Talk:Zouhuorumo

Page move required
The "(medicine)" suffix is redundant since there is no disambiguation page. 86.136.110.44 (talk) 23:31, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

I agree the "(medicine)" suffix should be removed from the article title. It should just be "Zou huo ru mo" to follow standard wiki format. CorkyH (talk) 18:44, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Cause of QiGong sickness
VisionAndPsychosis.Net published the cause of this psychiatric complaint. The groups of eyes-open meditating participants are replicating a problem engineers discovered when it caused mental breaks for office workers in 1964. The cubicle was designed to block peripheral vision for concentrating workers to stop believed-harmless episodes of psychotic-like confusion in offices by 1968.

Important to understand, engineers did not cause the problem they created the "special circumstances" which revealed it existed. It has always existed as a normal part of everyone's physiology of sight.

Difficult to conceive on first examination, when the participants concentrate to correctly perform the exercise kata, they can subliminally detect the movements of others in the group.

The subliminal detection of threat-movement in peripheral vision will trigger a vision startle reflex. That breaks concentration and forces a head turn in the direction of the detected movement. When the detected movement is identified as safe in conscious sight it can be ignored. That attaches a zero level of attention to movement in peripheral vision but you can't stop seeing anything in your vision field.

Your brain is still subliminally seeing the movement. That means your brain is still trying to execute the consciously blocked vision startle reflex. These subliminal FAILED attempts to startle are explained and defined in first semester psychology as a visual subliminal distraction. The engineering design problem takes the same name, Subliminal Distraction.

If the mental break it causes is mentioned in psychology lectures on peripheral vision reflexes it is treated as something that happened only once, long ago. My instructor said, "Subliminal sight caused a problem in the early days of modern office design."

In 12 years searching no one in neurology or psychiatry has been able to explain what happens in the brain so that a massive number of subliminal failed attempts to startle causes a mental break. But it has been known to do so since engineers found the problem fifty years ago.

Mental breaks from QiGong and Kundalini Yoga (the same effect in both exercises) have an approximate 3000 year history.

L K Tucker  I own the copyright for VisionAndPsychosis.Net, it is original work in psychology.

108.206.18.197 (talk) 07:56, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Neutrality
This article is generally written with a bias towards a mystical interpretation of qigong disorder according to the theory of qi. This theory, like most aspects of traditional Chinese medicine, is not considered to have a scientific basis. Offering magical and scientific explanations of the phenomenon side by side provides the appearance of neutrality, but is in reality a form of false balance. This should be corrected. Augurar (talk) 06:08, 20 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks Augurar for your interest in this article. I agree that the presentation needs to be refined, in particular to distinguish what is based on "traditional" perspective vs solid health and science sources (though the current article is mostly solid in terms of representing the sources cited). The article needs a significant rewrite (notes, relevant discussion, and references are in the archives Talk:Qigong/Archive_3). I'm not big on framing this as a "dispute" and applying tags, and I am big on rolling up our sleeves and editing. I'm not available for a major rewrite now, but I have done some editing to address the neutrality concerns. Please let me know if this is sufficient to address your concerns, or specifically what else you suggest may be required.  Thanks again. TheProfessor (talk) 19:30, 20 December 2014 (UTC)


 * very uncomfortable with where this is going. this is being treated like a real thing.  it needs to be framed way, way more in terms of "belief" than the objective medical terminology that is currently being deployed here. Jytdog (talk) 19:40, 20 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi Jytdog, thanks for adding your perspective. I think I understand what you are saying, and I think I agree.  I hope this can be remedied with relatively simple qualifiers and shift in emphasis.  I'm pretty limited with ability to contribute now, but I'll see if I can help a bit. TheProfessor (talk) 23:33, 20 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Unless there is further objection, I will remove the POV tag. TheProfessor (talk) 21:19, 21 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Let's wait to remove the POV tag to see if we hear back from Augurar, who placed the tag. Jytdog, could you offer specific edits/direction?  Ideally there would be a more complete treatment of Zou you ru mo with respect to martial arts, perspective on social/political aspects, and solid medical treatment. TheProfessor (talk) 16:02, 22 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Hm, I think you are right that this should not be framed as a dispute. I still think the article needs work, but I am not familiar enough with the subject to do this myself without a substantial amount of research.  Therefore I have changed the template to an "expert needed" template. Augurar (talk) 05:59, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. TheProfessor (talk) 06:09, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Renaming
The title should be one word Zouhuorumo, following WP pinyin romanization. Keahapana (talk) 23:50, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Intro to Psychology
— Assignment last updated by FangtianyuanHu (talk) 00:02, 10 August 2022 (UTC)