Talk:Zorpox

This page is unnecessary. What can be said about Zorpox's personality can easily by told in Ron's own page, so I think it would be best to merge it. Maetch 17:22, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * 1) Ron's page is big enough as it is (4000+ words and nearly 40 citations). If a page becomes too large, most users will skim it rather than reading it or, worse still, will hit the search button and jump to a key word or phrase without reading the rest of the page. The more text there is, the less is actually read.
 * 2) Zorpox is a fan favorite, and is the subject of much debate on KP message boards because of the whole "is X down to Ron or Drakken" thing. The amount of chatter that he created makes him highly notable in himself. Notable enough for him to have his own unique page.

perfectblue 20:01, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Some things should be noted before writing down:

The ep never pointed anything about acumulating experiences. Only an evil attitude enhancement. Experience argument should be removed, there is no clue that points to that.

Ron has also shown mechanical skill, "Naked Genius", despite being through a comical way(like most things about him). I think this shoud be added to the article as to justify the why in favour of Ron.

Remember, evil Ron's mechanical skill was said to have been greater than Drakken's, and Drakken himself complained he had never been able to do the things he did. What does this mean? It could mean that this is indeed a natural ability from Ron, because if this was Drakken transfered skill then the magnitude of skill shown in Ron had to be the same as Drakken.

Also, remember that Ron doesn't reflect about things most of the time, he just acts without reflecting, however during the few times he made an effort he shows a much more calculative nature, Twin Factor, Sick Day, Sink or Swin. Obviously he reason why they're so rare it's because of Ron's usual way of acting, yet this doesn't determine or say a thing about one's intelligence and abilities.

Guys, remember this fact, while good, Drakken still showed his usual mechanical skills(fixing the attitudinator and the sonic mixer), which would then indicate that evil just affected the "will" and gave the "focus" that Ron needed to be evil and by focusing, he would then use his skills.

I just think that some detail mentioned here is without fundament, and that this article should present things by also having in mind some realistic logic.

Of course that if we implement some of these points of view, we wouldn't still write that the skill belong to Ron by 100% certainty etc etc, but we would indicate these facts..

Thorius Maximus 04:01, 11 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Please read the last section of the page, it explicitly states that all of these things are heavily debated by fans and that not enough evidence exists in the script to confirm anything.


 * perfectblue 08:10, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't seem you understood my comment.

Look at the short description of the character at the top. It say combined skills and experiences from both Ron and Drakken. Of all in this article, this part isn't justified in any way and there isn't any indication about this in the episode. That's why it should be removed and substituted by a description we are sure to be correct, such as Genius IQ and/or deep tactical mind.

The things is that you are right when the article doesn't say anything about any certanties yet the short description at the top goes against this neutral description because because we should put a short description saying something we are sure of, and that is Genius IQ and possibly another factor.

This article can't have a non neutral point of view, the reader would read a more or less accuarate article because the article is short in proof for both sides and even if one side of the argument has more "indications" than the other, then what's the problem in putitng then? Of course that once again I say that it's just putting these other factors in the article but we wouldn't say anything in the article about a non neutral point of view and the ending of the article would be exactly as it is now.

The objective is that a causal reader will be able to create an opinion of his own will but at lest he will have in mind more or less the cannon indications that exist in the article.

Thorius Maximus 12:47, 11 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry you didn't say that you were only talking about the intro. It's easy enough to change. As for NPOV, this primarily means that we can't elegies or slander Zorpox.


 * perfectblue 13:17, 11 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I've just re-read the page, it doesn't actually say that Zorpox has any of Drakken's skills or abilities. It says that Zorpox has "the accumulated skills and experiences of Ron Stoppable", AND "Doctor Drakken's Villain Factor". The first lot comes from Ron and the second lot comes from Drakken


 * The only mention of having any skills or experience from Drakken comes in the debate section where it clearly says that it is a matter of debate as to whether Ron has any thing beyond Drakken's badness.


 * Interestingly, some EPGs have actually said that Ron received powers/skills from Drakken when he became Zorpox, but they aren't WP:RS so they can't be included.


 * perfectblue 13:24, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, then I think I have indeed misunderstood some things in the text. And yes, if the article is as you say it is, then I am compelled to agree with you.

By the way, and this is just a small clue about the "debates" around the forums. Well, in the largest KP forum in the net, which I am a member of, there isn't practically any debate about if the skills are Ron's or not, practically everyone agree that the intelligence and abilities are his, with the obvious exception of "Drakken fans" etc, etc. Even on casual notes many members use the bad boy episode as an example and proof of Ron's intelligence and talents.

Of course that, this is a wikipedia article, so we won't any of this stuff, it's just a curiosity I'm saying about the "debates" revolving evil Ron/Zorpox. :)

But, couldn't we give a very slight mention about the "naked genius" situation? Just a small note? It's that Ron build that doomsday device(albeit being under a most comical situation) and he wan't evil at that, and there is some logical connection between this and bad boy. The connection is of course the demonstration of his skills.

Concerning "Doctor Drakken's villain Factor", couldn't we simply say "Evil energies"? I think it's more precisse, besides, I don't there ever was an indication in the episode about a "villain factor", it just the evil, plain simple. :)

Other than this, good work with the article, it gives a balanced neutral point of view of things. :)

By the way dude, EPG are in such a way inaccurate that they are to be imediately discarted. So far almost every single summed up version of episodes in EPG were even incorrect even at their basic information(note that all EPG's version about season 4 eps were so far ALL wrong). This has also happened several times before in season 1 2 3 and of course now in season 4, this has been the focus so some criticism saying that there nowadays a no quality online review service.

EPG's are to be simply discarted, they don't count for nothing in my opinion. They're some of the most inaccurate things you'll find on the web. Did you even know that they made mistakes concerning invited voice casts and main voice casts?

Thorius Maximus 15:46, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Please don't think me rude by bulleting things, I'm not being abrupt, it's just easier as you've raised several points


 * 1) According to the infomercial at the expo, the atitudinator removes "good and bad energies", so I guess that I can't complain about ditching "villain factor" in favor of the above. I'll change it.
 * 2) Based on the episode script, there simply isn't enough to WP:V whether or not those skills are Ron's or not (Can't prove they are, can't prove they aren't, so can't do any more than say that there is a debate), and I know of no out of universe information (interviews etc)either.
 * 3) I actually disagree about Naked Genius. but this isn't the place to argue it
 * 4) In relation to the above. From my perspective, everything that happened in that scene from Naked genius was a comic cliche. Which means that it's canonical within the episode (it officially happened) but that it was for the purposes of comic relief so it shouldn't really be counted as proof a skill. It's like in "Exchange" where Rufus becomes invisible. Nobody is seriously attempting to say that he has invisibility powers on his profile page as he's never used the power again. Or even mentioned it.

perfectblue 18:40, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

I understand what you said about Naked Genius, but it all depends on your logic.

If you follow a realistic analysis, in other words, analysing every ep and thinking they are all connected(because the creators sometimes do think of this but mostly on BIG plots), then my argument would make sence.

Yet, if you follow what at least some call "the writers logic", in other words due to the comical basis of the series and it's simplicity of plot, then you disart any realistic thoughts and most things are simply spontaneous, and yes, your example is indeed a good one.

Don't worry, I understand what you mean.

Thorius Maximus 00:34, 12 March 2007 (UTC)


 * As this is a long running series, I think that it's best if we stick as much as possible to things that are consistent throughout the series (such as Mr. Barkin being strict, the Tweebs being hyperactivly annoying to Kim, etc). It's perfectly OK to note down the anomalies, just so long as it is noted that they are out of the ordinary and something that happens maybe once isn't made to sound like it happens every episode. This was one of the reasons why I gave Zorpox his own page. He's a notable anomaly that needs its own explanation.


 * perfectblue 07:31, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Concerning Naked Genius, I agree with you concerning wether if we should associate it with Bad Boy, yet, concerning if that scenne wasn't real proof, I disagree.

In naked genius the main topic is Ron's self confidence concerning himself, more especifically mathematics and his intelligence in general also. During the final part of the ep, they capture him because they think he can build a doomsday device, even during the scennes when kim's thinking what to do she says, "he's not" this shows that there is real focus on this subject, the result in the end is Ron being able to build an armor piercing laser vehicle, which is a doomsday device in many aspects. The creation of this device is an example of Ron's abilities independently of him not believing in himself or not and it is a plot twist exactly on purpose in order to show something "true" about Ron. Of course that this scene was under an entirely comical environment, yet this does not mean anything, remember, since Ron is a comical character, this comical environment will accompany him forever, even in scene where a true example of his abilities is shown. The scene which don't indicate his real abilities is when he does all those crazy moves during missions which are all because of the Ron Factor, which technically is one of his "abilities". The scene in naked genius only appears in one ep, and in the series one ep is like in many aspect a universe of it's own, because in each ep we see characteristic that only appear in that ep, but these characteristic do exist despite only appearing once, but there are exceptions such as that Rufus scene you mentioned because it's full purpose is comical and especially because it's not a main plot "sequence", like the doomsday device sequence. But this is just my opinion on the matter, and don't worry because I won't write it down on the article.

I do understand the why for the "lack" of connection between these two eps. Yet, remember that it all depends on your basic logic, and remember, if you act under a certain basic logic in an article the nyou can't put some detail which would only be justifiable under another basic logic(a more complex one).

Cheers!

Thorius Maximus 14:04, 12 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I've got naked genius somewhere, but I haven't seen it for a while, so I might be wrong, but from what I remember his "doomsday machine" was a complete disaster. It was an uncontrollable pile of bits that just spun around in circles shooting at random. If I didn't know that it would cause an edit war, I'd probably list it down as proof that Ron has no mechanical ability at all. I think, maybe, that that machine is more attributable to the Ron factor than to any genuine skill.


 * My basic logic for anything with an extensive list of episodes is this.


 * 1) The longer that a character is on screen, the more evidence you need to prove anything about them.
 * 2) Things that show up in 1 episode in 100, are outweighed by things that show up in 99 episodes in 100.
 * 3) Something that is done for a cliche plot device, is less relevant than something that isn't.

For example: Point 1. When profiling a character like Kim, you need to look at the entire series and to profile her based on the traits that show up most frequently and most strongly, rather than based on what happened in a single episode. Whereas, with a character like Ned, he's on screen for about 15 minutes total for all 4 series so you can use something that happens for 3 seconds in a single episode because it takes up a higher percentage of his total screen time.

Point 2. Kim is utterly fearless for 99 episodes, but is afraid of giant roaches in 1 episode (Roachie), but that 99 outweighs the 1 so it is what I put in the page. Making her fear of giant roaches a trivia item at best.

Point 3, Throughout the franchise, Disney use several standard plot devices that sometimes cause characters to act differently, or to follow a set path that they would not normally follow (eg, Kim lying in October 31st, or Bonnie working hard in Number One). The really happened, but because they were part of a cliche they should be treated as an exception rather than a rule, and should not be taken too seriously when writing a character profile (the exception to this is when a character is consistently cliche in that area, such as Drakken and his camp villainy and Ron with the Ron factor).

perfectblue 15:09, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

The machine wasn't a disaster, in fact, it did work, it indeed could have been the Ron Factor, however there is no proof of this, and the plot focus directs to the intelligence factor. I don't think it's going that deep in terms of analysis but, if a thing works, which it did with the machine, then it wasn't by change otherwise it's completely irrational. In order to build the machine you must have at least some kind of idea, and them implement it and during the process using your own intuition. A "by chance" hypophosis is most irrational here. The machine worked in terms of what it was designed to, and spining was one of them. Remember, we can't say much about the machine, other than it was made to spin and fire lasers, yes it wasn't perfect and it also started to smoke a little after it stoped, yet it worked, as result this should be considered an example of his ability, besides in Bad Boy(despite both episodes being independent) you see the strongest proof concerning his natural ability with mechanics and nowhere in the series was shown Ron was bad at mechanics, these two were the only occasions we saw. Kim did say Ron wasn't normally good with tools in Bad Boy, but lets be honest, since when was Ron good at something since he never makes an effort and also doesn't focus? One of the possible reasons why Ron's machine did work(although not perfectly, remember, he has no mechanical experience) is that when realised he was between the sword and the wall, and his only way out was if he did something, and in order to make a machine in the ep you must have at least a basic logic concerning the structure of the machine and this isn't by chance. One thing is to have your rockets fired accidentaly and save the day by accident, another is to build a relatively complex machine, with numberless parts and systems, independentely of you having confidence in your self or not, in Ron's case he did not and this is then shown when the machine works because he was very surprised("It works, my doomsday device works!"), he never expected it to work because he doesn't believe he could actually do it. The machine wasn't perfect, but it worked, it's functions were to fire lasers and spin, because a machine does not spin without a speciffic system that makes it spin, at least the way it spinned with Ron's machine was impossible without a system for it. Ron may have had some wacky idea in mind, a machine that spins and fires lasers and in the end he did it, despite not being perfect.

Have in mind just because one thing appears in one ep and not in the other eps, not to mention that in most cases you don't have factors in other eps that contrariate that unique situation. Remember, it may have appeared in one ep, but these are even the only situations we have as examples, and since they are the only examples and there aren't any other situations that contrariate these(with the exception of Kim's coments but this is justifiable by Ron's personality) then it makes it even more difficult to refuse these situations as possible proof. The Ron factor limits itself mostly to the missions, that's when it is indentifiable, yet if you apply the Ron Factor to several cases of Ron's skills, them in the end you can't make it out which are skills and which are not. Remember, the episode had a plot focus, which is Ron intelligence(and as a result his self confidence), in the end there is a twist in order to give some insigt on Ron's abilities and at the same time for him to realise his own abilities and perhaps gain some confidence, which is shown in the final scenne of the episode at Kim's home. The naked genisu scenne has a direct logical and a direct plot connection with the episode main theme, that makes the situation a valid one despite being under a most comical scenne.

Anyway lets end the conversation here. I understand your point of view and you understand mine's.

After you read this coment please delete all our responses, it's because wikipedia "discussion" pages aren't exactly forums. You could also do the same for the other (long)conversations in the Ron page and Kim page.

Cheers!

Thorius Maximus 16:15, 12 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I think that it's best to keep this discussion. We're not discussing the show Ala a forum, we're discussing the logic that we used to write a character profile. It's relevant to the page.


 * perfectblue 10:11, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Understood, well, perhaps eventually these comments will no longer have a reason to exist, then you don't mind deleting all of them sooner of later?

But, the other conversations in the Ron and Kim pages don't have much of a purpose now(and they're very big), perhaps they can already be deleted?

By the way. I still haven't made those small cannon corrections concerning one or another inaccuracy in the Ron page. After I make those corrections you can better organize the text structure from then.

By the way, concerning the image of the potato thrower, Ron's calculations(the drawings) seem to be more than just tragectories. The potato thrower implements prety much almost every section of mechanics of physics, from calculating the force of the string, to the spinning force of the central part and then then the consequential trajectory(not to be confused with mechanical engeneering, that's a different thing).

I mean, if the go as deep as trajectories in physics then perhaps we could put the more accurate statement(in my opinion) of replacing it with mechanics of physics. Its level of complexity is a deep as the current statement.

Just my opinion, and this is not crucial for the article, it's just a small side note.

Thorius Maximus 14:27, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Blue Skin
Could you please link me in to the interview where the guys behind KP discuss Drakken's skin. I haven't come across it. The only references that I know of are an EPG which had a blatantly incorrect description of what was transfered (it basically said that "Drakken possessed Ron's body"), a quote in the episode 9 where Drakken says that he was "blue on the inside", and that bit from Rappin Drakken where he says that he turned blue, but not why. Which doesn't really tell us anything usable.

perfectblue 10:24, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, there has indeed been "a sort of" an official confirmation that the reason for the blue skin was the evil. Yet I can't find it.

I suppose that as long as a link or a reference isn't indicated, then it can't be put.

It went like this. Someone asked one of the producers the why for Drakken's skin and Ron's skin for being blue, their response was that the episode Bad Boy gave the clues for that.

So, where do we stand concerning this? It's that this info may be somewhere around and the article could remain incomplete or outdated without it.

By the way, I have a doubt about the Drakken's behaviour in Ron. It's that, perhaps it would be more accurate to just say it's the steriotypical "mad scientist" behaviour, it's that no indication or clue has been given about this. Take a look more of less at this neutral logic:

Evil energies just affect the behaviour and also in the same way for everyone, the thing is that the only differences would be the already behavioural characteristics that previously existed in the character affected by the evil. In Ron's case it's his previous characteristics but in an "evil/dark" way. The evil alone is "impersonal" if you get my meaning. For instance is Dementor's evil was transfered to Ron, Ron would behave just like evil Ron in Bad Boy.

Any thoughts?

Thorius Maximus 14:25, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok, back to the bullet points (sorry)


 * 1) I've not personally read that interview so I can't really comment on it, but unless we can prove that it exists by linking to it, it basically doesn't exist as far as wikipedia is concerned. Everything needs WP:V to a third party source.
 * 2) "stereotypical "mad scientist" behaviour", ....er..... isn't that basically a description of Drakken? If we don't say that it is from Drakken, doesn't that imply that it was put in by the attitudinator?
 * 3) I've been over the script a dozen times. There's nothing in it anywhere that say what "bad energies" are. They might be the bad childhood memories that make Drakken turn to villainy, a chemical imbalance in him that makes him prone to badness, something metaphysical like "the spirit of Darkness", anything. The point that I'm trying to keep in the page is that because we known nothing, we can't say anything. Until we have some out of universe information (if, indeed, any exists), we really must avoid speculation (as per WP:OR) and stick to what we know for sure (which is that Zorpox is Ron with Drakken's dark side, that he did X and acted Y).

I notice that you're using commonwealth English (funny spellings, pleanty of extra U's, "why for" etc). Does this mean that you're Canadian/British? If so, do you get the same episodes as in the US (any cut/censored), or have things been changed to better suit your culture (EG, putting in British jokes about sex, adding gay characters that aren't allowed in the US, saying lavatory instead of boys room, making characters francophone) Just a thought. I've seen it done before with other countries.

perfectblue 17:05, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh, no no, nothing like that, I think you misunderstood me, well, most likely because I didn't explain things correctly.

Concerning what the "bad/evil energies" are, yes I agree with your theories, I myself have thought of those situation also, in fact my basic(realistic) theory is that the evil is one of the chemical's that the human brain produces under certain social/environmental factors. The other theory(the simplistic one, and the one compatible with the series) it that simply "bad energies" are the semi-scientific/cartoonish representation for evil, a representation that is both spiritual and scientific(a brain produced chemical). Anyway, I agree with your point fo view, there is nothing the series that states any kind of indication or clue. And the fact that Henchco did achieve such a tehcnology perhaps does not give any clues to the true nature because they are using a scientific method to contorl a factor both spiritual and scientific.

These "bad energies" are some of the best examples of cartoonish "irrationality" through justification of realistic interpretations. We simply state we don't know their true nature. And future generations will be tortured by the thought that they will also never know, muhahahaha. :P

Concerning the evil behaviour, it's difficult to examplain, but here goes nothing:

Drakken, shares many(almost all) characteristics of the steriotypical mad scientist, however he also has characteristics that are unique to him, these unique characteristics affect him while good or bad. I think we must say "steriotypical mad scientist characteristics" because of accuracy issues. If we say steriotypical mad scientist characteristics of Drakken's, them we are implying(at least I think so) that there are Drakken's unique characteristics in Ron(which don't seem to be, only the common characteristics of a villain), however there is no indication of Drakken's characteristics in Ron in the episode and at the same time it seems Ron's evil behaviour was entirely shaped by his own characteristics, since all other evil characteristics(dramatic, plot dramaticism, bla bla bla) are common in all villains because they are of the steriotypical mad scientist behaviour. If we use the description I'm suggesting, them we are going for the general description, and we may be more accurate and we are not using detail we are not certain to exist.

Hard to explain.

Oh yes, I do come from a CommomWealth country, it's named Portugal. :P

I think this can be explain because of how my english learning stages were influenced, although I mostly learned a "neutral/standard" english. By the way, I've compared some European version with the U.S. version and I've not seen any of those differences although there may appear one or another joke that's not in the original version. In other cartoons I have indeed seen some "adult jokes" although in Kim Possible never, they seen to maintain themselves faithful to the original, even in direct translation, normally disney shows seem to follow this, yet cartoons that are not made by Disney do someimes seem to change things a little and add one or another "adult joke" or simply different jokes. Dragonball Z is a prime example of this.

Thorius Maximus 20:21, 13 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Ah, are you native Portuguese, or from an ex-pat at Larjes Field etc? I had a couple of Portuguese students last year. They were some of my best.


 * So, would you agree if we said that Zorpox gained mad scientist traits because of his exposure to Drakken's bad energies, but changed it so it didn't imply in any way that he gained the specific traits that made Drakken unique as a mad scientist? I ask because if Ron were to become a villain all on his own, I wouldn't have pictured him becoming a mad scientist type. I think that he would be more of gadget wielding masked avenger or a James Bond type (ala fearless ferret or Job unfair).


 * Getting off topic, I've seen some horrible horrible changes being made to cartoons by US companies (they really do change a lot). One of my favorite Anime they wanted to make appeal more to boys ages 6-11, so they cut out the entire romance sub-plot, then cut the entire first 8 episodes in order to make give a male character who showed up part way through season 1 an equal billing to the female lead, then they changed all most of the character's personalities in order to make them brattier and more like suburban American teenagers (even though they were pre-teen Asian). It was nasty. In another they wouldn't dub the last 1/3 of the series because two of the characters were female homosexuals. They started out by re dubbing them into blood relatives, then they ended the series when they couldn't pull that off any more without cutting huge amounts of footage.


 * Do Kim and Ron still eat fauex Mexican food (nacho, chimerito etc) in the Portuguese version. Food is often one of the first things to change (like Japanese riceballs being dubbed into doughnuts etc).


 * perfectblue 08:27, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

(I'll just pin point the usses in order not to complicate things)

Concerning evil Ron's "bad energies": "So, would you agree if we said that Zorpox gained mad scientist traits because of his exposure to Drakken's bad energies, but changed it so it didn't imply in any way that he gained the specific traits that made Drakken unique as a mad scientist?"

I agree.

Concerning the "Ron becomming al villain all by his own", here it depends on one's opinion. My opinion is based on the is "characteristics" of Ron's personality when he makes an effort or is interested in something, only in these situaions do we see Ron's true abilities and intelligence. His behaviour during these stages is in fact quite similar to "Evil Ron's". in the sence that we see that almost obssessive attention and reflection about all kinds of very speciffic detail and also perfecionism and also thinking ahead(Sink Or Swin is an excellent example of this), that's why I don't think Ron's behaviour is in fact different from "Evil Ron's", with the exception of the characteristics that belong to the steriotypical mad scientist, when evil, Ron's "inate" characteristics come to the surface and completely defined his personality as "Evil Ron", because of the will to act and thus the will to focus the evil gave him.

About the translations in Portuguese: Nope, I don't think there's any critical differences. The descriptions used for Bueno Nacho are the exact same for the U.S. version. But I agree that there should be some differences because of cultural differences, it's only because of an "assimilation" of the cartoon in a country. For instance, in the rapping Drakken Song, there are some different lines, the funny ones.

Technically, the population of Azores(Açores) is portugese native despite not being in continental europe, because it's main(and it composes the very great majority) ancestry is continental portugese, also, the portuguese definition for nacionality is different from those of other countries, it's completely based on the Roman one, while others are on the napoleonic version(in fact the great majority of laws and of the constitution is almost enirely defined by the Roman version in Portugal). One correct description would be Azorean Portugese or Continental Portugese. And I am a continental Portuguese.

You mentioned the word students. Are you a college professor? (because of also being fluent in "vulgar" Chinese, perhaps)(off topic)

Thorius Maximus 14:03, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Vulgar Chinese, ahem, don't you mean simplified Chinese? It's easier to use, plus it's the law that it be taught in Mainland schools (I didn't live in Hong Kong or Taiwan, where they still use traditional Chinese).


 * I'm actually a former college lecturer, I primarily taught western languages and culture, but also taught in summer school (where I had Portuguese students)


 * perfectblue 09:56, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, I wasn't certain what description I should use, because I thought there was a dialect(correct word for this situation right?) that was used by the population in general(or in most parts of mainland China) and that's why I used the word "vulgar", but since you said simplified, then thanks for enlightning me about this topic.

Thorius Maximus 13:52, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Trig
I've taken another look at the Trig that Ron does. The diagrams are basic calculations of trajectory and distance using trig and simple Newtonian physics (force used, mass of projectile, angle fired at = distance traveled etc). It's that stuff you learn in high school where you have to calculate how far a ball weighing X will travel if you fire it at angle Y with Z force. I think that it's called "Exterior ballistics" and it would be within Ron's ability to calculate it even under normal circumstances.

The blacked out sections are impossible to read and so should be treated as being non existent for the purposes of cannon (if we can't tell what they are, then they aren't important to the story). They're probably just calculations. They're could even be cousin shaun's address for all we know.

perfectblue 17:42, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Exactly what I said. He's using Newtonian Physics and other parts of classical mechanics(mechanics of physics). The necessary calculations that should compose the potato thrower are:

Calculation of forces, calculation of speed/aceleration factors, calculation of tragectories, calculation of resistance factors, pressure applied to each part in order for the creation of the necessary impulse, the surface atritre between the two weels, etc.

Newtonian Physics is indeed included in this, but Newtonians Physics isn't the entire classical mechanics section, this list also includes otehr stuff outside Newtonian Physics, yet all this is high school stuff, I learned most of this stuff when I was 12/13 years old.

Actually, what does this tell us? It may actually tell us that this is Ron own intelligence, may. By the way Ron may not have learned it at all(consciously), remember, he even slept during classes but he now seems have become more mature concerning things at school(indications during S3 and S4). Yet, perhaps when he turned evil, the evil literaly turned of his slacker attitude and may have at the same time unloked some of his subconscious behavioural characteristics and perhaps the intelligence he posesses but does not use, that ever since his younger ages it was becoming more and more unused and thus almost reached a position of subconscious nature, this part is actually scientificaly/psychiatrically/neurologically checked. Anyway, this last part is just speculation.

Hey! I noticed something. Ron never called himself Zorpox, nor did any other character, Kim always called him Ron and Drakken and Shego called him the buffon(Drakken called him "your friend" or something like that).

I think Zorpox is fan made name in order for a better identification of the character "Evil Ron".

Thorius Maximus 17:42, 13 March 2007 (UTC)