Talk:Zune/Archive 6

I've Added in The New Colour Bit.
Why remove a confirmed thing. Seems Weird to me! It should be there. Don't remove it before saying why. Jimmy93211 22:25, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It is fine no problems... gratz to your contribution. But the link you provided has only powdered pink Zune and coming soon arrow.  It didn't say "May" so that is original research (WP:OR).  Plus I personally don't know how crediable ebgames.com is with news.  If you provided a link from Microsoft directly/indirectly or something compelling from a reliable/well established news source (cnn/ny times/cnet/LA times/etc.),  it would be considered worthy in the color section.  To me, it is just speculation, rumor, or hearsay. Getonyourfeet 03:32, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Just to say that microsoft confirmed today that a Pink zune will come out may 1st then a red one may 15th.Jimmy93211 23:53, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Should we add something about the red zune? but also a little off topic: does anyone know if it really is watermelon? i.e.- does it really have a green tint?

Specifications section needs cleanup
This section needs its readability increased because it looks nasty under lynx/elinks textual web browsers, even on Firefox. Also, the section contains esoteric information which may not be an interest to general audience. Having visited other Wikipedia pages using lynx, they look much better.Getonyourfeet 22:09, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

put the disambiguation page back
put the disambiguation page back. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.120.68.121 (talk • contribs) 17:47, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm assuming you're with the AROS community. I wish some of you would stick around long enough to have a useful discussion. See my explanation at Talk:Zune/Archive 1 for why the disambiguation went away. Please don't harm a legitimate articles and talk pages to air your disputes. Dancter 18:00, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I looked at your 'explanation' for removing the disambiguation page. It looks pretty spurious to me. I guess if Microsoft decide to use the name 'Jupiter' for a new product you will jump straight to MS despite Jupiter the planet predating Microsoft by at least 4 Billion years. I guess wikipedia has powerful corporate sponors to look after. Glerant 12:00, 12 April 2007 (GMT)
 * It would've helped if you actually addressed my points directly, rather than impugning my integrity and making straw man arguments. I didn't remove the disambiguation page, nor did I delete the GUI article. It's not a matter of which came first, nor is it about trademark and who owns the name. The god Jupiter predated the planet by a good span of time as well, but for the most part, the planet is the subject most commonly referred to, by a significant margin. This is what determines how articles are disambiguated on Wikipedia, per the guideline formed through consensus. The same applies to Zune. It's not fair, but Microsoft's considerable influence has made their brand the primary meaning of the word Zune for the general public. Anyway, the GUI article has been restored. I've added a disambiguation link. If you want Zune to revert back to a disambiguation page, you can set up a move request. Dancter 20:57, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you for restoring the Zune gui toolkit page.Glerant 16:33, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

zune modifies all your files
Does anyone know how to keep Zune from modifying all your audio files when you listen to them? It messes with the file and changes the "modified" date and adds info to the file. It is keeping track of how many times you play the file. That is a bunch of BS for it to modify a file without warning you first. For people who need a file to match a particular CRC this adding of extra unwanted data breaks the file and fails CRC! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.133.198.240 (talk) 02:20, 7 April 2007 (UTC).

Gee, maybe the modify files with information from the internet option in options would do that. Anyways, why the 'no zunes to connect to frequently' criticism? Which other player has more? Sheesh.

Marketplace info needs to be reworked
The work that went to assembling the marketplace seems lacking... There are alot of questions to be asked... what companies provide content to the marketplace, do independent artist contribute to the marketplace...  I feel that it needs to be expanded a bit for historical context and effort that went into the marketplace as it might go though expansion with DRM free content. The current version just highlights what it can do but ignore the who, where, when, why, how. Getonyourfeet 05:02, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Amazon.com dynamic data is unreliable source
User:71.158.92.118 editor changes paragraph 2 which should only talk about Zune's release week. Now I made it fair to let it slide for today because yes it is verifiable today but not tomorrow. This is why I revered I used reference to older source because they have been syndicated and still exist. And he says it is bullshit, that's biased.

Again the sales data is in chronological order and this order should not be disruptive. April 10, 2007 data is not syndicated and not cached or published by tertiary source. Getonyourfeet 08:51, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Sharing with televisions and AV receivers? I doubt it...

 * Can share "[via USB with], televisions, and AV receivers"?

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but I don't think there are any television or AV receivers that can link to the Zune via USB. No references are given and there's nothing else in the article about this. If I'm wrong, put it back... but with a reference and explanation, please. What is an example of a television receiver that can receive music from a Zune over a USB connection? Dpbsmith (talk) 15:50, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


 * It don't connect though USB... it connects though headphone jack (headphone port)... using an accessory that maps the proprietary arrangement of the tip ring sleeve on one end and uses RCA plug on the other end.Getonyourfeet 16:05, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Hardly seems like a "feature" worth mentioning at all, then, since every mp3 player can do this. Dpbsmith (talk) 16:04, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Apple's "Doubleshot" process, reported as "Technology in Zune"
Apple Wins Patent for Technology in Zune

I think it's appropriate to put this in, given that Design News' entitled the article "Apple Wins Patent for Technology in Zune."

It seems clear that Design News believes the process Apple patented is the process used by Microsoft in the Zune, but they don't quite say this in so many words and they don't give any real source for such a deduction, other than an anonymous blogger who says Apple stole Microsoft's idea. Apple's been shipping the iMac G5 with a clear-over-white layering since August 2004, however, so unless there's some fabulous industrial-espionage story here, that seems unlikely.

I've tried to add a section to the article which says no more than what the patent and Design News actually say.

It's possible that Microsoft is using a different process that gives the same effect, in which Design News needs to issue a retraction, and in this case this wouldn't belong in the article. Dpbsmith (talk) 17:40, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

P. S. Some online forums seems to be suggesting that the process is a case of Apple patenting well-known old stuff and that neither Apple nor Microsoft originated it... Dpbsmith (talk) 17:43, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

P. P. S. Never mind. Parking this here until I or someone can figure out what it's all about. A Google Books search shows a reference to "double shot molding" in a 1945 book. I read Apple's application, but don't know enough (anything!) about plastics to know what it is that they're claiming, and various blog and forum postings convince me that Design News and PMP Today were jumping the gun in saying that Apple had "won" or "got" a patent. I don't know enough about the patent process to know exactly what the patent publication means. Dpbsmith (talk) 17:55, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Doubleshot process
On August 16, 2005, Apple Computer, Inc. (its name at the time) applied for a patent, which was published on March 1st, 2007 by the USPTO as publication number 20070048470, for "Housing of an electronic device formed by doubleshot injection molding." . The patent describes ways of using two sequential injections in an injection-molding fixture to achieve various results, such as increased structural strength. One stated use covered by the patent is:
 * In some cases, injection molding may be used to put decorative features on the outer surfaces of a part. This may be accomplished using a technique called double shot injection molding. In double shot injection molding, the molding process utilizes two injections. One of the injections is used to form the part (as described above for example), and the second injection is used to create an outer layer around some or all of the part (or vice versa). By way of example, double shot injection molding may be used to place a soft layer on top of a hard layer, a transparent layer on top of an opaque layer, or create multicolored layers.

An industrial design trade publication, in a brief news item "Apple Wins Patent for Technology in Zune," stated that the the process "allows the distinctive glowing border effect in Microsoft's Zune player."

1.4 firmware
might be too early, but Microsoft just released a 1.4 upgrade to the Zune. It suggests it upgraded the shuffle ability but i don't see any difference. Just keeping u guys up to date 71.249.35.8 22:27, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

zune still shy of one million?
Several sites, not just Apple ones, say that the Chronicle made an error. The interview says "When we finish our fiscal year in June we'll have sold a little over a million Zunes.". http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/05/28/MICROSOFT.TMP (the actual interview) http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2007/05/million_zunes_n.html http://www.networkworld.com/community/?q=node/15660 http://blogs.business2.com/apple/2007/05/microsofts_zune.html (blog of Business 2.0 magazine) http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/chronicle/

I'd say in this case, blogs are a reliable source. 71.244.44.17 15:59, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Removing speculation section because it is not encyclopedic
Many of the stuff below can be found in a fan site... you can still work off this stuff in the talk page.

Speculation and rumors

Many have speculated on a European release date. Czech Business Weekly claims a scheduled date for "the first half of 2007." UK site Tech.co.uk, in an article dated January 15, 2007, mentioned the Zune is coming to the UK in "two-to-three months." . However, in a product review published in April 2007, UK site PC Pro has indicated that the UK release could be as late as 2008. Although, Steve Ballmer has stated that there is no set timeframe for a European release.

The website ZuneScene.com recently released reports of leaked information about the second revision of the Zune device family, however these rumors were disregarded by many as propaganda.

Chris Stephenson, general manager of global marketing for the Zune project, has also said in an interview with Engadget that some phone functionality is in store for the Zune at a later date. On April 25, 2007, Steve Ballmer went on record saying Microsoft is not interested in building a phone-featured Zune.

At the 2007 Consumer Electronics Show (CES), Bill Gates said little about the Zune; a ZDNet reporter summarized it as "no Zune news", told readers not to expect any new Zune devices soon, and inferred from Gates' remarks that Microsoft will promote the device at its own Zune-specific events. At the same event, however, Peter Moore, vice president of Microsoft's Interactive Entertainment and Devices Division, mentioned that the Zune will support videogames by mid-2008.

More colors such as watermelon red and orange differing in hue from the special edition colors are being added to the Zune line.

A third party is working to port Linux to the Zune.

— 6etonyourfeet\t\c 21:49, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Zune Cracked Screens?

 * There have been multiple reports of the Zune screen cracking from the inside when charged. Mine actually did. Shouldn't we add this to the wiki-page? Clearwaterlab 21:26, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Here is a link to an article about it, we DO need to include it. It's a serious variable. http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/05/more-claims-of-cracked-zune-screens/ Clearwaterlab 19:43, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


 * We do NOT need to include it because it has not been proven to be anything more than an isolated problem. Read the user comments on that article you posted the link to. Half the comments indicate that the cracked screen pictures are either faked or the result of abuse. Please investigate this kind of information before you decide it needs to be included in Wikipedia. This is an encyclopedia, not a source for wild-eyed rumors. 75.33.136.166 05:32, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Well.... you are wrong. This isn't really just isolated. I know ten people at my school alone. Including mine. Clearwaterlab 23:28, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * You know TEN people at your school who have Zunes with cracked screens? With all due respect, I don't even know ten people who have a Zune, much less one with a cracked screen. In any event, you first posted here about the cracked screen problem almost two months ago, and in that time not one single other person has posted here that they are having the same problem. I think that speaks for itself. 75.35.5.73 07:48, 25 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I've had that problem as well. The LCD screen is cracked, the glass cover is not. If you'd like pictures I'd be happy to post them.


 * Attention Mysekurity: Why do you keep removing the section about cracked screens from the Criticisms section? This is a well-documented issue. This page is not meant to be an advertisement for Microsoft Zunes. Please don't attempt to make it one.
 * Because, as the user said above, there is no evidence that this issue is anything more than a few isolated incidents or a hoax. If it were truly widespread, we would have heard more since then, but as it stands, I'm pretty sure it's a hoax. Not only that, but Engadget later disproved this by showing that the battery was not in fact behind the screen (it's at the very bottom, in the back behind the d-pad), so there's no way it could expand and mess up the top of the screen. I think your comment about this page being an advertisement is also quite laughable. See the talk section on the bias of the article for more. - Mysekurity 11:22, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Nah, you are wrong, stop trying to act like god. Here is a link to a google seach page with countless reports: tinyurl.com/2c6575 Also, here is a direct article: tinyurl.com/2dff3m It is not a myth or hoax, stop trying to pretend it is. This is a community website, let it be one. 71.222.68.62 (talk) 22:55, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Zune-marketplace.png
Image:Zune-marketplace.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 11:23, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Possible POV
As far as I know, all Apple products have "Designed by Apple in California" on the back. Why is the "Hello from Seattle" considered similar to that? — Alex(U 12:09, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

I've removed the complete junk of POV related to this... Please continue this thread, if anyone have a problem with this. It's ok to compare with a competitive player in the market, but it should be done in a neutral encyclopedic way. Though there are attributions, it's simply not expected in a neutral encyclopedia... Mugunth 16:56, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

usability by "2.0" users inaccurate
"Web 2.0 users find that a lack of podcast support..." what has web 2.0 got to with podcasts ?

the wikipedia web 2.0 entry even states "Some technology experts, notably Tim Berners-Lee, have questioned whether one can use the term in a meaningful way, since many of the technology components of "Web 2.0" have existed since the early days of the Web"

I think the term non-factual fits nicely

217.37.246.129 14:15, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Zune supports podcasts. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.40.63.13 (talk • contribs).

Criticism for lack of other wireless Zune users
The lack of other Zune users sharing songs wirelessly should be removed from the Criticism section. The ability to find other users to share music with is obviously dependent on the number of people who own the Zune; Microsoft cannot magically provide other people for you to share music with. My point is, this is something that is completely out of the control of the team designing the Zune, so how can you criticize them for it? Ridiculous. 75.33.136.166 07:15, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Market Share
Hey according to Zuneboards.com the Zune now has a 11% market share, as of May. --Elven6 15:57, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Zune 2
what info is there for the v.2 version of the zune —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.161.193.61 (talk) 23:02, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Nothing official has been announced yet, but there is much speculation from members of the Tech press. - Mysekurity 04:32, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it's time to add Zune 2-related information now that it was announced. --NetRolller 3D  22:07, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Team Section
The "Team" section's encyclopedic merits are dubious at best. I removed the obvious absurdities regarding the, no doubt quite amusing to the employees involved, 'Zune Teapot'; the entire section could stand to go as well. 70.124.79.217 08:53, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Wikiscanner confirms that the anon user who added the section in the first place is from a Microsoft IP range. 70.124.79.217 08:57, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * No it didn't. The user who added the section was logged in, and is thus incapable of being tracked with Wikiscanner. I checked over the the article, and IIRC, the only suspicious edit since the section was added came from someone in Washington, who was connecting through Comcast (and thus likely a Microsoftie editing from home). - Mysekurity 01:56, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * My mistake. Some gentle, anonymous soul deleted the entire section soon after it was added, and the IP in question (131.107.0.73) re-added it, which I mistook as the original post. I don't think this was a Comcast user in Washington State, as a tracert resolves the IP unambiguously to tide503.microsoft.com. If you go to the user page for this IP, it says right at the top that it's attributed to Microsoft, and there are a bevy of warnings of all types below it. The logged in user who made the initial post, Clinton Fowler, is a program manager for the Xbox and a personal friend of J Allard. Google "Clinton Fowler Microsoft" for research. The anonymous Microsoft employee even mentions him by name in the section in a later edit. 70.124.79.217 07:57, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Gotcha. But if my almost-two years here at WP (and use of WikiScanner) have taught me anything, it's that people whose usernames resemble a name aren't necessarily that person, and IPs that look to be originating from a place may not have anything to do with that company. I'm not saying that these users aren't MS employees--they probably are--just that it doesn't matter. Everyone writes with a bias, and Wikipedia's job is to sort that out and make it useful. As it stands now, the Team section is not useful and contains Original Research. So yes, it should be gutted or deleted. But my main qualm is that the rest of the article is so blatantly anti-Zune (bashing it for things competitor's articles fail to mention), that this human interest piece, irrelevant as it is, is the only thing that keeps the article neutral, and that, I believe is the Greater Good. - Mysekurity 06:51, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * You seem to get one thing wrong. Even if these edits did not originate from Microsoft computers, they are non-encyclopedic in style and scope as well as irrelevant to the topic, and therefore should be deleted. While the team section could be important if it concerned people who had major influence in designing/developing Zune, it only deals with those involved in product marketing and the Zune Marketplace, as well as Microsoft corporate culture in the second sub-section. None of these provide information about the Zune itself, none of these alleviate any possible bias (I did not check whether this bias exists) in the other sections, none of these belong into this article (and I'd doubt they did for any other article). We achieve no neutrality by filling the article up with nonsense. Don Cuan 17:00, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Good call. Consider it done. - Mysekurity 18:04, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

video media files
I downloaded Zune to share media with my 360... Basically I wanted to display my Full Metal Alchemist shows through my tv without having to use an S-Video cable. For some reason though Zune will not read the Div-X files. Does anyone know a way around this or a free conversion program? 206.229.18.66 15:12, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Try using Windows Media Player. It's basically the same software with a different interface and more codec support. Windows Media Player 11 also features the Share with Xbox 360 feature, and will play all of your DivX-encoded files. The Zune device itself doesn't support anything other than wmv, and the Zune software needs to re-encode all videos to the right format. Hope this helps. - Mysekurity 21:35, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Template conversion
From Infobox PMP to Information appliance. Both templates contain the same queries, with the latter suppling more to facilitate a broader range of devices. No data from this article was removed.

By the way, Infobox PMP is being considered for deletion. -- Jw21 / PenaltyKillah (discuss•edits) 02:31, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Started Specifications section improvement
I have started to improve the specifications section -- I am adding a comparison table of the four different models. Right now, I've commented the old stuff out, but it is still there. If someone would like to add some of that stuff back in following that format, that would be great, otherwise I will be getting to that in the very near future. (I need to go to bed now so I can't do the rest)

If someone does add more stuff to the table, could you please get rid of the reference notes? It's almost impossible to understand the code, and in the article that huge list is insane! I think something should be done about that.

I'll be adding more tomorrow (or I guess it would be today). Imperator3733 05:48, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Halo 3 themed Zune
Should the Halo 3 themed Zune be added to the Zune of the Zune 30 as a "color" in the table? 198.239.152.71 18:06, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Done. Good idea. Imperator3733  —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 23:02, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

New Zune Pics Deleted?
why were the pictures of the new Zune 30, 80, 4, and 8 taken off? --Mpfterd 14:47, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Not sure, but I notice people are adding fair use images of the Zune instead of using free ones, so I put a free one there. They are always better than promotional images. If you want to add a picture of a new model that hasn't been released, just wait until it is. A new model does not justify using a fair use image when a free one of a slightly older model is available. -- ReyBrujo 21:59, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * There is a fair use image of the new Zune line available. The justification for using a free image over a fair use one only applies when the free image provides the same information as the fair use image. Since it does not (there are only free images of the Zune 30), the fair use image is justified. I have also added this explanation to the fair use image's page since it was up for deletion (again, there is no free image to replace it, so it should not be deleted). Charles 15:34, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Since the product hasn't yet been launched, and this article focuses on the already released item instead of the future ones, I don't think fair use can be claimed. -- ReyBrujo 00:02, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The article focuses on the entire Zune product line. Charles 01:15, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * As you say, if it focuses on the entire Zune product line, any image of the product line is useful there. -- ReyBrujo 03:58, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * That is just awful logic. If it focuses on the entire line, and there is an image of the entire line, we should use that image, regardless of it's current status as being incorrectly marked as replaceable. I've said it before, the images of the new Zune line are NOT replaceable because it is essentially impossible to get one as it has not been released yet. Wait a few weeks until it is released, THEN delete the non-free image. We have a responsibility to provide as much correct information as possible, not to delete a useful image because there AREN'T better options. Charles 04:22, 22 October 2007 (UTC)