Talk:Zaza

Subtle vandalism
Periodically, this article seems to get what appears to me to be subtle vandalism: redirection of links, removal of information. It may be that these changes are actually correct but unexplained: I don't know the topic well enough to distinguish. However, given the pattern, please if you are removing content or redirecting links in this article, please explain either on the discussion page or (if it is really simple) in your change comment. -- Jmabel 17:17, Jul 4, 2004 (UTC)
 * The vandalism has been stepped up, both in frequency and blatancy. Does anyone other than me think this page should be protected? I hesitate to do that unilaterally. -- Jmabel 14:57, Jul 10, 2004 (UTC)

sory what is vandalism? one kurdish facist say Zaza are kurd I´am one Zaza and I´am not kurd and not turk I like not facist poeple and fascismus! --- (posted by User:62.245.207.10 . Sig added by Jmabel 05:22, Jul 15, 2004 (UTC))

OK, I'm new to this issue of page protection. Does anyone have any sense of how it is customary to proceed when a page is protected due to persistent vandalism? I'm guessing that any proposed new content should just be written here to the talk page. How do we then stage it to the article? And do we lift the protection temporarily to stage it, or what? -- Jmabel 17:01, Jul 16, 2004 (UTC)

Hello I have edited this article as the information it contained largely in relation to the kurdishness of the zaza people was insulting to my people, the zazas. user:Avenger

user:Avenger: My guess is that you have a clue on a subject I lack. You seem to feel that the Zaza do not consider it an insult to be called Kurds. I had added that because the page kept getting vandalized (and I do mean vandalized: inappropriately redirecting links, things like that), apparently by one or more ethnic Zazas, who kept objecting to any link between Zaza and Kurds (see an example above, from one of the few to write on the talk page instead of messing with the article). So is there a wide range of views on this among the Zaza, or what? -- Jmabel 00:43, Aug 22, 2004 (UTC)

Hello, the site was'nt vandalised by ethnic zaza people but by those who have a grudge against the kurdish people in general. The turkish authorities now understand that they cant go on denying that kurds are an ethnicity in there own right, due to developments like the iraq war were the usa was allied to kurds (puk and Kdp). So now they claim that people who have always felt that they are kurds are not realy kurds whatsoever. By this they hope to cause fissures in the kurdish move towards independence. E.g they say "your not even a real kurd, so why fight for the kurdish cause". the truth is the kurdish people are not based on a language, as even the mainstream kurdish dialects e.g kurmanci and sorani are quite divergent. The kurdish identity is based on believing your a kurd. e.g there are people in southern kurdistan who are ethnicaly african but who refer to themselves as kurds. for most kurds these people are kurds as they refer to themselves as kurds. Infact rather than considering it an insult to be called a kurd the zaza consider themselves to be the truest repersentaion of the kurds as they have been living in kurdistan and speaking a kurdish dialect for longest out of all the people in the region who call themselves kurds.user:avenger

Sounds reasonable. In any case, you clearly are more knowledgable on the topic than anyone else who has worked on this page. Would you be interested in trying to significantly expand this article and the article Zazaki? If you could cite some references (online or in print, ideally but not necessarily in English), that would be particularly useful. -- Jmabel 03:33, Aug 23, 2004 (UTC)

A bunch of my friends saw this page after seeing the web page www.zaza.ytmnd.com and changed one of the links on the page to meatspin. I say this because some of the vandalism might be young men who have nothing better to do (ie. no life), and don't respect other people's cultures. I hope that I could have been of assistance to you in some way or other, by shedding light upon this issue (particularly the connection between the vandalism and www.zaza.ytmnd.com). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.134.123.158 (talk • contribs) 8 November 2006.
 * I'm sure that most of the vandalism is young men who have nothing better to do. Or don't have the intelligence to perceive that there are better things to do. Now that hubcaps are bolted onto cars… - Jmabel | Talk 21:17, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

The only Vandalism in this whole article is that without Reason all of my shown Sources are deleted by one User.

He did delete all of my sources without any Reason he didn´t even gave a statement about this. Isn´t this Vandalism? how can he delete scientific Sources without Reason. There is no single Source connecting Parthians with Zaza only some Sources pointing out similarities with them. And also the Source he uses (Iranica) is pointing on only that the Zaza are a Iranian People but this Iranian refers to a wider sense and means the linguistic family Group to which also the Kurmanji Kurds belong. Thats why I wrote "the Zaza are a ethnic Kurdish group of Iranian origin " and this is pretty much the Case. You can be Iranian Group and Kurdish as well. Just like you can be a Swedish person of Germanic origin.

And also his Source doesen´t say anything about Zaza being not Kurdish. It even confirms me that they are called Kurds and distinguished from other Kurds. Still they literally are called Kurds and this is the main Point.

See here

"The Armenian term Kʿrder, literally “Kurds"

paragraph three

http://www.iranica.com/articles/dimli

So if you want we could also change the article into, "The Zaza are a ethnic Iranian Group which are referred as Kurds".

He uses a source also pointing out that Zaza are called Kurds by their neighbors and still changes ethnic kurdish Group to "Parthian Group" while in his own source there is no single sentence talking about Zaza being Parthians.

the User Erdemaslancan is from Turkey. I don´t want to claim something against him but if you know the political issues with Kurds and Turkey you can much assume that he only has a political Agenda. otherwise he wouldn´t delete two times, 9 acknowledged sources of linguists and ethnologists by only one Source which is used to be Iranica another Encyclopedia and not a scientific Person.

Here are the points which made me suspicious about "Erdemaslancan"´s intentions.

1. He changes my part of the Text from "ethnic Kurdish" into ethnic Partian. first of all. The Group is called Parthians and not Partian.

2. He deletes all of the Sources I linked to(9 in number) which many of them are scientific and puts one Source against it. One of my Sources is Paul Ludwig whom is one of the main Sources of the whole article. So it is somehow wrong to delete some parts of HIS works while mentioning other parts (like the linguistic part) made by him.

3. He uses this article from Iranica as a Source for his claim Zazas being of Parthian descend while in the whole article there is not one sentence mentioning anything like Zaza being a Parthian Group.

4. Even if Tthe Parthians were their ancestors. Still they would have nothing to do with the recent identity of Zaza because the Parthians are a ancient Group. It makes as much sense as saying "Tuscans are not Italian, they are of Roman origin"

5. That he used a source where there is no mentioning of Zazas being descend from Parthians to make the Zaza look like descend from them, shows me that the only thing he might be after was vandalism. Vandalism usually benefits them. They know that cause usually the Article is closed and they got what they wanted. It is not in his interests to contribute something to Wikipedia otherwise he wouldn´t have simply delete scientific sources and added a source he most probably didn´t even red himself before and only changed one part of the whole article. And this was the kurdish part.

6. Even in his Source there is no mentioning of Zaza being Kurdish or not. Funnily there is one time mentioned that they were called Kurds even if they were distinguished from other Kurds (probably due the language/linguistic) but still they were considered and called Kurds.

7. The Article is about Zaza being a Iranian People. This isn´t wrong but at the same time this doesen´t meant that they aren´t Kurds. Because the Kurdish Group also belongs to the Iranian family. For more details see the Iranian languages article.

The whole thing at least for me seems like this. The User who edited the article just wanted to make Chaos (Vandalism) So the article gets closed.

I gave exactly two sources pointing out that all or at least the majority of Zaza consider themselves as Kurds. Where are your scientific sources showing Zaza do not consider themselves as Kurds or are ethnically not counted as Kurds?

Just for information I did reported you by the Admin User "Erdemaslancan" We see us on the "Administrators' noticeboard/Geopolitical ethnic and religious conflicts" board — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikisupporting (talk • contribs) 21:32, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

zazaki dialect speakers are kurds ! boycot wikipedia!
zazaki dialect speakers are kurds ! boycot wikipedia! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.224.190.79 (talk) 11:40, 29 April 2011 (UTC)