Talk:Zeta Psi/Archive 1

Most secretive?
It's considered by many scholars to be one of the most secretive Fraternities. --Says whom? I've been curious about this one. Nobody ever provided the citation. --Jeffreyjoh (talk) 08:31, 27 March 2009 (UTC))


 * I remember reading something to this effect in Baird's Manual of fraternities but I don't have a copy to cite from. If you are truly disturbed by it, remove it. However, I have more important things on this page to do. -- metta, The Sunborn  17:06, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

"It impresses upon its members rather more than some like organizations the importance of profound secrecy regarding the society and its affairs" From: "The cyclopædia of fraternities By Albert Clark Stevens" p.364


 * , I think the Baird's reference you mentioned was for Delta Psi (St. Anthony Hall), where the Wikipedia article notes a Baird's quote from 1879, stating "it was the most secretive of the fraternities." Jax MN (talk) 18:49, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Citation Needs
Wikipedia requires citations "for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons" The location of International Headquarters and the identity of the Phi Alpha fit into none of the above therefore citations should not be required for these facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.193.124.77 (talk) 00:09, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Psi Epsilon
I am temporarily removing the (independant) from beside Psi Epsilon. As far as I know they are still recognized by the grand chapter and that is all they need to be in order to be considered a chapter. The part they are independant from is their univeristy. In 2001 there was an incident about the content of the chapter's newsletters. If someone can corroborate that they have had their charter pulled since then, we will removed Psi Epsilon from the list. The list is black and white, a chapter is a chapter or is not. -- 21:44, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Fraternity colour
The fraternity has only one official color, White. This is the fourth time I have removed black and gold from the list. Black and gold are unofficial secondary colors. Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot. -- metta, The Sunborn  18:04, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Chapter list
The main objection to the chapter lists comes from the large amount of external links within them,. Please see relevant discussion at WP:AN. We are coming to a consensus now that chapter lists are fine but massive external links (i.e. one for each chapter) violates Wikipedia policies as it creates a directory. Does the national organization have a webpage for chapter links that could be linked to instead? Please see something like FBLA-PBL where all the state and local chapter links were replaced by 2 links to the national organization's web directories. Metros232 04:04, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't disagree with you at all that the external links to each chapter are differentiable from the list of chapters itself, which seem descriptive. However, I don't know of any Zeta Psi-endorsed directory of the links reproduced here; the best approximations (and they are only that, approximations) are found on individual chapters' sites. While a link to a single external page representing the information embodied in the individual links would be preferable, it does not seem worth destroying this information until and unless a link to such a comprehensive external page can be obtained. I realize this is nonideal, but it is to be hoped that Zeta Psi international will soon remedy this omission. Citizen Sunshine 01:49, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

By the end of this summer, there will be a new official list of chapters on the official Zeta Psi website, which I am charged to update. It has been much too long since an active webmaster was at the helm, so many changes will be made effective this September. Sipsclark 01:07, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Can the new chartering of the Iota Omicron chapter at Oxford University in England be added when it occurs as Zeta Psi becomes the first inter-continental fraternity? This is a very momentous occasion in Zete history. Courtjestr19 03:32, April 19 2008

I added the Iota Omicron chapter at OU to the article within the hour of its chartering. It also appears on the separate chapters list as well. Translostation1 11:20, May 6 2008 —Preceding comment was added at 15:21, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Zeta Chi
Can I get a confirmation that Zeta Chi was actually chartered. As far as I know, it hadn't been and was only a colony. Has someone been re-writing history? -- metta, The Sunborn  16:14, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * As a follow up, zetapsi.org, the official website does not list any Zeta Chi chapter. But this doesn't mean as much as it should. They were petitioning for a charter at the same time as my chapter. We were both turned down because of lack of members, however, we eventually were granted one, and they folded. I conclude that this former colony never was granted charter and hence no official name. I will try to remember to contact a Zete official eventually for confirmation.-- metta, The Sunborn  18:16, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I'll look into this, though I am pretty sure Zeta Chi was never chartered.Sipsclark 10:55, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Zeta Chi was never chartered. You refer to a provisional greek designation to a colony that never acceded nor was admitted to the fraternity. Citizen Sunshine (talk) 07:32, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

New Userbox Available!
Did a little userbox for those users who want to let people know they're Zetes. Check it out and put it up on your page...yeah! Sipsclark 12:42, 17 July 2007 (UTC)\

Neutrality
There is a lack of neutrality in the writing of this article. The first line of the History section clearly illustrates this.Storkpkp (talk) 19:15, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Per Wiki NPOV policy (NPOVD) please follow up or add to your NPOV complaint or lapse the point. Citizen Sunshine (talk) 07:38, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

It is hard to have a neutral article about a men's fraternity that prides itself on its level of secrecy. We are an exclusive band of brothers not a public corporation. If this is not Wiki's policy then so be it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by WJMD (talk • contribs) 14:50, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Vinyard Vines
This company is NOT notable in wikipedia or in real life. Starting this company doesn't make one "famous". The 10-year-old company has 6 stores in 3 states. Sorry brothers, but this is not famous. - metta, The Sunborn  16:13, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

This is, now at least, a notable company. 100 million revenue, 22 stores, 8 outlets and 97 retailers. It is especially noteworthy with its place in the Greek community. CaptainM3T (talk) 21:53, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

NPOV Tag on Article
Proposal for Consensus: What elements of this article are being presented from a non-WP:NPOV perspective, as the article-top NPOV tag states? I'd like to try to fix and improve, but it is difficult to understand what portions of a historical story of the past (as far as I can tell, factual) and lists of the present state of the organization are, e.g., stating opinions or "seriously contested assertions" as facts, employing judgmental language, or failing to "indicate the relative prominence of opposing views." WP:NPOV. I propose, seeking a consensus, that we remove the NPOV label (given the lack of any enunciated justification), pending thoughtful argument by Wiki contributors in the next week. As said, I am delighted to (try to) address any issues raised in that discussion, so we can make this article better. And if consensus is against my proposal regardless of any possible improvements, I defer to that greater wisdom in the end. Citizen Sunshine (talk) 05:22, 2 February 2021 (UTC)


 * I would ask any interested in the issue of the WP:NPOV marker for this page please weigh in. If there is no debate or clarification within another week (after allowing a week and then more in my first message) as to why the tag on the page exists, I intend to eliminate the tag.  I of course would not if there is ongoing meaningful talk here seeking to obtain a consensus. Citizen Sunshine (talk) 09:48, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
 * It might not be the right tag, but the History section, having been copied word-for-word from the Zeta Psi website, is definitely not neutral and definitely not written in an encyclopedic style. It needs to be rewritten entirely, and not by someone who also created Zeta Psi's website for them. In addition, it appears there's a significant conflict-of-interest issue going on here, as you're the author of that text, and the one requesting the tag at the top be removed. You should probably recuse yourself from that particular discussion entirely. Wes sideman (talk) 17:04, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 February 2021
The recent edits by Wes Sideman are improperly cited and do not coincide with the organization's available information and is therefore spreading false information. These edits ought to be reverted, thank you so much. User103214 (talk) 21:25, 2 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Yes check.svg Done. Volteer1 (talk) 04:53, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Famous Zetes tune-up
I divided up the famous zetes into their respective disciplines. Not always a clear call. I also hid some less-than-famous members, they are still on the page, just hidden from view. The less than famous members are as follows:


 * Pat Kash; Inventor of Fresh; Phi Lambda (University of Washington) 1922 I don't know what Fresh is, anyone?
 * Andrew Jones; President of Bruin Alumni Association; Sigma Zeta (UCLA) 2003 President of an alumni association is hardly famous
 * Mitchell Kallick; Former Professional Volleyball Player for Portugal's Clube Desportivo de Povoa. Zeta (NYU) 2002 Is pro volleyball player famous? someone else decide
 * William E. Simon, Jr.; California Gubernatorial Candidate, 2002; Zeta (Williams) Making yourself a candidate does not make one famous on its own, winning the race, would however
 * Evan Shapiro; President, Independent Film Channel and Sundance Channel; Upsilon Mu (University of Massachusetts) President of two arcane cable channels makes one famous?
 * Ian C. Murray; Founder Vineyard Vines, Tau (Lafayette College) 1997 Entrepreneurship is famous only if it turns into a large business

Someone else may disagree, but I made the call and explained why.

-- metta, The Sunborn  23:46, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Inappropriate Sources
Wes sideman please cite sources that reference materials you wish to add to the article. Webster's Primitive Secret Societies is an anthropological exploration of primitive societies' initiation rites and has little to do with American greek letter fraternities. The page you referenced in particular (pg. 171) references African secret societies. As was stated on your talk page, please seek consensus on the article talk page before making further edits to verify your sources. QuietMedian (talk) 22:49, 21 April 2021 (UTC)