Talk:Zenni Optical

Restoration
In case anyone wonders where this came from. Per request from @Cunard at User_talk:DGG. Star  Mississippi  03:06, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Sourcing
Hi, there are 33 sources in this article. Can you point to any THREE sources you believe meet GNG/NCORP? I can not find a source which meets CORPDEPTH/ORGIND.  HighKing++ 11:49, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Three sources that meet Notability (organizations and companies) and Notability (organizations and companies) are:     Cunard (talk) 05:50, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that. My concern is that most of the references are concerned with the products or the website, not with the company itself (the topic of this article). As to your best THREE:
 * The USA Today is written Madison Durham who is a staff writer for "Partner Content". This does not appear to be Independent Content and instead is a type of affiliate marketing (with commissions earned be the publisher for clicking on links). Despite the clever phrasing that "Recommendations are independently chosen by Reviewed's editors" it does not say that the content itself is independent, nor is there any in-depth information about the company - fails ORGIND and CORPDEPTH.
 * Much the same problems with the syracuse.com reference, which also says they earn commissions for clicking on links. The original here is described as a blog (WP:SPS and she's hardly an "expert") which makes product recommendations. Fails WP:RS and CORPDEPTH.
 * The final reference from clark.com is another "recommendation" site but this one has disclaimers about being independent. It describes the process of ordering glasses on their website - there is no in-depth information about the company, fails CORPDEPTH
 * I'll take a look and see if I can locate any sources but these ones don't meet the criteria for establishing notability of the company in my opinion.  HighKing++ 16:50, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Zenni Optical is an online retailer of prescription glasses. The sources provide in-depth reporting and commentary of Zenni Optical and the prescription glasses it sells. I consider coverage about Zenni Optical's prescription glasses to be coverage about the company itself. From https://reviewed.usatoday.com/about, "How do we make money? ... The products we recommend are based entirely on the editorial team's research and are independent of business decisions." The Reviewed article has negative commentary about Zenni Optical's glasses which strongly supports the source's independence. The Everyday Cheapskate article is a column syndicated by Creators Syndicate (link) that was published in The Post-Standard. The article is not a self-published source. From https://www.creators.com/about, "We syndicate talented and award-winning writers and artists. We edit, sell and distribute their columns and comic strips worldwide." Cunard (talk) 06:12, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I normally agree with your review of sources but I have to dissent here. The USA Today review is still an affiliate-linked post. They receive a commission for these reviews so it is in their best interest to only publish favorable reviews. I actually like the sources but I doubt anyone would consider it meeting WP:ORGCRIT at an AfD discussion. Everything else seems to syndicate from the Cheapskate article. I did a quick look and cannot find anything that I believe would hold up as ORGCRIT which surprises me as I am familiar with the brand and their presence. They just don't seem to have the references to support notability. --CNMall41 (talk) 17:47, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm unable to access this, but wonder if there might be significant enough coverage therein. Not endorsing, but flagging for consideration Star   Mississippi  01:34, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for looking for sources. I accessed the link through The Wikipedia Library. It contains one sentence of coverage about the subject, "The EyeQue business model is only viable because customers can now purchase prescription glasses online from companies such as Zenni Optical, Glasses USA, and EyeBuy Direct." Cunard (talk) 05:16, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for checking. Happy to look at the weekend for more if needed. Star   Mississippi  12:28, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Sources with affiliate links that did independent reviews should not be excluded from establishing notability, especially when they contain negative commentary about the company. Here are two sources that do not include affiliate links: This is the same source I provided above but with Creators Syndicate listed as the publisher instead of The Post-Standard. KNXV-TV is based in Phoenix, Arizona, while Zenni Optical is based in Novato, California, so it is not a local source.</li></ol> Cunard (talk) 05:16, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't disagree, but that is not what I said ("I doubt anyone would consider it meeting WP:ORGCRIT at an AfD discussion" [emphasis added]). You've participated in quite a few of company deletion discussions so you are aware that editors are not likely going to agree with using an affiliate-linked post for notability, especially if that is the one we hang our hat on.--CNMall41 (talk) 05:38, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for clarifying. I have supported retention at AfD using sources that contain affiliate links and hope editors at AfDs would not categorically exclude such sources. In Zenni Optical's case, I have linked two sources that do not use affiliate links to further strengthen the case for notability. Cunard (talk) 06:13, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The main issue with the sources from my POV is that they don't discuss the *company* in any great depth so they fail CORPDEPTH. Discussions about the product or how to order using the website are different (altho related) topics. <b style="font-family: Courier; color: darkgreen;"> HighKing</b>++ 17:46, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I think this is an ongoing/meta issue about whether the Zenni article should be about the company, its products or both and what the best way is to convey the information. I personally feel like the website is one and the same as the company. If this were 20 years ago, we wouldn't be talking about their bulk mailers but because it's all so closely tied together, it's a little more complicated. Just my .02 Star   Mississippi  17:57, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

New Team
can someone add something about this new team, it looks interesting in where they are taking the company: https://www.visionmonday.com/business/retailers/article/zenni-optical-expands-leadership-team-and-forms-new-b2b-platform-zenni-business-to-offer-a-suite-of-eyecare-solutions/ 73.73.99.198 (talk) 21:28, 22 December 2023 (UTC)