Talk:Zero Escape: Virtue's Last Reward/Archive 1

Retitle?
Since Zero Escape is the series name, and it was retroactively added to 999 in its September 2012 reprinting, one of the two games really needs its page renamed.

Since the Zero Escape is a small logo in the corner of the packaging, I suggest renaming this page to Virtue's Last Reward. This is also supported by the spine of the game box, which does not mention Zero Escape.

What do you guys think? --Powerlord (talk) 05:15, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
 * According to Aksys:
 * " This means that the official names of these two games are as follows:
 * Zero Escape: Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors
 * Zero Escape: Virtue’s Last Reward "
 * So, maybe we should move 999 to its new title, but VLR should remain where it is.--In Donaldismo Veritas (talk) 11:53, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
 * This tidbit sounds like a retcon of the title of 999 which should be mentioned in the lead and Dev section of 999. However, there's no reason to move 999's page because there are printings of the game with no "Zero Escape" branding in the game or on its packaging, so that would confuse first-time readers. The game already exists and has a name, so even if the devs want to change it retroactively, we should keep the original name (of 999) for clarity. "Zero Escape: Virtue's Last Reward" looks to be the correct official title of this game. Axem Titanium (talk) 20:44, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

article to include


I've not played this yet so I won't be doing it myself just yet, but this is definitely something to be included in terms of storywriting and development (and possibly explain the multiple ending gameplay). --M ASEM (t) 16:01, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

another article for inclusion. --M ASEM (t) 15:11, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Lunar eclipse?
This was removed from an eclipse article as trivia, moved here in case anyone wants to verify it and add to the game article. Tom Ruen (talk) 21:49, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
 * The December 2028 lunar eclipse is a major plot point in the video game Virtue's Last Reward, in which the day of the total lunar eclipse was the day in which a virus got out causing a global pandemic where a vast percentage of the Earth's population was wiped out. Some of the puzzles in the game are also based on the December 2028 eclipse, and the event becomes the bases for a number of the game's story elements.

Uh, what is there to verify per say? Yes the lunar eclipse is a major plot point in the game on multiple occasions although it has been a while since I've played. If you are asking to verify if the eclipse will actually happen and is not fiction then check this link out (http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/LEplot/LEplot2001/LE2028Dec31T.pdf) --Cuber456 (talk) 07:53, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

Regarding the screenshot
Might be better to pick one from the escape-the-room segments, as the novel segments aren't any different at all from your average ADV-style VN - currently, the only thing that screenshot shows that couldn't be shown in a free image is the game's artstyle... which is already to some extent shown in the cover art. --IDVtalk 01:10, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Okay, just choose a novel section since I had trouble finding a good escape segment screenshot. How about one of these. http://www.mobygames.com/game/ps-vita/zero-escape-volume-2-virtues-last-reward/screenshots/gameShotId,650011/

http://www.mobygames.com/game/ps-vita/zero-escape-volume-2-virtues-last-reward/screenshots/gameShotId,650019/

http://www.mobygames.com/game/ps-vita/zero-escape-volume-2-virtues-last-reward/screenshots/gameShotId,650032/

http://www.mobygames.com/game/ps-vita/zero-escape-volume-2-virtues-last-reward/screenshots/gameShotId,650039/

http://www.mobygames.com/game/ps-vita/zero-escape-volume-2-virtues-last-reward/screenshots/gameShotId,650042/

http://www.mobygames.com/game/ps-vita/zero-escape-volume-2-virtues-last-reward/screenshots/gameShotId,650054/

I'm not inclined to any of these, so pick which ever suits your fancy. --Famous Hobo 12:09, 7 June 2015

Wait, just notcied the watermark in the corner, probably shouldn't use those, how about these

[|really long link]

[|long link]

Again, which suits your fancy. --Famous Hobo 12:14, 7 June 2015
 * Yeah, looking at my own screenshots, it seems like the game automatically inserts a logo watermark... I did manage to get a pretty good screengrab from a let's play at youtube, though. It's in the article now. --IDVtalk 00:54, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

List of Zero Escape characters
Seeing how the character list in this article, and to a lesser extent the one in the Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors article, takes up a way too big portion of the article, I thought this might be the way to go - the same was done with the Danganronpa series. If anyone's interested in helping out, by making edits, giving suggestions, or sharing useful sources, I've put up a very early version in my sandbox.--IDVtalk 05:38, 8 June 2015 (UTC)


 * I like it, I actually have a picture with all the VLR characters, and was going to put it into the article, but I think that looks nice. I'll help out with that. We could also get a menacing picture of Zero and put it in the opening summary.--Famous Hobo 05:48, 8 June 2015


 * While a picture of Zero undeniably would be a nice addition, I wonder... we would already have two non-free images on the page (of 999 and VLR's respective casts). Would it really be okay to add a third one just for Zero's gas mask? We're supposed to keep these to a minimum. Speaking of which, I'm not sure if it's okay to have a non-free image in a user sandbox... Yes, of course it will eventually be moved to the main article space, but it's very possible that someone will leave a message on your talk page about how the image isn't used in an article.


 * Another thing I was thinking about: What should we do about characters who appear in both games? Right now they're in both the 999 and VLR sections, as a result of me just copying the character lists from the two game articles, and I don't really like it. Do you think a "recurring characters" section would be a good idea?--IDVtalk 02:26, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Regarding the images in the sandbox, if someone asks me to get rid of them, then I'll just move it to the actual game articles for the time being. As for reoccurring characters, I think that's a good idea.

BTW, I'm sure you were already aware of this, but we're going to need A LOT more info on each character for this to make through into an actual article. Even then, I'm worried this article will be rejected because it's not notable enough (other character list articles usually have many games in the series to talk about). But, hey, even if it gets rejected, at least we'll have more info for the character section on each article.--Famous Hobo 11:36, 8 June 2015


 * All right, I might go ahead and make the recurring characters section, then. And yeah, I'm aware that there needs to be more info per character. There is a lot to write about each of them, though, so I don't think it will be a problem. I also don't think it just being a series of two games is anything to worry about - for instance, there's a list of the characters in just the first Persona game.--IDVtalk 07:07, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Possible Review, and question about major game glitch
So it's obvious that this article has seen quite a bit of change over the past few weeks, and it's looking real good so far. I'd like to get it to good article status if possible, but don't worry, there's still quite a bit of stuff that needs to be fixed, particularly the reception section (I'll be looking into that section in the next few days). However, I just wanted to know if it was possible to have other editors look over the article in a peer review fashion. If not, then I can have one of my friends look over the article, since he's an admin here (or at least he says he is, he did a shit ton of work on the ARMA 3 article).

I also had another question, regarding the save corruption bug. I doubt that particular bug would be important enough to include, but I have seen numerous articles talk about issues games have (Arkham Knight for example). There are some references that can be used, but like I said, just wanted to check with you guys.--Famous Hobo 11:56, 7 July 2015
 * Yeah, it's starting to look pretty good. Thanks for putting time and effort into this! Regarding the bug: Do a lot of articles, reviews, etc, mention it? I definitely remember hearing about it back when the game came out, and thus being able to avoid it, but I don't remember how it was treated in media. If it was given media attention, it could probably be worthwhile to add a note about it in the development section. IIRC Aksys actually released an update - at least for the Vita version - that addressed this, so if you do write about the bug, you might want to look that up as well.--IDVtalk 10:20, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Echo the thanks, the article is looking very good now! Regarding the save bug, I believe it got a bit of coverage on release, and when the 3DS version was finally available on the North American eShop some outlets reported on the save bug being fixed. When I get home I'll try to find some relevant info.Jotamide (talk) 16:46, 8 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Found a few articles talking about it, apparently it was only on the 3DS

   

It might be enough to justify a section, since I don't believe they ever did fix it. Unfortunately no reviews mentioned it, or at least from what I read.--Famous Hobo 13:26 8 July 2015 — Preceding undated comment added 20:27, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Huh, guess my memory deceived me. I dunno if it's important enough for its own section, though - you would probably be able to write about it in just a sentence or two, so it could just go under the dev section.--IDVtalk 00:47, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Reassessment
Bumping up to B-class; good job reworking the article! Some ideas for improvement prior to a GAN:
 * That gameplay image is a touch large- it's overwhelming the section
 * The gameplay section isn't very clear on what form the puzzles take, other than that they lead to a safe with passwords. Similarly, the novel section just says that you converse with npcs- is it just a dialogue tree? Do you walk around and talk to people?
 * General note, since you do it in several places- when you have a quote, the ending punctuation goes outside the quote marks unless you are quoting a full sentence. So, John said that "it was good"., not John said that "it was good."
 * There are a number of 1/2-sentence paragraphs in development, promotion, and reception that should be combined into longer paragraphs
 * The article as a whole could use a good copyedit; there are a number of grammatically suspect phrases all throughout it

Thanks for the fast reassesment :) I'll get working on those edits soon, and hopefully bump this up to good article status.--Famous Hobo 10:35, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

German article is good article status
So apparently the German article for this game is good article status, just noticed that. I don't understand any German, and I'm leery of using Google Translate. However, looking through the article, I noticed some interesting stuff, such as marketing, and release dates in other regions. So does anybody know someone who understands German, and is willing to translate the article? --Famous Hobo 17:04, July 26, 2015 (UTC)

So I actually did put it into google translate, and while some grammar was woefully wrong (or at least I assume), I was able to read the article pretty well. In fact, there are only a couple things mentioned in that article that aren't in the English article (yay!). So I guess there's that. --Famous Hobo 22:44 July 26, 2015 (UTC)


 * I can read German pretty well. If there are things that you want double checked let me know! Jotamide (talk) 16:30, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Story section
I think the story section as it stands now is very confusing to someone who has not played the game, especially the last paragraph. It throws a lot of information out that doesn't make sense without context, such as "Zero Sr." and "Akane was wearing K's armor." I think it needs some major rewrites, given that the story is particularly the most notable aspect of the game. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 07:21, 4 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Oh don't worry, I was going to do a massive rewrite for the story section anyway. It really is one of the most important parts of this article, since it is a visual novel after all. By the way, as a side note, where should I incorporate the Famitsu review? Since the game was originally released in Japan, I feel as though it should be mentioned in the review section how the game was received in Japan. But since it's only one Japanese review, plus there really is no real information regarding the review other than the score, I wasn't sure where to put it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Famous Hobo (talk • contribs) 01:39, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I think it should be fine to give Famitsu's score a mention by itself, based on other VG articles like Super Mario 64. But as the reception is now, it's written with specific quotes or consensus in mind rather than the scores, so to integrate it seamlessly the whole section may need a little tweaking. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 03:23, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
 * For video game articles I've worked on at the Swedish Wikipedia, I've just put Famitsu scores in the same paragraph as the Metacritic scores in cases where I don't have any information other than the score itself. So basically, the first paragraph of the reception section would be about scores, and the following ones would be about things reviewers have commented on, etc. I don't know if this is seen as all right at enwp, but I've gotten the svwp article for Shin Megami Tensei to GA, and its reception section is like that.--IDVtalk 07:04, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks for the answers guys, will change the reception area. Also, it's gonna take a while to get used to properly signing my posts--Famous Hobo 20:19, August 5, 2015 — Preceding undated comment added 03:20, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Questions about the story
Since the story is by far the most important part of the game, I want to make sure the story section looks good before nominating the article for GA. However, as you can see, I have a couple questions 1) In the story section, it already mentions the major back story elements of each character (like how Luna is a robot). But should we also mention what actually happens in each major ending? I'm not saying a summary of all 20+ endings, but mention some of the more important stuff, like how it's actually on the moon, which suprisinly isn't mentioned in the story section, or how when Sigma and K are about to die, Sigma takes off K's mask to find out that it's his face. Since each character has their own unique ending, I feel as though it's important to mention, otherwise it'll be glossed over and just thrown in at the end. 2) How should I mention that when the player finishes an ending, the information gathered in that ending doesn't cross over to the next timeline (for example, when Sigma finds out Luna is a robot, he doesn't mention it in the other timelines).

Aside from the story, the only other section that needs working on is the localization, but I found a good article that exclusively talks about the localization process of 999 and Virtue's Last Reward. Also, Godammit, every single time, I forget to sign. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Famous Hobo (talk • contribs) 21:56, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
 * You can first write that Sigma's consciousness loops through Nonary Game and all that, and then mention some, but not all, of the plot points that are revealed - something like "throughout the loops, Sigma learns about X, Y, and Z; at first he forgets what he has experienced in previous loops, but is eventually able to retain information...". I dunno, I really don't like writing plot summaries, and I don't feel I'm very good at it. The plot to VLR is quite unusual because of the relation between story events and story structure, so it's important to describe this clearly.--IDVtalk 00:54, 12 August 2015 (UTC).
 * So after putting this off a lot longer than I would have liked, I'm starting to work more on the story. I'm not the best when it comes to writing story sections, but I think I did a decent job in the opening paragraph. I have it set up where I won't properly introduce all the characters since they have their own section right above it.
 * Also, as a side note, I was thinking about getting rid of the music section of the article. I mean, realistically, it doesn't add much to the article as a whole, it's really short (which has always bothered me) and have of it talks about a separate album the consists of the games songs. Not really important if you ask me. If you guys disagree, I'll be fine with keeping the music section, just seems really short. Famous Hobo (talk) 05:52, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * My only qualm with the opening paragraph in Story is that it's almost a play-by-play of the first few minutes of the game. It's almost a little too detailed, and I think it can be trimmed down. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 06:44, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I've shortened it a bit now, but it still needs to be shorter. I also feel that the plot summary needs to be structured slightly differently. This is how I feel it should look:
 * Paragraph about Sigma getting kidnapped, meeting Phi, escaping the elevator, and meeting the others, and an eplanation of the Nonary Game.
 * Paragraph about how depending on player choices, Sigma might be able to escape, or gets killed or is stuck in the warehouse while someone else escapes, and how the player then gets to explore other choices, and how Sigma at first doesn't remember stuff from previous playthroughs but eventually learns that his mind is jumping through time and is able to retain memories and all that. After this, some of the major plot points that are learned in the various routes are mentioned.
 * Paragraph about how the game ends.
 * About the music... I don't think it needs to be removed entirely, it's still part of the game's development. But we might want to remove the track list and infobox (and its cover) - IIRC, a track list is only necessary in video games if the music has gotten a lot of attention.--IDVtalk 17:02, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Concept art, character design
I've been thinking about the use of the Luna concept art in this aricle for some time now, and I'm not sure if we really need it. Yes, the art is pretty and we all love Luna, but it doesn't really add much... and since the image is non-free, we can't use it without good reasoning. If there had been a bit of text about the (visual) character design I think it could work, but not in the current state of the artice. I can't really find anything about character design, so that's a problem. I do own a copy of the ZE artbook, but I'm not good enough at Japanese to actually read it.--IDVtalk 22:46, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Agreed, the concept art seems merely decorative (and the design depicted doesn't deviate much from the final one), so I'm fine with removing it. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 22:59, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, you guys can get rid of it. It was purely decorative.Famous Hobo (talk) 23:05, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Combining sections
While I was working on the story update, I started to think about the Promotion section. It seems very short compared to the rest of the article. I know this is perfectly acceptable, but given it's content, I don't think it's enough to justify it's own section. I thought of maybe combining the promotion section with the first two paragraphs of the release section (release dates and sales, and glitch). The reception and accolades section would be left untouched. I'd also include info on the trailers (I've seen other Featured articles talk about the trailers) as well as the demo. Now, this is just a thought, and I won't combine the two sections unless you guys think it's okay. Famous Hobo (talk) 06:26, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me.--IDVtalk 06:34, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Peer Review
So as you might have noticed, I put this article up for peer review. The story section has seen quite a few changes recently (thanks again to IDV and Thomas) and looks A LOT better than what was before, but as IDV mentioned, we're really pushing the word limit. Hopefully a peer review will not only check to see if the story section makes sense, but also to see if anything else can be cut, along with more comments towards the rest of the article as a whole. Famous Hobo (talk) 03:10, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

NA VLR website is down
So this is a problem...

Hopefully I'm just overreacting, and the website is undergoing an update (which would be strange since it's a three year old game), but if not, then the refs using that website need to be changed. I don't see this being a problem for the gameplay section, it's the characters and development sections I'm worried about. Since we couldn't archive those sites, they might be gone for good. I mean, we could just simply mention each ref as a dead link, but since I'd like to nominate this for FAC soon (with some support from IDV and ThomasO1989 of course), those dead links will look icky. Also, the GameTrailers Adventure GOTY video is down as well. Any ideas on how to get around them? Famous Hobo (talk) 05:31, 28 December 2015 (UTC)


 * As far as I know, Aksys staff is out of the office until after new year's, but after that we could see if it's gone up again, and if not just ask them. They're not a huge company, and seem approachable - I have asked Karen McOscar and Frank deWindt stuff on occasion on Twitter (also Ben Bateman, but he does not work there anymore), and have received replies. About GT, apparently their videos have gotten new URLs as part of some system change. So basically, just go to GT and search for the video, and update the URL in the article.--IDVtalk 09:48, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Update: I have looked around on GameTrailers, but have not been able to find the video, which is pretty annoying. Regarding the website: It seems it's not just the VLR website - all of Aksys' sites are down. So yeah, I'm confident it'll be back up once people get back after new year's.--IDVtalk 10:07, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

So, with Gametrailers closing down, I don't see this ever being fixed. I tried to find other sites mentioning the GT nomination, but the best I could find was VLR's official website. Do you think this would be okay to use, or should we just remove the bit about GT from the article?

Also... I'm currently working on a Shiren the Wanderer GB2 article, but once I'm done with that, I feel like going back to working on 999 again. Would you be up for that? (it's perfectly fine if you're not.) I think we can use a lot of the information I wrote about in the series article to beef up the development section, and after that there's just the reception section and sourcing for the gameplay section that need work, and those kind of go hand in hand - you look at a review and write down the facts under Gameplay and the opinions under Reception - as well as general copy-editing.--IDVtalk 13:14, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Sorry for late response, just saw this. Anyway, yeah, I'd love to get back to 999 soon. Been working on a lot of other stuff as of lately (even planning on nominating this article for FAC soon), but I don't mind working on 999 simultaneously. The article itself is already in pretty good shape, just need to expand on the reception section, and do so minor fixes here and there (from what I remember, one of the original paragraphs for the gameplay section is still there, and is in desperate need of an update). I'll see what I can do tomorrow.


 * In regards to the GameTrailers video, it may still be lingering around on one of the GameTrailers Youtube channels, since I heard they posted not only there reviews, but also most of their other videos as well (and since this is an End of the Year Award video, I'm sure they would have posted it). If it isn't, then yeah, I'd say remove it, it looks like a small blemish being the only dead link.Famous Hobo (talk) 02:58, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Cool. I had a look at the GT Youtube channel, but couldn't find anything... It's really strange. So yeah, I went ahead and removed it.--IDVtalk 03:34, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Opening Paragraph
Just out of curiosity, why don't we put the Japanese title in footnote b? It seems weird to put the European title in its own footnote, yet leave the Japanese title in the paragraph. This would fix is the long opening sentence. Another thing to add is while I do believe it's necessary to include that the previous game is simply referred to as 999, I feel this could also be put into a footnote, something along the lines of "Reviewers have commonly referred to Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors as simply 999. For simplification, this article will refer to the previous game as 999." Famous Hobo (talk) 21:37, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. I have no objections.--IDVtalk 22:03, 19 January 2016 (UTC)