Talk:Zhansaya Abdumalik/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Tayi Arajakate (talk · contribs) 12:19, 9 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Hello sportsfan77777, I'll be taking up the review for this article and will present it to you in some time. I hope my feedback will be helpful and that I get to learn something new in the process. Tayi Arajakate  Talk 12:19, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
 * , I have completed the review, it was an interesting read and the prose is really well written. The article however has major issues concerning verifiability, almost every line in the body of the article has inadequate citations, most of the citations used are primary sources like tournament results. The article needs secondary sources that directly discuss, her games, her life, her career, her performance, etc. I have presented this in detail with specific examples in the comments and the assessment table below.
 * If you want I can put this article on hold for the time being, however I will only keep it on hold for week before I either pass or fail it so you would have to fix the issues within the time period. I could also fail it now and you could take your time to fix the issues, and then re-nominate it at a later date. If you have any concerns or questions regarding my review, feel free to express them. Tayi Arajakate  Talk 15:47, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
 * If you want I can put this article on hold for the time being, however I will only keep it on hold for week before I either pass or fail it so you would have to fix the issues within the time period. I could also fail it now and you could take your time to fix the issues, and then re-nominate it at a later date. If you have any concerns or questions regarding my review, feel free to express them. Tayi Arajakate  Talk 15:47, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Comments

 * The edgeKz magazine citation (Ref 1) does not support that she was born Almaty and the date of birth specified. Ref 2 should be cited for this information. Ref 1 also states that her last name is her grand father's first name.
 * Fixed. Good catch on the first name part. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 18:36, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
 * The chess.com citation (Ref 2) does not support that her father taught her chess or that her brother is older. In Ref 1, there is a quote from her where she says that her parents taught her.
 * Fixed. 18:36, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Ref 3 and 4 are the same, both link to an interview on Youtube. I would recommend replacing it with a secondary source.
 * That was an error, fixed the second link. These are the only sources I can find with the information in the article. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 18:36, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
 * The 2010 World Youth Championship and the under-8 girls' World Youth Championship in 2008 being held in their respective locations is not supported by their citations.
 * Fixed the links to include the tournament details. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 18:36, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
 * The section on early life and background should contain information about her early life such as her schooling, beyond just her chess.
 * I would want to include this type of information, but it's not available. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 18:36, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Ref 11 does not support that the tournament she gained her WIM title in an ASEAN+ Age Group Championship and that she won silver in the tournament.
 * Added a link to her website. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 18:36, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
 * "She finished in joint first place at both tournaments, but ended up in second because of the Sonneborn-Berger tiebreak criteria. At the World Championships, she tied with the winner Nomin-Erdene Davaademberel with a score of 9/11, a point ahead of third place." This lacks an inline citation.
 * Added a link to Chess Results. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 18:36, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
 * The ages of the two people she tied with are not supported by the citation which only gives a tournament result.
 * Removed this part. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 18:36, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
 * "Her earliest tournament that counted towards her rating in 2011 was the 2010 World Chess Tour IM tournament in Moscow, where she gained 62 rating points. Although she entered the tournament with a rating of 1870, she scored 5½/12 against much higher-rated opponents, including five draws against five International Masters and a win against Pavel Rozanov, a FIDE Master (FM) rated 2297." This is not supported by the citation (Ref 2).
 * Added a link to her FIDE rating summary for that month. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 18:36, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
 * "A series of large rating jumps culminated in Abdumalik winning her second World Championship title at the end of the year, this time in Brazil in the under-12 girls' division." This needs an inline citation.
 * Added a link to her rating progress chart. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 18:36, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
 * The first paragraph of national representation is entirely cited to tournament results, other than scores the rest is not supported by them. The second paragraph has the same issue with almost the entirety of its material other than scores and ratings not be supported by any citation.
 * Added links to the other sub-pages. (All of the information is from the same link, just on different sub-pages.) Sportsfan77777 (talk) 18:36, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
 * The section on playing style should also use the chess.com citation.
 * The chess.com playing style section is more like the notable games section in this article. It doesn't really describe her general playing score, and instead just summarizes two example games. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 00:51, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
 * The annotations in the section on notable games could cause copyright issues. I would recommend removing them and instead using a summary of the game from a different source, without copy pasting that is.
 * Quotes don't count as copyright issues provided they are identified as such. I can't write my own annotations because that would be WP:OR. Just a general summary of the game would be difficult for even an average reader familiar with chess to understand without being able to click through the moves in the game. (Also, see my comments on the chess.com profile games in the next bullet point.) Sportsfan77777 (talk) 00:51, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
 * The chess.com citation (Ref 2) features two other games of her, maybe these can be included in her notable games?
 * I think it's better to have games that are annotated (i.e. not just a list of moves). The chess.com citation gets away with describing a summary of the game because they have a "graphic" where you can click through all of the moves in the game. We don't have that; we only can show one or two positions from the game. We need to be able to describe the game in more detail (i.e. specific positions at different points in the game) to make up for that. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 00:51, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
 * There is in general an over-reliance on primary sources in general; e.g, Innovation Technical School profile, FIDE profile, Zhansaya Abdumalik profile, tournament results, etc. Consider reducing their usage and instead using secondary sources.
 * In principle, I agree. In practice though, secondary sources on active chess players typically aren't very good and don't contain much information (or simply copy information from primary sources without further interpretation). I think I'm following WP:PRIMARY in the sense that I'm only including statements of objective facts from the primary sources (such as tournament scores, or published FIDE ratings) that cannot be disputed. There is no interpretation of the information from the primary sources. Meanwhile, much of the main information in the article can be found in her chess.com profile, which is a secondary source. Ideally, I would like to include a secondary source for each tournament mentioned, but either (1) they simply write out the same information as the primary source, (2) they just include a copy tables of the scores and standings from the primary source, (3) the tournament includes a large number of players so that the source doesn't end up focusing on Abdumalik, or (4) it's a source that isn't chess-specific and doesn't do a good job of summarizing the tournament, (5) there are no secondary sources available for a particular tournament. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 00:51, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Nonetheless, I'll try to add more secondary sources for particular tournaments. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 00:51, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Note that I have not specifically mentioned issues in 2nd and 3rd subsections of career. Its not because they don't have any but rather that they have same issue and I would end up repeating myself. There are in general large portions of text which have no supporting citations, most of the citations only either partially support it or is just a tournament result/FIDE profile and hence only support her ranking, score or rating.
 * I think most of the information presented is ranking, score, or rating. What types of information did you think needed to be cited by secondary sources beyond that? Sportsfan77777 (talk) 00:51, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the review, ! I added a lot of secondary sources. In practice, it can be hard to find good secondary sources for many tournaments or players who aren't among the game's best, but I tried to include as much as available that would still be useful. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 06:08, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * , I'll take your word regarding the annotations although I would still say that large quotations are potential copyright concerns. Otherwise I have checked the article and from the appearance of it you have more or less resolved the issues concerning primary sources so I'm going to promote this article. Good work on it! Tayi Arajakate  Talk 18:00, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Assessment
 Comprehension: The comprehension is good.

Verifiability: The article is adequately verifiable in its current state.

Comprehensiveness: The article is comprehensive enough.

Neutrality: The article is neutral.

Stability: The article is stable. Illustration: The article is well illustrated.

