogrom? Has anyone any information on any of the murderers being brought to justice? I've seen the film and it is brutal.

The article says about the successful evacuation of British Nationals (whites) only but does not mention any thing about Indians and others who were British Nationals and holding British Passports who were left to fend themselves.This was a real case of apartheid and colour discrimination.Even today these Indians and others who were British Nationals by registration under British Nationality Act 1948 and were holding valid British Passports are left high and dry by the British Government that these British Citizens have forfeited their British Nationality under Zanzibar independence Act 1963 without giving these colour British Citizen the option whether they wanted to opt for Zanzibar Citizenship or retain their british Nationalty.Even after 45 years many of these people are just living a miserable life.It is time the British government gave a though to this and correct the mistake and reinstate the British Nationaliy of these people.Even after 45 years it is not too late. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.198.160.107 (talk) 11:02, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Zanzibar Revolution
Zanzibar64 10:17, 15 October 2007 (UTC) The Revolution occured during the night of January 12th 1964. It was a violent one. over the following weeks and months, many thousand Zanzibari Arabs and others were killed. There are various reference books that can be supplied to support this.

Copyedit notes
A few questions, comments etc for the subject expert(s)... EyeSerene talk 10:10, 25 February 2009 (UTC)


 * The article feels slightly unbalanced at the moment. We have a short(ish) section on the actual revolution itself, while the longest sections are on the foreign reaction and British military response. Can we get more information for the former? Looking at other articles, I see that Okello's article claims he organised the coup without Karume et al's knowledge, and it was he who set up the Council - this seems to be an important snippet that, if supported, should be included. There is some other stuff in related articles that may also be useful (as in Babu's, which claims he was later involved in Karume's assassination - could be mentioned in 'Legacy'?).
 * I had meant to develop Okello's article further but haven't got round to it (not enough time on my hands for another big article yet). The mention of Karume and Babu not being informed about the coup seems to have remained from an early form of the article.  I have not seen any references in the sources I have access to about this fact and I think it may have come from Okello's autobiography (which is not a reliable source).  I will take a look and see if I can find an RS that states this.  It is a similar case with the claim about Babu, his article is sourced to two dubious websites.  Non of the newspaper archives that I can access have details about his involvement, just that four gunmen shot him.  I will continue looking though.  It is a shame that there I could find very few RS about the actual revolution as it is a very important time in East Africa's history but the only part covered in detail is the immediate aftermath and the British plans.  Thanks for bringing this up - Dumelow (talk) 14:53, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Heh, I'm not surprised at the difficulties you've had with sourcing, given the nature of the subject ;) I think it's right to go with what we can source over concerns about completeness. EyeSerene talk 12:32, 26 February 2009 (UTC)


 * The organisation of the uprising could do with more detail - currently we seem to have a relatively stable country with a popular Sultan, then a few hundred revolutionaries spontaneously appear and overthrow the government. Presumably there must have been some training and organisation going on? What made the British believe civil disorder was so likely?
 * Again I have drawn a blank in this area. There doesn't seem to be much recorded about the planning of the revolution. Speller mentions a few things which I will add shortly.  He also says that the British civil disorder predictions were accompanied by intelligence of increased Communist activity in the area.  I will add that as well.  Thanks - Dumelow (talk) 16:03, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I have tried to clear up the bit on leadership but couldn't get the text to read right (It is fragmented into two sentences at the moment) and you may want to take a look over it. Cheers - Dumelow (talk) 16:15, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I think that helps. Everyone does seem to agree that Okello appeared almost from nowhere, so there obviously wasn't any particular attention paid to him before the revolution - reflected in the apparent lack of information. If the Brits were concentrating on possible communist subversion I suppose they wouldn't have been looking at him much anyway. EyeSerene talk 12:32, 26 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Karume's article claims he wasn't taken out of Zanzibar until the day after the revolution.
 * Interesting. I have not seen that claim made by an RS before (discounting the official history).  I think that might be the result of some vandalism somewhere along the line.  An older version of the article says "Karume was not in Zanzibar on 12 January 1964".  I will hop over to the article and correct it (with a ref).  It is a shame that the supporting biography articles are in such poor states - Dumelow (talk) 17:59, 26 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I think it might help to attribute some of the opinion in the article ("According to one source..."; "A moderate socialist, Karume may have agreed to the merger..."). How would we describe the sources for these? Historians? Writers? Commentators?
 * I have tried to introduce this in the two places you mentioned (I used historians) and changed the bit about the merger to, hopefully, clarify the sources - Dumelow (talk) 17:28, 27 February 2009 (UTC)


 * "Many Arabs fled to Oman..." Elsewhere I've seen "expelled" used - were there expulsions too?
 * I can't recall reading about forced expulsions but it is a possibility. Do you have any more information on this?  Cheers - Dumelow (talk) 17:28, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't - I can't remember where I read it, though it was probably in one of the other related articles. EyeSerene talk 10:23, 4 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Is there any more information for the Legacy section regarding the atrocities that were committed during the revolution? Prosecutions, reconciliation, that sort of thing... EyeSerene talk 10:23, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

An eyewitness account of revolution is that Abdul Rehman Babu,a communist and a member of ZNP fall out from ZNP and escaped to main land Tanganyika.He organised the revolution.Most of the revolutioneries were outsiders from main land and not Zanzibaris except AR Babu who was a Gazija,that is the cross breed of an Arab and African.The so called revolutionaries were having support of Nyerere and most of these revolutioneries were trained near Velezo in the jungle.Some of the revolutioneris were policemen in Zanzibar Police.Tanganyika was involved in the Mapinduzi. There were about two hundred revolutionaries in the beginning.The Police Officer (name forgotten)in charge of Zanzibar Mobile Force Camp At Mtoni that fateful day had all the weapond of these armed police deposited in the armoury as part of conspiracy.The first ever casualty of the so called revolution was a sentry in the sentry box at the gate of Mtoni Zanzibar Mobile Force camp.There after the armed man entered the camp killing other four guards and broke opened the doors of armoury and looted the weapons.The unarmed police force was taken asleep at Mton and many lost their lives and some joined the revolutioneris. There after the killing and plundering took place and continued for several days.The so called Field Marshall John Okello was a outsider and a mason.All the time Abdul Rehman Babu was in Tanganyika.

The last police station to fall was Mulandege police station.The Sultan of Zanzibar escaped in his small ship and was granted assylum in Britain.The rest of the Government ministers were arrested and imprisoned.Some died in prison and others were released after many years in prison.

Arabs and asians were mercilessly murdered and their women raped and property either plundered or destroyed.Zanzibar was a ghost town.Okello use to announce all sort of whimsical orders from Sauti ya Unguja.

British naval force evacuted its white British nationals living the Asian British Citizens to their fate and at the mercy of Okello and his men who raped young girls and committed all kind of atrocities.Many people fled the country at the first opportunity.Some to main land and others to either middle east or India.

All this time Karume was in hiding but not in Zanzibar.Both Karume and Babu stayed out side the Island in Dar Es Sallam for fear of arrest in case the revolution failed.

Those people who left Zanzibar after revolution are not allowed to return re enter Zanzibar till date even though they were born in Zanzibar and had their property there.

The Brirish have disown the British Citizens of Asian origin and are not allowed to enter or stay in Britain.

It was belief at that time that the Brirish knew about the comming revolution but did not inform the Zanzibar Goverment to settle the score.It was a case of wounded pride and hurt ego. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.198.162.247 (talk) 06:32, 11 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the information - are you able to provide sources for this (ie books, reputable websites or newspapers)? Because Wikipedia can only report what others have already published, unfortunately we can't include any information that can't be verified by reference to what Wikipedia calls reliable sources (click on the link for more information). EyeSerene talk 08:17, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Genocide
Targeting of Arabs for mass killings, isn't that genocide? --41.151.141.63 (talk) 23:05, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Seriously guys, is this necessary...
Operation Parthenon—— name change ——>Operation Boris—— name change ——>Operation Finery—— name change ——>Operation Shed—— name change ——>Plan Giralda——> CANCELED 

We don't need 5 large yet almost identical articles of operations that all failed to be implemented, do we? 77.165.250.227 (talk) 10:19, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Zanzibar Revolution. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added tag to http://www.thecitizen.co.tz/newe.php?id=11853
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081201170736/http://www.thecommonwealth.org/YearbookInternal/140064/society/ to http://www.thecommonwealth.org/YearbookInternal/140064/society/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 15:58, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Zanzibar Revolution. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://archive.is/20070802153207/http://kurayangu.com/ipp/guardian/2006/01/23/58381.html to http://kurayangu.com/ipp/guardian/2006/01/23/58381.html
 * Added tag to http://www.mzalendo.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Daly_thesis-zanzibar.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 14:22, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

The number of dead civilians
The intro puts it at 20k, whereas the infobox at 2-4k.--Adûnâi (talk) 19:19, 9 May 2018 (UTC)