Talk:Zero (Mega Man)/Archive 1

History dispute
First, let me get this out of the way: long, unreadable paragraphs are NOT the way to go on Wikipedia. Simple as that; split it up or keep it off of here. Other than that, nowhere in the entire series does it explicitly write out "Wily made Zero". Sillouhettes are strong implications, but, while that does kinda confirm it, nowhere is the fact explicitly stated. As of such, the "strongly implied" term should stay. --Shadow Hog 19:40, 6 November 2005 (UTC)


 * No. Its not just strongly implied. Wily explicitly stated he created Zero. Bass even makes a comment about his "girlyness". Besides that, Many more implications of wily come up constantly in the series. Wily made zero, period. Its simple as that. Why people keep thinking "maybe" he did is pure falsity. As for the pharagrah situation, I make it more readable, but I'm reverting it, ecause for the simple fact, it explains the series more explicitly. - ZeroTalk


 * I've seen the cutscene. Wily never says "Zero" once. Zero isn't explicitly shown, only his sillouhette. It's obvious, but it's not explicitly stated. My point still stands. --Shadow Hog 07:21, 7 November 2005 (UTC)


 * That's not what I meant. If you look at various games such as MMX5, MXX7,etc. this will be proved to you. Besides, in MMX5, Sigma works with Willy to reawaken Zero's "true self" with the Zero/maverick virus. Besides, there's the token(stupid) question: If Wily didn't make him, who did..? That's just stupid, to think that he didn't. And I've spoken with a friend on the Megaman Network who works for Capcom- He's confirmed my statement as well as the abundent evidence; You make it sound like "Well...maybe he was made by Wily, but despite the various (obvious) clues left by Capcom, He might have come from thin air." Pure Nonsense. - ZeroTalk


 * There are a few things wrong with that you're saying:
 * Sigma works with SOMEBODY in X5. It's never said who.
 * Yes, it's pretty apparent Wily made Zero, and anyone with a brain who's played both series could draw the connection. I understand that, but the fact is, they have to draw the connection - it's not ever said, in the script, "Wily makes Zero". Heck, if you've never played the original games, chances are you won't know what the crap's going on with that weird, shadowy man, because, while it's explicitly stated that it's the creator, "Wily" isn't mentioned at any point.
 * As I recall, X7 doesn't touch the plotline. At all.--Shadow Hog 13:56, 7 November 2005 (UTC)


 * There certinly is validness to your point...I propose that I fix up my explanation moe neatly in to pharagraph form, keep the presumption that wily "perhaps" made Zero; how's that for a comprimise...? Surely we can come to a mutual understanding on this issue, as both of our summiries have valid points. And in X7, I meant Zero's dream ending that occurs if you beat Sigma with him- it brings the point of him being a former maverick back to the table, which of course involves wily, him being his creator and all.- ZeroTalk

Wily made Zero, period. Let's review:

-Zero's silhouette is in Power Fighters. And it IS Zero, rip it on your computer and pallette-swap it, you can more clearly see the details of his design. It's actually the post-X2 design, minus the saber.

-You know that "last...of the doctor's creations..." line during Sigma's death in X2? In the japanese script, "the doctor" is "Wi..."

-X4, Wily's silhouette in Zero's dreams.

-During X4's flashback, a W appears on Zero's head when he malfunctions during his battle against Sigma.

-Also in X4, in Zero's ending cutscene, pay attention to his capsule. Both Wily's "W" and Skull insignias can be seen on it.

-In X5's introduction sequence, the text "Wily" is one of the random messages seen in the lower left area of the screen.

-One of X5's bosses is the Shadow Devil, one of Wily's creations. Shadow Devil can also transform into an object that vaguely resembles Skull Castle.

-A blurry image of the "W" insignia appears during the Shadow Devil fight, and before the Rangda Bangda fight. A clearer version of it appears during the battle between X and Zero.

-Sigma's ally in X5 (while all these W's and the Shadow Devil showed up) hates X, is interested in Zero to the point of being considered his father, has appeared in Zero's dreams, and advised Sigma on using the virus to awaken Zero's dormant powers.

Satisfied? Directly stated or not, there are enough points that it is fact. Heck, Power Fighters alone makes it fact.-Hypershell —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.82.113.91 (talk • contribs)


 * YES. Finally, someone who sees the truth. Everyone who plays the game knows that. Now I don't see why we don't change the article to something like: "Wily created him", as Hypershell is right- there's too much edvidence here. That's what I wanted to do to the article, but was tired of arguing about it....so I just left it alone. But I clearly see I was right to begin with, so the article is a' changin'. -MegamanZero


 * God blessed... I never disputed that it was a fact. Stop saying that I'M saying it isn't a fact - I know it is. I'm just sick and tired of having somebody remove all sorts of information from the article, just because they don't like one minor thing like the wording of the statement that Wily made Zero. I know Wily made Zero. The article says "Wily made Zero", pretty much. You're really making a large fuss over nothing, and it's getting very aggravating. --Shadow Hog 02:37, 11 November 2005 (UTC)


 * "Aggravating" or not, I've seen what the new text is on the page, and I can safely say I am content with what's written on there. Thank you for finally changing that tidbit of information, Shadow Hog. Now, I'm wondering, why the HELL did some anon take off my pictures for the form system..? Granted my Proto one was pretty sloppy (I just started learning; gimme a break), but the X form pic was quite good, if I say so myself. Who are all these new anons coming in anyway..? Its been a literal invasion, and they haven't edited anything but Megaman Zero articles. Kinda irksome, but whatever...-ZeroTalk

Shadow Hog, now you are just being a fool, you have no evidence to stand up for what you are saying, while theres a huge list of evidence, heck MegamanZero even has proof from a Capcom member! -Zeldarulah

Zero is not one character, split is needed
Not only is this page itself is way too long as it is, there are way too many instances of zero to have them all in the same page, having one page of em all is like putting Rock X and Megaman.EXE ALL in the same page we have to do something about this.

This is specially true considering *spoiler* neither the zero you play in megaman zero, or the EXE series zero are the same character as X series zero.Cauzilo


 * Sorry, but I'll have to disagree there. Zero in Megaman X and MegamanZero are one in the same. And the page isn't too long; Its simply a line-by-line retufution of all of Zero's attributes, which there are quite a few. Regarding the Zero Exe. situation, you might consider making a seperate article for him, but I think that's streching it-he's not very elaborated on in the series, and the instances he is, he's mentioned in the articles. Also, new comments go at the bottom of the talk page.-ZeroTalk 20:48, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but even so, the humongous paragraph summing up his story is just way too long and dreadful to be any reliable source, besides the visual likeness of X Zero and Rockman Zero is so vastly diferent I think it is confusing to put them on the same page with the same main image. Also, Inafune did not once state that when Zero was going to be the main character he would be "megaman x", he would simply be the character to replace megaman, there is no word wether that'd be "megaman x", and wether or not that matches up to what we currently call "megaman x" is irrelevant, the way it is worded now is misleading and gives the false impresion that Zero was thought up as X's original skin. Cauzilo


 * Then edit away. This is wikipedia, and if you see something wrong,fix it. Beware, however, that this page is watched and edited on mercilessly (espescially by You-know-who), so make sure your edits follow concensus. Have fun! :) -MegamanZero 22:16, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Image
Anyone think the picture at the top of the page should show Zero's original (X series) form, rather than the newer Megaman Zero form? - —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.42.160.71 (talk • contribs)


 * No. Its the most current redition of Zero. Also, I have noticed you have been taking out information from various articles. Please refrain from doing that, and discuss the issue on the talkpage first. Those edits are backed by concensus form various editors and concensus is good. -ZeroTalk 14:38, 12 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I took that out because I figured it was already on the page for the specific Megaman Zero games, and it didn't really belong on a page about the character Zero, as opposed to a page about a specific game. Oh, and I haven't taken anything out of other articles. I've added some, but this is the only page where i've deleted parts.


 * Its an important part of his battle reportoire and is akin to a style change or a variable weapons system. However, you have a point- I'm going to move all these weapons over to List of Mega Man weapons instead. -ZeroTalk 04:02, 14 January 2006 (UTC)