Talk:Ziyaret

= Comments =

Start
I've started the article; it is going to take the work of a lot of people to finish it. This is the sort of thing at which WP excels, so I have high hopes. Please post PD or CC pictures of various shrines, the more the better. Zora 12:52, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Valley of the Saints, Khuldabad India
Hi: Can anyone provide more information about the so-called Valley of the Saints near Khuldabad and Ellora (near Aurangabad, India)? The locals say 1500 or more Sufi saints are buried there. The dargahs I have visited there include Kattar Husseini and Zar Zari Zarbash. They are I believe Sufis of the Chisti order, but I don't have good information on this. In this same area is a hill cave, supposedly the place where Shirdi Sai Baba achieved enlightenment. --Nemonoman 06:26, 22 March 2006 (UTC)


 * We're still just getting this article off the ground. I don't know ANYTHING much -- Deeptrivia may be able to give you some info. Zora 06:50, 22 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Anyway, it's very pleasant article. Thanks to all --Nemonoman 07:33, 22 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I didn't know much about it either, except that Aurangabad has Aurangzeb's tomb, which was built using the few rupees he earned by stitching cloth caps. I've found out more though, and created a stub. So check it out! Cheers :) deeptrivia (talk) 04:12, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

accuracy
This article has a lot of inaccuracies:


 * 1) As I wrote earlier on the Ziyarat talk page, the word "Ziyaret" as a place of pilgrimage, is not widely used. Grammatically the word isnt even correct. (which usually implies a local usage of the word)
 * 2) Ziyaret is not a Persian word. Ziyarat is.
 * 3) Dargah however is a Persian word.
 * 4) Im not sure where this thing about lesser and greater pilgrimages is coming from. I have never heard of it. I suggest you consult other Persian WP editors for confirmation. There is only one word in Persian: Ziyarat. It is both used for Mecca and Imamzadeh pilgrimages. No difference.--Zereshk 03:50, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd want someone to confirm that the same word is used for these pilgrimages OUTSIDE Iran. I have the strong impression that non-Iranian Muslims make a distinction between the Hajj and the "lesser" pilgrimages, of which it takes seven to equal a Hajj.


 * As I understand it, there has been a long history of animosity between the Shi'a and the Sunnis who have ruled the Hijaz, and that for long periods of time the Shi'a were not allowed to perform the Hajj. This meant that pilgramages inside Iran, to places that were safe for Shi'a, were encouraged. Zora 03:58, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

It seems my call for checking of inaccuracy is getting nowhere. I dont really care, and we can let the page be inaccurate, but at least we should omit the Iranian list of places because they are not called "Ziyaret", single or plural. Nobody knows them by this name. They are called "Ziyarat gah", "Haram", or "Imamzadeh". Same for Arabic countries. I doubt if you can find a "Ziyaret" in an Arab country. Certainly not Iran.--Zereshk 23:44, 28 March 2006 (UTC)


 * We're dealing with a concept that has no name in English and various names in various Muslim-majority countries. What we can do is have a table off to one side with a list of names for sites of pilgrimage, by country, for every country that appears on the list of sites. We're also going to merge this article with Ziarat, so Ziyaret will disappear, except as a redirect. Zora 01:45, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Singular or Plural?
While writing lead text for Category:Ziyaret, I was wondering whether the word Ziyaret is singular or plural. If it's singular, what's the plural? Thanks! deeptrivia (talk) 04:17, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
 * The plural in Urdu would be Ziaratein, in Persian perhaps Ziayaraat. peacedove 12:57, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Both can be used. Ive heard of both. But if using for a place-name, "amaakin muqqadaseh" can also be used. Lately, Iranian media have been using the Arabic word "Atabaat mutibarrikah" to refer to places of Ziyarat.


 * Remember, all these words (except for Dargah and Imamzadeh) are Arabic in origin.--Zereshk 21:38, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I just took the easy way out and used "ziyarets" as plural of ziyaret. We add English suffixes to Hindi/Sanskrit nouns in a similar way all the time when we use them in English. If someone has a better idea, please make the change. Thanks! deeptrivia (talk) 21:46, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * hi, "ziyaret" means "visit", and its plural form is "ziyaretler". the word is extensively used in the meaning visit, (noun) (The act of going to see some person or place or thing) but it may also mean a tomb of a holy person in islam. sometimes the tombs of "ermişler" or "erenler" (plurals of "ermiş and "eren", holy person in islam, like a saint in cristianity) are called as ziyaret. however the usage is not common, many people simply dont know this word means also that. the tombs i mentioned are usually called "türbe" (plural form is "türbeler".) (by the way, in the official dictionary of turkish language association (TDK), no data exists for the usage of the word ziyaret as türbe. only türbe exists.) but i should note that in some places like malatya people always use ziyaret, never türbe. in fact, türbe is common just among "alevi" people i think, but im not sure. just for knowledge, use it as you please. byes.. tembelejderha 22:39, 5 April 2006 (UTC)