Talk:Zao (American band)

Russ being in the band
The site says he is still in it, and if he is injured, I doubt this means he is permanently out, so for now, I added him back to members.24.61.84.44 03:17, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Changed the meaning of Greek word Zao
the greek word ζάω means "I live" in biblical Greek, it does not mean "alive" which would be ζωντανός in contemporary greek. if they meant it to mean "alive" then they mistranslated the word... i edited the page to reflect the actual meaning of the word.


 * ...but they did have a song called "Alive is Dead" hinting that they were going to be breaking up.Whitey138 (talk) 01:58, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

I am sure there is alot more meanings you could get out of "alive is dead" it would moste likely relate to something that happened in there lives, not the future of the band —Preceding unsigned comment added by ICheets (talk • contribs) 02:17, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Where are they from?
I had long heard that they were from Parkersburg, West Virginia. Today, Slipper changed the location to Greensburgh, Pennsylvania. Is there any source for this? --Idont Havaname (Talk) 00:08, 9 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I checked their Myspace page, which says that the band currently live in or near Pennsylvania. But the band's earlier bios said they were from Parkersburg.  I'll reword the introduction accordingly. --Idont Havaname (Talk) 19:51, 10 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I am from Parkersburg and saw their first show. They were from the Parkersburg, WV/Marietta, OH area, but by the time "Liberate" came out, I think Jesse Smith was the only member left from the area. Dlmccaslin 05:48, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Side projects
Though impressive, the side projects list in this article is not necessary knowledge about the band. Suggestions? &mdash;Joshfist 03:28, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Moved the section to its own page: Zao (band)/List of Zao related side projects. &mdash;Joshfist 21:23, 16 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Question about Gods/GODS: Were/Are Jesse Smith and Rob Horner both involved in this? I thought Jesse was the only Zao member who was part of that project. --Idont Havaname (Talk) 03:40, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

History
There are currently many loose sentences in the section that should be included in an article rewrite. The section needs to be cleaned up and wikified rather than reshuffled throughout the article. &mdash;Joshfist 14:00, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

About Russ Cogdell's return.
Several editors wish to emphasize that Russ Cogdell is on hiatus or returning; however, the FAQ list on Zao's MySpace has this to say about the subject: Q: What happened to Russ? A: He went on a medical leave due to his knee being injured in August 2005. In the interim, he got married and is working at home and spending time with his wife. Rock 'n Roll doesn't wait and Zao soldiered on. At this stage, we don't expect his return or want a replacement. If/when he decides to return, we have his area of the stage (in addition to a bunch of cushy gym mats) waiting for him. Noting that he may or may not come back in the article is not necessary, as the same could theoretically be stated for any previous member of the band. &mdash;Joshfist 03:41, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Russ is back in the band now. Scott also said in the most recent interview on their MySpace blog that the core of the band over about the last decade has been him, Russ, and Dan, and that Zao won't be adding any more permanent members. --Idont Havaname (Talk) 19:17, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

The Pic
I'd do it myself, but I can't seem to find a version with a correct band pic, instead of Gene Snitsky. So, could someone fix it, please?

Listing music videos
If they have more than one music video (I assume they do), then the music videos should get their own section in the discography rather than putting them in Other releases. They don't need any additional notes, except if they are especially noteworthy - e.g. did well on a TV network. --Idont Havaname (Talk) 01:55, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

"Detrimental and demonic" citation
I agree that this needs better sourcing, and I can't provide exactly that. But I do recall an issue of FlamexResistant (a Montreal-based 'zine) where they talked about their home churches in West Virginia excluding them because of their tattoos, so if you can locate that perhaps that's a suboptimal substitute. - Cheers, PhilipR 03:01, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Zao (punk band)?!
Zao's style has never been punk. I would suggest using Zao (metal band) if you want to identify them by genre. Although, a better way to name the page without igniting a genre controversy is to call this page Zao (US band), and similarly go back to Zao and re-label Zao (zeuhl) as Zao (French band). The French band doesn't have an article here anyway. --Idont Havaname (Talk) 13:22, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
 * No problem. I got my inspiration for the label "punk" from the Dutch wikipedia. Moreover, the article says the bands falls in the christian metalcore genre, and that article says it's a from of hardcore punk; that was the reason a tagged it with punk; but well, I don't know anything about the genre, so any better article title is fine ;-) --LimoWreck 17:07, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Not a Christian Band Anymore
Well, since it is said that they have stated that they are no longer a Christian band, then why are they still labeled as such in the category? IronCrow 03:26, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah really man. They haven't been Christian band since...well their last Christian album was Where Blood And Fire Bring Rest.


 * No The Funeral Of God had christian intones as well.


 * They haven't labeled themselves as a Christian band since Where Blood and Fire Bring Rest and, from what they've posted in the Q&A sections on their MySpace page, are very tired of that debate. The current version of the article accurately describes how their stance on the "Christian" issue has changed over time.  I'm about to work on the History section. --Idont Havaname (Talk) 19:53, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

They can still be refered as a Christian band because their early work was. Just like people still refer to metallica as thrash metal even though they haven't been for over 15 years.

Zao have undergone so many lineup changes over the years, none of the original members (who were all self-proclaimed Christians) remain. Zao started out as a Christian band, but today they prefer to be known as a group of open-minded, free-thinking individuals. You can listen to a lot of secular music and read Christian themes into it if you want...but that does not make that group Christian. Zao should be classified as secular, regardless of whether or not the members claim to be Christians. --hXc ryan-- 15:25, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

The idea that a band should continue to be classified as a Christian because their early work was is foreign to me. Correct me if I am wrong, but a butterfly is a butterfly, even if it once was a caterpillar. Whether the band played a key influence in creating the Christian metal genre or not is irrelevant in their classification. What is the band currently? That is what they should be classified as. It is entirely appropriate that the article itself refers to their influence on the Christian metalcore genre, but face the facts: Zao has entirely different members and and entirely different style than it did in the mid 90s. --Wick3dd 01:45, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I've been looking into this, and I've noticed they still contain Christian elements, but I still cant really prove it all that much. As for classification: Former Christian musical groups is good enough. IronCrow 21:03, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Was Corey Darst the vocalist in any of Zao's demo songs?
I'm expanding the History section right now. I have Legendary and recall that there were 3 demo tracks at the end of it. Were those done with Corey Darst on vocals or Dan Weyandt? Also, who did the vocals on their This Is Solid State songs? This Is Solid State Vol. 3] had a Zao song called "The Icarus Complex", which was also a demo track on Legendary (the other two demo tracks on Legendary were "One Last Time" and "All Dressed Up (With No Place to Go"). I don't think any of these songs were recorded with Joshua Ashworth. --Idont Havaname (Talk) 20:29, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Dan Weyandt recorded those 3 demo tracks. I own a copy of Legendary --hXc ryan-- 15:28, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

The vocals are by Cory Darst. It says so in the liner notes of the CD. If you have the cd go look. It has a list of the members and the tracks they are on.--

Dan did not sing on the demo tracks. It was Corey. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.215.154.145 (talk) 20:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

More on the Christian/not debate
According to the most recent interview on their MySpace page, all of their current members identify themselves as Christians. Jeff Gretz, who's no longer in the band and was replaced by Josh Walters from the Juliana Theory, was open about not being a Christian, but Scott said that the rest of the members (including Josh) are. However, the band is not.

I just saw this and wanted to make a note of it here for anyone who wants to work it into the article; I don't have time to do that tonight. --Idont Havaname (Talk) 05:52, 24 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I've updated it just now. --Idont Havaname (Talk) 20:31, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Genre
An anon recently changed their first genre from hardcore to death metal. I'm going to revert that. As far as I know, Zao has never been a death metal band. Their early work (Splinter) tended more toward hardcore, and Daniel Weyandt uses the kind of vocals that are used in black metal. --Idont Havaname (Talk) 15:19, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I've always perceived Zao as a grindcore band with black metal-influenced vocals. Dan Weyandt screams into a distorted PA... --hXc ryan--

I personally asked the band about their genre in an email via myspace and the drummer at the time (Jeff Gretz) said they have never considered themselves metalcore. He stated that the band is just plain heavy metal. Their current ablum has some death metal undertones, as have many of their albums. Songs like "It's Hard Not To Shake With A Gun In Your Mouth", or "At Zero (Simeon Simmons)" display death metal tendancies. However, the band as a whole does not. In reality, the best argument in favor of Zao being a death metal band is the fact that Weyandt's vocal style reflects that of Jeffrey Walker from Carcass.

If anyone would like to see what Gretz wrote to me, I will glady post it. --Wick3dd 01:57, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Ok I am tired of people editing the genre. Zao does NOT consider themselves to be hardcore or metalcore! Thank you whoever added "early" next to hardcore. The band considers themselves metal, nothing more. I am adding it and I do not wish to see it removed. If need be, I can give cite direct quotes from the band to myself over this issue. --Wick3dd 06:29, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

I am removing it not because they are just Metalcore (an offshoot of Hardcore) but simply because a band is not the authority on what they are. I could start a Pop group and call it Black Metal, but it doesn't mean it is. Camalus 14:59, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Their current cd lacks elements of hardcore though. I am not going to add it because metal is such an ambiguous term, but their new album really does not fit the bill of metalcore. Most of the songs are fast, short, and without breakdowns. I realize that they have been metalcore for most of their other albums, but this new one is kind of a stumbler. Help resolving this would be appreciated, thank you. --Wick3dd 06:18, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Pioneers?
Although I'm a fan of Zao, I think it is less than accurate to claim that Zao "pioneered" the boundaries of Christian music/metal. As a long time collector of Christian metal, I would point to Resurrection Band, Messiah Prophet, Stryper, Blackhouse, Deliverance, Vengeance Rising, and Mortification as pioneering. Each one brought a significant subgenre into the Christian marketplace.

But Zao, great band that they are, was treading a well beaten path by the time they were selling CDs at Christian bookstores. I have a vinyl record of hardcore Christian band The Lead from the middle 1980s (!). You can argue that Zao is metalcore, or some hybrid, and not really hardcore and I don't disagree. But "pioneers" is simply inaccurate.

--/\/\aetryx --Maetryx 03:45, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Before Zao, I don't think there were any Christian bands with Carcass-like vocals. You have to give them credit for that, at least. --hXc ryan-- 15:29, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for responding. I still think that no form of the word "pioneer" applies to Zao. If a Christian metal band arises tomorrow with vocals similar to Rammstein, are they pioneers? The sentence mixes metaphors in any case. How does one pioneer a boundary? I could more accurately credit Zao with extending the boundaries of Christian metal. And, though convoluted, I supposed one could claim that they "pioneered" the copying of Carcass by a Christian band. Then again, Living Sacrifice beat them to the punch with the album Nonexistent released in 1992. Maetryx 02:38, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I do not think they are pioneers of Christian metal. I think they pioneered a certain style of music, or at least greatly added to it. The whole Christian scene had been around for years before them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wick3dd (talk • contribs) 19:13, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Vocal style
So it looks like there is a bit of disagreement about the vocal style of Shawn Jonas vs. Daniel Weyandt. Comparing Shawn's vocal screaming to death grunting I don't think is true. Shawn uses a screaming style that uses the top of the throat, yet it able to produce a medium pitched sound. Weyandt uses a gutteral style of screaming, akin to how one would scream in death metal, but he does it at a much higher pitch. This is fairly clear to me as I can scream via both methods. You can see a similar thing with the band Candiria. In their 2nd album, 'Surrealistic Madness' the song Elevate in Madness is sung with a very low gutteral screaming style. However, in their 4th album, 'Process of Self-Development' the same song Elevate in Madness is sung with a much higher pitch, but the style of screaming that the vocalist uses is the same. It's just a different pitch. What do you guys think? Anyone know of of a verifiable source for this information? --Terevos 21:35, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Original research
What's the original research tag for? Dan, the CowMan 16:14, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Page move
to Zao (band) as there is no article for the French band. Support? Oppose? Inhumer (talk) 04:55, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah. I support. --Wick3dd (talk) 21:00, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Anyone else? Inhumer (talk) 19:40, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Just do it. --Wick3dd (talk) 23:48, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I can't, theres a disambiguation page there. Inhumer (talk) 20:14, 11 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Done as per request. Dekimasu よ! 09:24, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Updated Info on Demos
I deleted "1994 - Conflict Demo," since this was incorrect. The "Conflict" demo is the "Sustained Demo." "Conflict" is the first track on this demo, along with "Deep," "Rest," and "Sickness". It was also released in 1995, not 1994. 98.215.166.117 (talk) 16:52, 9 September 2009 (UTC) 9-9-9

Lack of sources and a lot of fan cruft
I removed a lot of the article and an editor requested that I restore it so I did, but I tagged it. It has to be sourced soon because it violates WP:V at the very least and WP:BLP as well. There's on section that has not had any sources sine late 2012 (more than two years). I don't expect any references to be added, but if it does, that's great. Don't forget to read WP:RS and avoid primary sources (social media posts by the band, etc.) but try to use secondary sources by reputable editors.

As for Wikipedia:Fancruft, that's an essay, not even a guideline, but it describes some of the intricacies discussed in the article. It might be the best content to remove whether or not it can be reliably sourced. Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:38, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It's not clear to my why additional material was added to a section that has no references and is tagged as such but no references were added. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:07, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

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Redundancy
In the "Religion" subheading, twice the article states that currently, only bassist Martin Lunn identifies as a Christian. It says this in the first paragraph there, then re-states it in the second as if it is introducing a new point. The two should be consolidated, since they are essentially both making the same point about Zao no longer being a "Christian band." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dartist (talk • contribs) 18:43, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Feel free to fix that. Walter Görlitz (talk) 21:23, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Side project no longer online
Grand National Hustler was a project with Dan Weyandt on drums and vocals, artist Gabe Felice on guitar and Ben Zehner on bass. Used to be listed but not there anymore. A youtube video of their album went up recently. They were a stoner rock band similar to Fu Manchu back in 2001. Cobra Soul was a short lived group formed after Ben left the group, recordings have been found of this recently and should be up soon. 2601:547:B05:B31:14F3:C847:EA1A:9D7D (talk) 15:00, 16 December 2022 (UTC)