Talk:Zine

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Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 05:29, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

General Page Edit Suggestions
The warning banner says the article needs citations and possibly contains original research.

In the intro paragraph, it says “The primary intent of publication is to advance the views of the editor rather than profit” - whereas there are multiple intentions for publication, including to reach/engage in a marginalized group/subculture, to report on a knowledge not spread far, to share the creators art, etc.

Photocopying not cheap or accessible until 1970s or later, earlier zines must have been produced by mimeograph or spirit duplication, looking for a source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mockingfaces (talk • contribs) 12:11, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

'''Overview and Origins ''' states: “The word zine is short for magazine or fanzine, and refers to "self-publications, motivated by a desire for self-expression, not for profit", according to the Barnard Zine Library.[3] The Oxford English Dictionary defines zine exclusively as a shortened form of fanzine.” - this is already stated in the intro paragraph and can be cited rather than exemplified from multiple dictionaries online.

Start the section with “Dissidents and members of socially marginalized groups have published their own opinions in leaflet and pamphlet form for as long as such technology has been available.” Include more info about Author H. P. Lovecraft or take him out?

'''1930s–1960s and science fiction ''' The sentence “George R. R. Martin is also said to have started writing for fanzines, but has been quoted condemning the practice of fans writing stories set in other authors' worlds.” needs a citation - is sort of contradictory and skeptical atm. 1970s and punk

“The DIY aesthetic of the zine also fit nicely with the rough garage sound of punk music itself.” maybe should be more general - about how the DIY aesthetic is echoed parallel in both zine and punk music creation.

Instead of quoting “crucial to the initial circulation of much of the (punk) writing represented” (Sabin, Roger), cite it to the previous sentence: “  Zines became vital to the popularization and spread of punk subcultures.” “By March 1977, zines had spread to countries outside the UK and America, such as Ireland.” - list other countries they were prominent in.

Move this sentence: “Cheap photocopying made it much easier to create fast, economical publications.” To the end of “Although zines have their roots in the science-fiction of the early twentieth century, they experienced a revitalization starting in the 1970s due to the rise of the punk movement and the increasing accessibility to copy machines, publishing software, and home printing technologies.”

'''1990s and riot grrrl/girl zines ''' "superficial, at best, and damagingly counter-productive, at worst," - who said this? Need a citation separate from “Erika Reinstein and May Summer founded the Riot Grrrl Press to serve as a zine distribution network that would allow riot grrrls to "express themselves and reach large audiences without having to rely on the mainstream press" Don’t need to reference Kevin Dunn and May SUmmer Farnsworth - only Erika Reinstein: Zine scholars Kevin Dunn and May Summer Farnsworth use this excerpt of Erika Reinstein's Fantastic Fanzine no. 2 to explain the relationship between politics and media production for girl zinesters:[1] "BECAUSE we girls want to create mediums that speak to US. We are tired of boy band after boy band, boy zine after boy zine, boy punk after boy punk after boy . ..

"BECAUSE in every form of media I see us/myself slapped, decapitated, laughed at, trivialized, pushed, ignored, stereotyped, kicked, scorned, molested, silenced, invalidated, knifed, shot, choked, and killed …

BECAUSE every time we pick up a pen, or an instrument, or get anything done, we are creating the revolution. We ARE the revolution."

— Reinstein, Fantastic Fanzine no. 2 (zine)

Mostly exemplifies zines about victims of violence - maybe add more about the discussion of gender, race, class, sexuality, creating a safe space for female-perceived people to open up about their experiences?

'''Under Libraries ''' Seems redundant

Jenna Freedman, the founder and archivist of the Barnard College Zine collection believes that zines are important because zinesters are "people controlling their own content and style" and also offers voices from "people with radical points of view."

Librarian Julie Bartel of the Salt Lake City Public Library argues that starting or maintaining a zine collection adheres to the American Library Association's Library Bill of Rights and principles of intellectual freedom. Bartel believes that librarians should be placing more of an emphasis on providing a wide array of ideas, regardless where the ideas come from (established publishing houses vs. self-published work) and how they are presented (professionally published books vs. zines).

"The Indie Photobook Library, an independent archive in the Washington, DC area, has a large collection of photobook zines from 2010 to the present." and "In California, the Long Beach Public Library began to be the first public library in the state to start circulating zines for three weeks at a time with a Long Beach Library card in 2015, and also in 2017 the Los Angeles Public Library started to circulate zines publicly to its patrons as well. Both projects have been credited to librarian Ziba Zehdar who has been an advocate in promoting circulating zines publicly at libraries in California." can be added to previous paragraph listing zine libraries.

'''General Changes ''' Many opportunities for linking to other Wiki pages Publishing (including distribution & libraries) should go under distribution/Circulation to conserve space/words The Subcategories of Star Trek and Punk should be placed above, with the different eras to conserve space/words

Threedeezeens (talk) 21:09, 6 April 2018 (UTC) threedeezeens

Pronunciation
How do you pronounce it, "zayn" or "zeen"?

"zayn"

-- What precedent is there for the pronunciation "zayn"...? (Clarification: being a British English speaker I read "zayn" to be equivalent to "zane", but I guess the intention was for "zine" to rhyme with "mine". FTR I see no reason for it not to be the same as (maga)zine, i.e. "zeen").
 * One reason would be that line, mine, sine, nine etc. all rhyme with each other. Through logic one could infer that zine would also rhyme with these words. However, English is often not a logical language... - Quirk 19:39, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

It's zine as in 'magazine' Zine rhymes with seen. Laggard

"ZINE, ZINES are good for your heart. The more you READ the more you're smart the more you're smart the better you feel so read your ZINES after every meal" quote Bradley Adita (in the Daily Iowan) sometime a long time ago Xsxex 05:14, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

"Zeen" as in ma-guh-zeen64.130.204.173 (talk) 17:07, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

"zayn" as in "rain" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.202.78.166 (talk) 02:11, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

"Fanzine"
Zine is not a contraction of "fanzine," it is an abbreviation of magazine. Even though "fanzine" appears in some zine titles, "fanzine" itself is a contraction of "fan magazine." R 07:10, 17 November 2005 (UTC)


 * My understanding of the evolution of the word what that it was contrived by the science-fiction fan community in the 1930s. They began publishing sci-fi fan magazines. This group of forward thinking scientists, mathematicians, lay-people, and artists were quite prone to neologisms. Their published materials became known as fanzines (combining fanatic with magazine). This trend died out some as the more promintent comic books (comic magazines) came into the spotlight in the 1950s. The underground counter-culture publications of the 1960s harkened back to both these movements but added a blatant shout for more consciousness of politcal issues. By the 70s, things were getting played out and the civil rights movement had had its impact and fall out. The mid 70s saw the rise of punk rock which was spurned in large part by the inginuity of its own impresarios such as the personalities behind Punk (magazine) which was one of the first punk zines and gave the punk movement its name. This new york zine was quickly exported to London, England along with the Ramones who catalyzed the British punk rock scene. The punk zine would mutate again in the personality of Aaron Cometbus who became the defacto iconic zinester. A single person who not only published zines, but was in bands, toured the country, made posters, art and performed the job of his own public relations firm. His zine Cometbus became known around the world and his bands Crimpshrine, Pinhead Gunpowder, (and many others) also were weaved into his writing. Cometbus broke new ground as a personal zine, combining diary-like writing with music critique, political rants, art, photography, scene reports, and beyond. The personal zine was most popular in the early and middle 90s during which many youngster picked up pen and paper to create their own publications, (many of which were directly/indirectly inspired by Cometbus) . Maximumrocknroll which began as a radio show in 1978 and in print in 1982 provided a number of people with a monthly platform to spew their wrath about a wide range of topics. One of the most outspoken of these columnist was Ben Weasel who, besides publishing his own zines (Panic Button), was the singer and lead of Screeching Weasel. In many ways the column style format, freedom of expression, and frequent publication predicated many of the attributes of what would become the latest movement in independent publication, the web log or blog. The blog has become another facet in the ever growing toolkit of independent publication which now includes webcams and podcasts. Tying this history together is the need for an individual or a group of individuals to express themselves to each other and to the society at large. So to repeat from the top fanzine is a combination of fan (fanatic) and magazine. Sweet ups! Xsxex 05:35, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


 * What's the source for the assertion that punk zines were "created almost entirely by people who had never heard of fandom"? Even imagining that some early punk zinesters independently invented the concept and the term, at least by 1982 anybody who sent their stuff in to Factsheet Five would certainly have known there were lots of kinds of zines. (And of course there was plenty of rock&roll, politics, sex and drugs in pre-punk fanzines, too, entirely different in style from the punk ones but not necessarily in substance.) Pzriddle 22:22, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

John Brunner?
Factsheet Five (the name came from a short story by John Brunner)...

Which short story by John Brunner? The Factsheet Five page doesn't mention this at all. I've read elsewhere that Gunderloy originally published several "factsheets" on various subjects, so I've always assumed that F5 was named for that reason. Brunner was very prolific, and it would be nice to be able to follow this up without reading everything he ever wrote. Rbean 18:22, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Zine Hall of Fame
My zine Musea, 1992 -, started a Zine Hall of Fame about 10 years ago.This honors some of the best zines from the desktop publishing explosion of the late 80's and 90's, to today. It salutes zines from all over the world, though mostly US zines. It has about 50 inductees nominated over many years. See http://musea.us/fame0.html. The nominating process is open to all. Criteria includes 1. highest quality, and 2. The zine or zinester must have a substantial amount of work published. Tom Hendricks Musea 04:15, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Self-promotion revert
I am about to revert the page to remove the self-promotion through Brett69's addtion of the "Queer Zine" section. SiennaLizard 14:21, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Zine Distro List
wikipedia needs a list of zine distros! should it be on this page? or should there be a seperate page? there are so many distros out there and they definately merit a list. 199.243.154.211 15:47, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

well, at the moment zine distro links to this page, but i can see it also deserving its own page. a list sounds good if you feel like making one, bearing in mind it should not be a list of external links and some people might object (if interested, check out the debate we had about a list of free party sound systems). the distribution section here should be reorganised a bit, i would say libraries are not distributors and deserve their own section. to answer your question, do what you feel, maybe start the list here and if it becomes massive (or if it already is massive) then give it its own page. i can help if needed. cheers Mujinga 17:09, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

thanks for your response. yeah, there are quite a few distros. i'll have to start compiling a list. 199.243.154.211 14:17, 9 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, I got everyone started with the distros I'm aware of and are still operational. Feel free to add to the list. Alanlastufka 16:29, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

No mention of Fantagraphics in Seattle? www.fantagraphics.com

Removed vandalism?
When I googled zines, I got a link to this wikipedia page, but this is what the description said:

Zine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaZines are fucking gay only fucking fags do zines. Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zine". Views. Article · Discussion · Edit this page · History ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zine - 8k - Cached - Similar pages

Is this vanadlism that was removed? How long before it stops showing up on google? Rocketqueen 15:57, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

hey thats weird, i dont know how that can be fixed .... i will try to check it out ... Mujinga 16:18, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

i left a comment on this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents hopefully someone can help us get rid of the homophobic rubbish. Mujinga 16:33, 9 June 2006 (UTC)


 * the vandalism has gone again Mujinga 03:51, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

thanks! Rocketqueen 17:52, 14 June 2006 (UTC)


 * The vandal is a kid in my glass. He's fat and homophobic a rabid yankee's fan and generally an idiot. The IP from my school got banned, and while it means I can't edit wikipedia at school anymore, it's pretty worth it. The motive is his strange obsession with a flagrantly homosexual teacher we had last year who assigned us to create our own zines. --scwizard 23:13, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Removed Links
The links removed by User:JzG were not links to webzines, as they state, they were links to sites that distribute, or otherwise offer resources for zines and zinesters. I think there is a difference and while I don't think the list should have been as long as it was, I think including some of the notable distros should be allowed. And yes, I had a link there for my distro and realize I probably wouldn't be bringing it up otherwise, you don't need to point that out. =) Alanlastufka 16:10, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm trying to add a link to http://zinelibrary.info the biggest online zine collection. I'm also trying to add a link to the Olympia Zine Library http://zinelibrary.blogspot.com. your bot doesn't find these links relevant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.64.243.127 (talk) 02:56, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Tom Dark
Apparently, A blogger with a sense of humour called Tom Dark placed what seems to be like a stand-up comedy monologue in the description of Zine, along with a link to his Blog. Someone should clean that up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.106.214.39 (talk) 20:24, 25 November 2007 (UTC) --Davilvi (talk) 20:28, 25 November 2007 (UTC)


 * It's happened again. TL;DR, chopped. He seems to be pushing the idea that he came up with the word "'zine", but he's going about it the wrong way. -Ashley Pomeroy 16:29, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Absolutely terrible
This article sounds like someone's high school report on "zines." Also, I typically hate WikiPedia nazis that tag every article with "citation needed" and "this article does not cite any sources," but this article DOESN'T cite any sources, and so much is clearly one-sided opinion and assumptions of whoever wrote a majority of it. I'd do something about it, but I'm not into zines or anything so I really don't care one way or the other (to be perfectly honest), just thought I'd throw that out to those of you who DO.Henryrothschild (talk) 09:02, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I kinda have to agree with mr.rothschild - the page makes me falls asleep every time i try to read it. i dont have the time at my disposal right now, but this page def. needs some work (and some references)Mujinga (talk) 02:21, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

It's problematic to expect people to cite sources for an article on something so vague and all-encompassing. I mean, what would you cite? there really aren't any definitive books on zines like there are on other topics. I don't even think zine is listed in the WorldBook Encyclopedia.I hope people will be more open-minded and realize that with some topics, you just have to rely on zinester's personal knowledge, because that's where you'll find the true gems- as with any aspect of obscure indie culture. Please excuse this if it's irrelevant, I am extremely inexperienced with Wikipedia. Ochixay 02:08, 8 February (UTC)

Merge with Alt.Zines
I imported the content from the article alt.zines per the RFD consensus. However, I don't know the proper procedure for cleaning up (removing) the original. So if someone could check my work and finish that up, I would appreciate it muchly. Msalt (talk) 18:18, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Mention the games zine scene?
There is / was a significant branch of zines based around the rationale of postal games, mainly Diplomacy. It started with Graustark, an American zine from (I believe) the 1960's. I was vaguely familiar with the UK scene in the early 80's, but not enough to contribute an article. Mad Policy was an important one; its editor made an attempt to assemble an archive of all Diplomacy zines in one place. Other notable ones were Ode, DibDibDib, Greatest Hits, Gallimaufry Courier (or was it just Courier?), Dolchstoss (a.k.a. "Dullstuff" (smirk)) but there were many, many more. There was considerable overlap between the Dippy zines and the FRP ones, which was a zine scene of its own: Acolyte, Beholder, Dragonlords, Storm Lord, Alarums and Excursions (the latter being an APA) ... it goes on for ever, but vague memory based on anecdotes makes no basis for a wikipedia article. --Matt Westwood 22:06, 3 April 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by WestwoodMatt (talk • contribs)

The US/UK and European postal Diplomacy hobby should be mentioned!
I agree with the above comment, the postal Diplomacy hobby really ought to get a mention on this page. Gallimaufry and Courier were two distinct zines. I believe Courier was the first zine in the British postal Diplomacy hobby, established by Don Turnbull. Richard Sharp who edited Dolchstoss was a notable and controversial figure in the UK hobby. I participated in the UK hobby during the 1980s. Cheers, Jason Finch (jasonpfinch@yahoo.co.uk) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.66.226.95 (talk) 18:54, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

"in soi disant"?
What does "in soi disant perzine" mean? Non-english, bad copy and paste? Bad photocopy? --「ѕʀʟ·✎」 06:49, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I guess it's French and/or a legal term. I added a link and a hyphen, but the sentence still doesn't make grammatical sense to me. --「ѕʀʟ·✎」 06:55, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Rem out unsourced
Section alt.zines has been tagged unsourced since 2009. Note my edit here is marked "minor" by mistake. Slight Smile  17:58, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Definition
I replaced the following speculative history of the word zine based on several self-published sources with more reliably sourced information here. It should be noted that even in an article about zines, self-published works (such as blogs and zines) are not considered reliable sources in most cases – see. —Coconutporkpie (talk) 12:27, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

The exact origins of the word "zine" are uncertain, but it was widely in use in the early 1970s, and most likely is a shortened version of the word magazine, with at least one zine lamenting the abbreviation. The earliest citation known is from 1946, in Startling Stories.

1990s and riot grrrl/girl zines
I tagged the section on 1990s history for cleanup because a lot of concepts are presented without sufficient explanation for a general audience. For example: What are "feminist documents" and what do they document? How does one "enact intimacy"? What do "grassroots texts", "rhetorical tropes", "reclamation and refiguring of femininity", "notions of riot grrrl community", or "sites of feminist practice" mean to the average reader? According to What Wikipedia is not, "A Wikipedia article should not be presented on the assumption that the reader is well versed in the topic's field" and "Texts should be written for everyday readers, not just for academics". Hopefully someone with access to the sources cited can rewrite some of this material in plain English. For the research papers cited, it may not be possible to sufficiently explain the ideas presented without a novel interpretation of primary sources (WP:PRIMARY) – in such cases, it might be better to remove the material entirely and keep only the reliable secondary sources. —Coconutporkpie (talk) 23:55, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Zine library and libraries
Zine library currently redirects to Zine while Zine libraries currently redirects to Self-managed social center. Maybe both "Zine library" and "Zine libraries" should both redirect to Zine#Libraries_and_archives? And maybe Zine#Libraries_and_archives should include link to Infoshop article? (zine doesn't mention infoshop nor Self-managed social center) --EarthFurst (talk) 21:37, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
 * aye it's all a bit of a mess if you have the time to be bold and reorganize it would be cool! happy to give feedback Mujinga (talk) 15:01, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree, I noticed these forwards too. also the Zine section mostly includes zine collections within major institutions and doesn't adequately cover the large number of DIY and autonomous zine libraries Rhagfyr (talk) 20:35, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

zine review category?
Wondering if there could be a category named "Publications with zine reviews" (or similar) including Factsheet Five, Broken Pencil, HeartattaCk, maybe Library Journal (Zinewiki says Library Journal had a zine review column), Maximumrocknroll (still does zine reviews), Punk Planet, Razorcake (still does zine reviews), Slug and Lettuce (fanzine), and Xerography Debt (still publishing). Surprised no Wikipedia page about Xerography Debt. --EarthFurst (talk) 00:22, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Hmmm we could have a look around for similar categories, on first reflection i'm on the fence if that's a useful category or not but then again you've already given over five items so it's possible. Regarding xerodebt if there's enough significant coverage in reliable sources then I'd say go for it! Mujinga (talk) 15:05, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

Current trends and art zines
It looks like the information here fizzles out after the early 2000s, so we're missing out on at least a decade of zine trends. I'm also noticing a lack of information about art / artist zines as well as Queer zines. Perhaps an addition of a section about marginalized groups and zines would work, plus an art zine section. AGuidry57 (talk) 15:06, 6 April 2022 (UTC)